Cleverly & Anderson

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Ramshock, May 7, 2012.

  1. May 7, 2012
    #81

    Bape Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2007
    Messages:
    2,912
    We need a new midfielder regardless. If Carrick's injured we're fecked. Our midfield problem has been apparent for quite a number of years now, I don't understand why we haven't addressed it yet.
  2. May 7, 2012
    #82

    surf Full Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2007
    Messages:
    4,732
    Location:
    In the wilderness
    We should not pin too many hopes on either for next season. Both are injury prone. Cleverley is still just a squad player and Anderson may not even be that by the end of the transfer window.
  3. May 7, 2012
    #83

    Theon Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    9,513
    Yeah got to agree with this. It's a very strange situation we are in because so many of our centre midfielders have question marks over them. We aren't even in a position where we can write some of them off as shit, or be confident that others are good enough to last the season, Carrick aside. There is potential issues with everyone else though,

    Fletcher - very serious illness, might return to playing football but doubtful he'll be as effective as he was previously, certainly in his first season anyway

    Giggs - Some pretty awful performances in centre mid. Personally I wouldn't play him there ever again in a must win game or against tough opposition. Others might feel differently though.

    Scholes - Incredible half season, but considering he retired last year theres a big chance he will again. Even if he stays can he last a season? How many game can we expect him to play?

    Anderson - The definition of inconsistent and seems to be injured constantly. Has bags of potential but been here 5 years now and seems to have stagnated. I'm a big fan so would happily give him a few more years, but still wouldn't trust him to be an intergral part of our midfield for next season due to his capacity to go on a bad run of form or get himself injured. If we rely on him too much I can see it coming back to hurt us.

    Cleverly - Looked good, but a lot still to prove and only played 15 games. Didn't quite get the hype that others did, and like Anderson wouldn't want him to be one of our main two in the middle. I'd have him behind Anderson personally.

    Pogba - Might stay, might go. If he stays will only be a bit-part player.

    Carrick - The only guaranteed performer in the middle next season, needs a partner badly though as he cant do it on his own.

    Personally, I think Scholes will retire again and that Fletcher won't return to full fitness next year. Giggs I don't want to see in the middle. So that leaves Carrick starting with one of Anderson and Cleverly. If those two stay fit then that's a good enough partnership against all but the best sides and will give valuable experience to Clev and Anderson. But whether they stay fit is doubtful, so I think we definitely need to sign another player.
  4. May 7, 2012
    #84

    pocco loco

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    7,820
    Location:
    Keep a clean shit tomorrow, United is my final bus
    I agree with the above, it's a bit of a predicament really and I think it can only be solved with some bold decisions on Fergie's part.
  5. May 7, 2012
    #85

    Sylar Full Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Messages:
    4,556
    Ive enjoyed seeing us play the most this season with Ando/Cleverley partnership in the middle.
  6. May 7, 2012
    #86

    ghaliboy Snitches on Tom Hagen

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2009
    Messages:
    10,698
    Location:
    Sydchester
    :lol: haters be hating on Anderson!

    [​IMG]
  7. May 8, 2012
    #87

    The Don Metrosexual Candy Shagger

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    9,896
    Location:
    ♛ Goodbye spasmochild :(
    No, he has had a good few injuries but he has been left out a fair few times too. SAF likes to rotate players and use different types of players for different types of opposition, but with players like Anderson, Nani and a few others taking them out of the team when they are in form seems to knock their confidence and sets them back a bit. They catch is the only way to rid them of this lack of confidence is to keep them in the side continuously.
  8. May 8, 2012
    #88

    Stack Leave Pep Guardiola alone!!!

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    3,483
    Location:
    Auckland New Zealand
    Only injury prevented Cleverly having a big season. His talent is clear for everyone to see and if he can sort out the injury things he is going to be a big player for us in the future. Dont quite understand how you cant see his potential. I cant wait to see him in the middle for us on a consistent basis.


