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Contact lost with Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777.

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Nick 0208 Ldn, Mar 8, 2014.

  1. Mar 10, 2014

    hungrywing Full Member

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    Heh. I was just wracking my brain trying to remember who it was that was an air traffic controller on here.

    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
  2. Mar 10, 2014

    pauldyson1uk Full Member

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    This is one of the best posts I have seen on Redcafe, very informative and answered quite a few questions,
  3. Mar 10, 2014

    Baxter Full Member

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    That's the thing about the AF crash. The pilots put the plane into a stall and it was descending for 2-3 minutes before hitting the water. Must've have been absolutely awful for the passengers and crew.
  4. Mar 11, 2014

    lem8sh Full Member

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    Amazed no-one has latched onto the fact that this particular plane had an accident before.
  5. Mar 11, 2014

    Sky1981 Fending off the urge

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    IMHO, the plane somehow landed slowly (not to break the plane) and sunk into the ocean (terrible tragedy), hence there's no debris on impact, probably communication / engine / electrical malfunction that jams all the radar / communique

    It's kinda hard if the plane has already sunk into the bottom of the ocean, specially if they sunk intact (which is possible i there's a leakage in the cabin, with water coming in. (I'm not a techie, but surely that's physics 101?)

    very scarry, but IMO an alien / hijacking / bombing / bermuda triangle is too far fetched
  6. Mar 11, 2014

    Anderson's Cat AC

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    That plane is at the bottom of the ocean and we'll wake up one morning this week to news that parts of it have been found.
  7. Mar 11, 2014

    Anderson's Cat AC

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    Just reading reports that family members have been getting ring tones as they try contact some of the passengers. Strange!
  8. Mar 11, 2014

    Dracula Full Member

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    Not really.

    When you turn off your phone you also send a message to the network that you have left. So all calls will go to voicemail. if you leave your phone on and leave the network (I.e leave through vacating the network range) then usually you will hear a few rings before going to voicemail. All it means is that people didn't turn off their phones when told to do so.
  9. Mar 11, 2014

    swooshboy Full Member

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    Do you have a link to that?

    That is strange. They've increased the search area and it now covers land...so not sure if the fact that phones are ringing suggest the plane came down on land??
  10. Mar 11, 2014

    swooshboy Full Member

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    Fair enough.
  11. Mar 11, 2014

    Anderson's Cat AC

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  12. Mar 11, 2014

    Getsme Full Member

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    Pilot suicide has to be a possible reason.
  13. Mar 11, 2014

    Edgar Allan Pillow Was AFC, likes them hypoallergenic - no feathers

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    This is presicely my point. Why is such a low identification radius still acceptable when the case of flying over large oceans and mountain chains are so common? The main point of having a transponder is to identify and when it is inefficient in cases where we need it (i.e flying over isolated regions) it is useless.
  14. Mar 11, 2014

    Stretch Full Member

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    I think most people will only accept this theory when it comes from a cellular network company. That's never happened my case and I often forget to switch off my phone when travelling. My better half says she knows when I'm flying since it goes straight to voicemail or gives a network dialing tone.
  15. Mar 11, 2014

    Dracula Full Member

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    But also, if the phones were in any way 'on' or able to receive transmission it would be extremely easy for cell companies to triangulate the position. It would literally take a matter of minutes to do.

    The point is, people think its 'interesting' that they were able to get a ring tone. End of the day there are reasons for this which arent suspicious. If people had survived and phones were on there is no way there would be no info about it.
  16. Mar 11, 2014

    Dracula Full Member

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    As a side note, it seems to me there is a lot of info that is not been divulged. There are a number of tracking/info data tracking for thia type of aircraft. Roles Royce will have data transmitted regarding their engine performance, the plane will transmit ACARS data (like a remote 'black box' info) and Boeing will have seperate data sent to them regarding aircraft performance. Thats three seperate companies (RR, Boeing, Malaysian Air) that should have data on what was happening to the aircraft up to the point that it no longer transmitted this info. My understanding is that it would be difficult to 'turn off' this data as its not so simple as turning off the aircraft's transponder.

    with AF447, this info was on the internet within 2 days. Interesting that it is not here. Im certain the terrorism angle is a red herring, the passports, the iranians etc are just a coincidence. There was a crash a few years ago (think the adam air one) which had nothing to do with terrorism yet there were 12 fake/stolen passports on board.

    There's a few different military agencies involved here, if they had any information from their RADAR, there is little to no chance they would share this information, they have no reason to, this may be one of the reasons for such lack of information being divulged.

    Ive done a little more digging around, it seems there may have been only secondary RADAR in the ATC civilian RADAR and its the military RADAR (which has primary) that then showed it may have turned after 'losing contact' on the secondary RADAR which is very bizarre and opens up more scenarios unfortunately.
  17. Mar 11, 2014

    x42bn6 Full Member

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    An interesting viewpoint from one of the Guardian's comments:

    http://discussion.theguardian.com/comment-permalink/32913256
  18. Mar 11, 2014

    coolredwine lameredboots

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  19. Mar 11, 2014

    Wibble In Gadus Speramus

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    It clipped wings with another plane while taxiing didn't it? How is that in any way relevant?
  20. Mar 11, 2014

    Tomalonge Banned

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    You know what happened. Aliens, nobody wants to say it other than that crazy haired dude on the history channel.
  21. Mar 11, 2014

    OnlyTwoDaSilvas Gullible

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    The reports are also saying some of the people are active and online on social networks via their smartphones as well. Does the same apply? Would the connection to social network just be prolonged indefinitely if the phone leaves the network range whilst active?