    Pogba is by all accounts gone to juve but if he did stay he wouldnt be a bit part player, he is one extremely talented young player, again i dont understand how you cant see it.

  9. May 8, 2012
    #89

    ghaliboy Snitches on Tom Hagen

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2009
    Messages:
    10,698
    Location:
    Sydchester
    I don't think that Cleverley is a good combination for Carrick. Carrick is far to static and sits way too deep spraying the ball around. That's why he works so well with Scholes as Scholes lack of mobility allows him to sit deeper and his insane accuracy and passing range allows him to be viable even adding 10yards to nearly all of his passes to make up for that.

    I think Cleverly needs a much more mobile player inside him than Scholes or Carrick.
  10. May 8, 2012
    #90

    roseguy64 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    2,373
    Location:
    Jamaica
    I just figure we'll not loan out Pogba and use him as a squad player if he stays. Whether he stays or not doesn't make much difference to us signing a midfielder but figured I'd throw him in since he's likely going to be a first teamer next season.

    Yes we need a midfielder but is it really out of the realm of possibility that if we don't get rid of anyone that Fergie will stick with them and give it another go?
  11. May 8, 2012
    #91

    manutddjw Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2010
    Messages:
    1,975
    Location:
    Canada
    Their partnership had its faults, but considering they had never played together in a competitive match before, they did great together and they have the potential to be even better. Unfotunately, both are injury prone (Anderson more so) and for that reason shouldn't be thought of as anything more than squad players and certainly not the players that will solve our midfield problems.

    While I think Anderson has shown signs of improvement in his overall game, I think it is now reasonable to call him injury prone. History keeps repeating itself in regards to injuries with Anderson, like it has with Hargreaves, Owen and probably Jack Wilshere. You just know he's going to get injured somehow.
  12. May 8, 2012
    #92

    ghaliboy Snitches on Tom Hagen

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2009
    Messages:
    10,698
    Location:
    Sydchester
    Either way in the next two or three seasons, Scholes, Giggs, Fletcher have to be replaced. An understudy for Carrick needs to be groomed as Carrick will be gone/declined in five or six.

    Fletch for me is gone. You can't come back from UC that shit is devastating. He'll never get anywhere near the 2009 form he showed imo.
  13. May 8, 2012
    #93

    Theon Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    9,513
    Get a grip for feck sake. Pogba 'wouldn't be a bit part player', you are talking absolute bollocks. He hasn't started a game for us all year, despite Scholes not being here in the first 6 months, Fletcher being ill all season, Anderson being injured for large parts and Cleverly being injured too. Surely such an integral member of the squad should have started a game in these circumstances? :lol: What a joke.

    As for Clev where did I say he didn't have potential? I don't understand how you've miscomprehended what I wrote to such a degree. Read what I said, it says 'looked good but still alot to prove', which is a completely realistic view to hold and says nothing about his potential.

    He's started 5 league games for us, so you need to get realistic and lessen those expectations. He's got potential but he's largely unproven and isn't a guaranteed starter by any means.

    So next season do you think we should line up with Pogba and Clev as the midfield two?
  14. May 8, 2012
    #94

    mlclauhk Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    502
    Location:
    In the Pacific Islands
    If history has proven anything its that these two are too injury prone and inconsistent to rely on.

    We are in dire need of quality in midfield, which is something we have to address if we don't want to fall further behind next year.
  15. May 8, 2012
    #95

    gooDevil Worst scout ever

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2008
    Messages:
    18,776
    Location:
    The Kids are the Future
    Sorry to nitpick but could someone chance the thread title to spell Cleverley's name right?

    It will certainly be interesting to see what SAF decides, if he thought Cleverley and Anderson were good enough at the beginning of the season I'd expect he'll be of the same mind again.

    But we certainly need cover, someone to cover for Scholes, even if he stays another year or two, and someone to cover Fletcher. Though I would like to see Jones play as a defensive midfielder, the position he played the most last season for Venky's and drew much praise for.

    We may well see Tunnicliffe added to the squad, I think he has every chance to make the same leap into the first team as Cleverley. Add in one fantastic creative midfielder and I'd say we're in great shape.
  16. May 8, 2012
    #96

    Stack Leave Pep Guardiola alone!!!

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    3,483
    Location:
    Auckland New Zealand
    No but thats not the point you silly little muppet.

    Pogba has a huge career ahead of him and if you cant see that you should maybe go watch rugby. Pogba is a huge loss, it makes all the angst over Ravel Morrison look silly, Pogba is twice the player Morrison will ever be.

    If Pogba stayed I could see him playing half of the seasons games which certainly isnt a bit part. he is that good, if he hadnt got injured recently we would have seen him get a couple more games as sub. His short amount of time on the pitch showed he would slip into the side with ease and be a major contributor. Did you even bother to fecking watch his cameos?

    Cleverly could easily sit alongside Carrick as first choice cm's next season, his impact at the beginning of the season was really obvious. He is mobile but also circulates the ball quickly.

    You know what, its probably best you go follow rugby.
  17. May 8, 2012
    #97

    Ash_G Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    6,436
    Wow you must have seen a lot more from Pogba than I did. Can't see how he's going to play anywhere near half our games next season considering it seems that without us trying to show him he will get games here he might not of got the games he did. Talented no doubt but considering fergie has opted not to play him thus season when he could have, even put jones in there ahead of him tells me he might not be as ready as you think.

    Clev started brightly but we've not seen enough of him to conclusively say. Look at Ando's start and then form drop. Same thing happened to jones. Again plenty of talent but we've got to see how he does it over a full season. Personally I hope we bring in a midfielder who's good enough to go straight in and then the likes if clev Nd Pogba can fight for a spot.
  18. May 8, 2012
    #98

    Adebesi Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2006
    Messages:
    10,476
    Location:
    Sanctity, like a cat, abhors filth.
    I think you're getting a bit carried away Stack. If Pogba does stay I think we can reasonably predict he will not be starting half our games.
  19. May 8, 2012
    #99

    Cina Jimmy Lumsden (Moderator)

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    36,193
    I never said this. Why must people insist on putting words in my mouth?

    I never said we couldn't rely on Scholes or Giggs, I just pointed out the worries behind being reliant on them, due to Giggs form this season and Scholes form before he retired. Of course age is important for feck sake, a 24 year old can still get better and get rid of their injuries, 37/38 year olds will inevitably play less and less and get worse and worse. That's no slight on 2 great legends, that's fact. I mean one of them actually retired at the end of last season because he thought he couldn't hack it anymore.

    The Fletcher and Anderson situations are nothing alike, at all. Fletcher was never even really injury prone as a player. It was just a total freak occurrence.

    I do not want to be reliant on any of them next season, it'll be worth keeping them all around to have in the midfield, that's all. Don't make up shit.
  20. May 8, 2012

    Zen86 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2007
    Messages:
    7,389
    Location:
    That's the joke.
    I've lost hope on Anderson, doesn't seem to have the drive.
  21. May 8, 2012

    Jinn Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,311
    Location:
    Schmeichel - define a great player: “It is a play
    Fact is, we can't rely on any of our midfielders - all have problems actually.

    Clev&Ando -
    Injury prone, hopefully they won't be next season, but can we rely on hope?

    Scholes&Giggs -
    Age is a factor, they obviously cannot play everygame. Should be used sparingly and generally kept fresh for the big matches. At least that's how i think this season would have panned out if Clev& Ando were fit.

    Pogba -
    If he stays, would be a great addition - too young and inexperienced to be playing full time, especially when you think of the high pressure matches we usually play.

    Carrick -
    Fantastic form this season, but only really gets going in and around Dec. When on form he is great, when he's not...well history has shown us that he has one of the lowest bottom levels.