    From the Daily Mail report:
    "Telecoms expert Alan Spencer told MailOnline that if the phones are really ringing, they can categorically not be under the sea.
    He added that the phones will only be ringing if they are ‘switched on, not in water, the battery is charged, and [they are] near a mobile cell site.’
    This means that if the phones are genuinely ringing, the plane needs to have landed on land – not in the sea – and be in a location where there is cell service, rather than landing in the middle of a jungle, for example."

    Telecoms expert. He knows his phones. Probably.
  22. Mar 11, 2014

    JustAFan Red Yankee

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    Was mentioned in one of the articles posted earlier in this thread I think. Wasn't it some sort of accident on the runway.
  23. Mar 11, 2014

    JustAFan Red Yankee

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    Too late already been mentioned in this thread.
  24. Mar 11, 2014

    Tomalonge Banned

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    Not enough for my liking.
  25. Mar 11, 2014

    Edgar Allan Pillow Was AFC, likes them hypoallergenic - no feathers

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  26. Mar 11, 2014

    JustAFan Red Yankee

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    At this point and in truth in most air accidents, terrorism ranks very low on the scale of what is the cause. Mechanical failure, pilot error and weather are usually at the top of the list. Certainly though the investigator rule nothing out until the evidence is there to suggest that it should be ruled out. It makes sense that the two men with the stolen passports are being looked at because you leave no stone unturned when trying to figure out what happened.
  27. Mar 11, 2014

    Nick 0208 Ldn News 24

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  28. Mar 11, 2014

    JustAFan Red Yankee

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    The end of the article indicates that the investigators have known about this theory and have been following up on it. so it could still be a case that the SAR teams were not given this info or it could be a case that the SAR teams have been searching the areas that the best evidence suggest to be the correct one.
  29. Mar 11, 2014

    rednev God Save My Gracious Queen

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    It's hard to imagine the plane breaking up over the sea and there being no trace of debris. Obviously there's a huge area to cover, but the search has been enormous by all accounts. And the debris wouldn't all be located in one area, it would have dispersed, increasing the chances of a sighting.

    How plausible is the suggestion that it might have broken up over land and as a result the plane/debris is being sheltered by dense jungle? Surely over land it easily would have been monitored/registered in some way?
  30. Mar 11, 2014

    Nick 0208 Ldn News 24

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    So why were they there and why didn't they communicate?

    Let's say that there was a problem which prompted them to consider diverting or a return to Kuala Lumpur, the pilots set a new course on the autopilot which is then followed however before they can make radio communications find themselves incapacitated. If the cockpit alone suffered some form of rapid de-pressurisation would a crew member be able to gain access assuming that they had cause to do so? If unable to enter, does a means exist for them to contact ground control from the main cabin?


    ETA: I was watching a documentary about the Qantas A380 which got into difficulties out of Singapore [a sterling job by the pilots btw], during the crisis the aircraft seemed to be communicating its faults to home base in Australia, does the 777 have the same capability?
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2014
  31. Mar 11, 2014

    Red Dreams Full Member

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    heard the plane turned from its course before disappearing from radar...whatever the reason. Could therefore the search be going on in the wrong area?
  32. Mar 11, 2014

    JustAFan Red Yankee

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    One you are assuming that they were actually where the military claims they were, at this point that is just one possibility. Today's news also indicated that the search area was being extended to land areas in Vietnam.

    Basically Nick at this point we do not know what happened to the jet and therefore we do not know what actions the crew were or were not taking during the flight. Until that time we can all drive ourselves nuts wondering what was going on but the chances are very good we will all guess incorrectly.

    And yes there are ways for the crew in the passenger section to contact various ground locations, even during the events of 9/11 phone calls were made to flight control by several of the stewardesses using phones installed on the jets.
  33. Mar 11, 2014

    JustAFan Red Yankee

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    Yes it is possible it is why they are extending the search area and according to one news report I saw today that extension includes areas overland in Vietnam. With SAR you start in the area that the best evidence suggests is the right one and move on from there. Unfortunately, there is just not the capability to do a proper search of everywhere at once.
  34. Mar 11, 2014

    Dwazza Van Hernandez A Special Kind of Hipster

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    This has happened before, so it's not entirely unfeasible.
  35. Mar 11, 2014

    JustAFan Red Yankee

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    Overland is one possibility and as I have said according to one report I saw today they are extending the search area to include some land areas. Whether there would have been better radar coverage overland may or may not be the case, depends on where, is it within a radar coverage area, what is the land like (ie mountainous which could block radar signals), etc etc.

    One things we are all learning again is that despite all our technology it is still possible for things to go wrong and the experts not be able to instantanously figure it all out. Obviously if they could have tracked the jet all the way to impact, even if it was in pieces, well then we would not be having all this discussion.
  36. Mar 11, 2014

    Nick 0208 Ldn News 24

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    I'd just like to make it perfectly clear that i wasn't meaning to accuse the crew of anything, just wondering at what options are open to them in such a scenario.

    I know you can get intermittent mobile communication whilst out at sea [we got a fluke phone call from Blighty during a cruise once], i was wondering at there being a specific means set side for the cabin crew. You're right in so far as our speculations having their limits, although some members here on a position to impart information to more ignorant souls like myself.
  37. Mar 11, 2014

    RedRonaldo Full Member

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    Accident like that could take years to figure out.
  38. Mar 11, 2014

    Red Dreams Full Member

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    they are now saying, the search has been extended to the Straits of Malacca...the other side of the peninsula.
  39. Mar 11, 2014

    Red Dreams Full Member

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  40. Mar 11, 2014

    JustAFan Red Yankee

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    You start your search in one area and as that area does not pan out, you begin extending your search areas.

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