    So, we need another midfielder to compliment whichever of the current midfielders are fit or going through their monthly cycle.
  22. May 8, 2012

    Rossa Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2011
    Messages:
    3,310
    Location:
    Looking over my shoulder.
    This really turned into a great Cleverley & Anderson thread. No, wait...

    Cleverley and Anderson, imo, would be great in a 4-3-3 or a 4-1-2-3 as they are great going forwards, but they need a more defensively sound partner in the middle too. What I like about them is that both are great at short passing, both are quick, Anderson especially so, and they link up well with the attack. I hope neither are sold.

    That said, they would both be great with Carrick in a 3 on the midfield, but what if Carrick is injured? Could Jones play there, Scholes, Tunnicliffe or Pogba?
  23. May 8, 2012

    adam118 Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2008
    Messages:
    3,587
    Location:
    Stockport
    I think Cleverley has a great future here. Everytime Fergie talks about him he brings up his vision and football brain.
  24. May 8, 2012

    Theon Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    9,513
    You need to calm down mate. Just because you’re nigh on illiterate and can’t comprehend a simple post doesn’t mean you can act the wanker when it gets pointed out. I was only trying to help you understand buddy.

    Pogba might have a huge career ahead of him... what’s your point? I never said he didn’t. You are making things up again like in your last post with Cleverley. I said he wouldn’t play more than a bit part role in the team next year, yet somehow you equate that with not having a successful career over the next 15 years. It is very strange how you just jump to your own conclusions, instead of simply reading the words on the screen. You seem like a very confused person.

    Do you gauge how many appearances players will make in the 2012/2013 campaign, on how big you anticipate their careers will be? That is the only explanation I can think off which makes sense of your second sentence. What is the relevance on Pogba’s future career on how many games he will play next season? We have lots of youngsters at the club with big futures ahead of them, but that doesn’t mean they will play in the first team next season for feck sake. They will play when they are ready, which is the same for Pogba.

    It is funny that you should compare him to Morrison when they were regarded as similar talents when they were at the club. Morrison has played 15 minutes of football since leaving and doesn’t have a chance of playing half of West Hams games next season, but you think Pogba will play half of the games for Man Utd :lol:. Okay.

    Half the games lol. So lets just consider the league games, there is 38 in a season and assuming we play 4-4-2 that means there is 76 starting places for centre midfield.

    Pogba – you think he will play half so that is 19.
    Carrick – Always plays around 30, coming of his best season so 30 is a fair estimate.
    Giggs and Scholes – Started 26 games between them this year, possibility that one will retire, so a very conservative estimate is 8 games.

    That leaves 19 games for Anderson, Cleverley, Fletcher, Jones in midfield and the more than possible midfield signing. Seems.... plausible?

    Seems fecking deluded more like. Cleverley, Anderson, Fletcher, Jones are all ahead of Pogba, ignore a new signing for arguments sake.You are clearly out of your mind if you think they will each play less than Pogba.

    There is less than feck all evidence to support what you are saying, ‘ooo he made a pretty standard cameo when we were 4-0 up against Wolves, he will usurp Cleverley and Anderson for places in the team’. If he was so good and ready to make such an instant impact then he would have started a game this year, we’ve had a tonne of injuries in the middle, so much so that we had to bring Scholes out of retirement, yet he wasn't even close to starting.
  25. May 8, 2012

    Rossa Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2011
    Messages:
    3,310
    Location:
    Looking over my shoulder.
    Theon: You sure are good with the adjectives ;)
  26. May 8, 2012

    tintedsepia Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,330
    Well I've always been a staunch advocate of Anderson.

    However after this season (not to criticise him as he did well when he played) I think you have to be concerned by his injury record and the fact that in the 5 years he's been here he has yet to amass 20% of the games we've played (apart from maybe one season).

    We're in the situation with him that you cannot rely on building a team around him. So let's move on!
  27. May 8, 2012

    Walrus Oppressed White Male

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2008
    Messages:
    5,185
    Just a pointer - Carrick has had a good season but there have been plenty of others where he hasn't been that good himself. He is the best of a bad bunch at the moment (sounds harsher than its meant) but its not like he is a world beater himself.
  28. May 8, 2012

    adexkola American Arse

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    15,679
    Location:
    Tristate. In the street like a hooker's feet
    You wonder if Scholes will be able to repeat his form for an entire season (including domestic cups and Europe). Giggs has been awful. If we want to start afresh with the central midfield, I wouldn't mind seeing both of them retiring in exchange for bringing other players in, at least one starter.

    Anderson will be given one more chance to prove himself. I think his performances early in the season warrant another chance. Cleverley has been very good for us, but valid points have been made concerning how open we are when both play for us. Either way, they'll be staying.

    I've not seen Pogba much, but he shouldn't be in any conversation about our midfield for now. IMO. Fletcher is most likely done after his condition, which is a damn shame.
  29. May 8, 2012

    Adebesi Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2006
    Messages:
    10,476
    Location:
    Sanctity, like a cat, abhors filth.
    I bet Giggs would have benefited from 6 months off as well. In retrospect it would have been good to send Giggs on holiday for the rest of the season when Scholes came back. Then at the start of next season he could come back fresh and Scholes could sit it out. They could do half a season each for a couple of years. They could even share a shirt, with Schiggs on the back. Or Goles.
  30. May 8, 2012

    tintedsepia Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,330
    It was rumoured on here that SAF didn't see the need to buy a CM. Not sure if that was actually true.

    Theon forgot about adding Park who I think has to leave now and never did understand offering him a new contract after the CL final against Barcelona last year (not just because of the final, mind).

    With Morrison and Pogba going/gone and we also lost Hargreaves don't forget unless Januzaj, Tunnicliffe or Petrucci is ready to step up (I don't believe SAF thinks they are as mentioned Petrucci going out on loan so he'll be at least another season), Tunnicliffe was dispensible at Peterborough and Januzah is probably a few years off yet I find it inconceivable that we won't buy another CM.
  31. May 9, 2012

    Theon Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    9,513
    Yeah I agree about Scholes and Giggs, I think Scholes will definitely retire and I wish Giggs would to be honest, but I think he has already signed a new extension... Not completely sure though.

    Yeah truly awful for Fletch, such a professional player and seems a really decent guy. Seeing as so much of his game was based on fitness you have to wonder if he'll come back the same player at all. Puts us in a pretty shit position because apart from Carrick, Fletcher is our only defensively minded centre mid. Like you referred to when you said Clev and Anderson can't really play together, we need at least one midfielder who is defensively minded otherwise as you say, we are too open. If Carrick is injured then who do we have? Fletch was our only other option and he's unlikely to come back the same player.

    That's why I think we need to sign a defensively solid midfielder, obviously Martinez is everyones favourite pick, but I wouldn't mind someone like Fellaini if Martinez didn't work out.

    Say we signed Fellaini for arguments sake then as our first choice that leaves us with,

    Attack minded - Anderson, Cleverley, Giggs
    Defensive - Carrick, Fellaini, Jones

    To me that looks alright to be honest. In the easier games against weaker teams we would go with a defensive/attacking pair, so Carrick/Anderson for example, or Fellaini/Cleverley. Then in the big games we could go defensive/defensive and so be tight at the back without compromising our tendency to play two striker and two wingers. So, Carrick/Fellaini in the big games against City's powerful midfield for example. It's not perfect, but it would do IMO, and if we managed to get Martinez it would be a great midfield pairing for the big games.
  32. May 9, 2012

    Ash_G Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    6,436
    Fellaini is a decent shout and in the mould we're hopefully looking for, would prefer someone who's a bit more refined though. He's experienced though and that is a good thing. As much as getting young players and developing them is cool I think we need another face in midfield who has quality and experience but is also in their physical peak.
  33. May 9, 2012

    GCHQ Glazer Crevice Headquarters

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Messages:
    4,028
    Location:
    Sir Alex Ferguson, Ben Foster, Hayley McQueen.....
    That's putting it mildly. Talk about giving up space between the lines. It was embarrassing.
  34. May 9, 2012

    Cina Jimmy Lumsden (Moderator)

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    36,193
    Theon is probably right. For all our talk of Martinez and co, Fergie is probably much more likely to go for a player like Fellaini. Though Fellaini is a bit of a twat, can't imagine us wanting him.
  35. May 9, 2012

    RedSky At Night Matt Smith's sinister twin

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    29,136
    Location:
    Nottingham Forest (Soccermanager)
    The three premiership fixtures which had the famous Clev/Ando partnership:

    Code:
    [B]West Brom        1 : 2        United[/B]
    
    16               [B]Shots[/B]        11
    3               [B]On Goal[/B]       1
    19               [B]Fouls[/B]        11
    41%           [B]Possession[/B]      59%
    
    [B]Defense:[/B] Vidic, Rio, Smalling, Fabio
    
    Code:
    [B]United           3 : 0        Spurs[/B]
    
    28               [B]Shots[/B]        21
    14              [B]On Goal[/B]       9
    13               [B]Fouls[/B]        9
    53%           [B]Possession[/B]      47%
    
    [B]Defense:[/B] Evans, Jones, Evra, Smalling
    
    Code:
    [B]United           8 : 2        Arsenal[/B]
    
    25               [B]Shots[/B]        20
    14              [B]On Goal[/B]       8
    9                [B]Fouls[/B]        8
    56%           [B]Possession[/B]      44%
    
    [B]Defense:[/B] Evans, Jones, Evra, Smalling
    
    I won't count the Bolton game considering Clev came off after 7 minutes with his injury. So we played 3 premiership fixtures with the Ando/Clev partnership. De Gea at error with the West Brom goal, but played very well against Arsenal.

    The worrying trend of allowing the opposition to have over 15 shots in each game is concerning, but we were playing a starting 11 which were unsettled and had several new faces. Either way, we still managed to have the better possession and won 2 difficult home fixtures scoring 11 and only letting in 2.

    The stats do point that the combination is a little too attacking minded. However, with a settled keeper at the back and a defense looking much stronger i'd wager they'd keep it tighter at the back.
  36. May 9, 2012

    Amir Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2000
    Messages:
    19,101
    Location:
    Rehovot, Israel
    I'd wager there's no way they'd stay fit for more than a few games.
  37. May 9, 2012

    RedSky At Night Matt Smith's sinister twin

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    29,136
    Location:
    Nottingham Forest (Soccermanager)
    Which of course is the other main problem with Clev/Ando. To be the first choice midfield partnership they have to play a significant amount of games together. Neither have proven they can do that.

    We'll spend this summer on CM/AM's i'm sure of it. We have too, theres simply no option.
  38. May 9, 2012

    Smores Full Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    7,528
    Location:
    Dark side of the moon
    I'd rather take Sandro from spurs. With Harry preferring Parker I think we could get him for a decent price as well.
  39. May 9, 2012

    Ash_G Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    6,436
    I wouldn't say no to him but as I said I'd prefer someone a bit holder who is a bit more developed and experienced.
  40. May 9, 2012

    FreakyJim Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    4,358
    Location:
    SolarX
    Couple of things:

    - Arsenal were without their midfield and defence against us
    - Tottenham were without their first choice or even second choice midfield, they started with Livermore and Krancjar if I recall correctly

    Anderson and Cleverley aren't really tested against proper opposition. Until they manage to string more than a couple of games together we won't really know whether they can cope.

Share This Page