[Controversial] Do World Class forwards truly give a damn about trophies?

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by UnrelatedPsuedo, Feb 8, 2018.

  1. Feb 8, 2018
    #41

    Cristiano Lell BANNED LOLZ

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    'Contraversial' of course is the name of a notorious Nicaraguan rapper
  2. Feb 8, 2018
    #42

    Snow Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down

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    Absolutely. If Tottenham weren't competitive Kane would leave. The reason why he won't leave is that he wants to win trophies with Tottenham above all else. Not just play but win trophies.
  3. Feb 8, 2018
    #43

    Raees Fairweather Fan

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    I know. Why did you quote me for then..
  4. Feb 8, 2018
    #44

    Botim New Member

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    Footballers are people too. And football is a job. There's plenty of motivations for changing/staying in a job that are similar to what we all consider in our careers.

    The player (or his wife/family) likes to live in London/England/....
    The player has a special bond with a club.
    The player's happy just enjoying his football and doesn't want to deal with the constant pressure at a bigger club.
    The player has other priorities in life (eg Ciman playing in Montreal because there's a special facility for his sick son)
    The money's too good to say no to (eg Chinese Super League)
  5. Feb 8, 2018
    #45

    Rockets Redglare New Member

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    Shearer won the Premier League then went to play for his boyhood club where he is a legend and their greatest ever player.
    I can’t imagine he’s unhappy with that.
  6. Feb 8, 2018
    #46

    Pat_Mustard Full Member

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    A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
    :lol: Well played Sir!
  7. Feb 8, 2018
    #47

    Stacks Full Member

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    I think I was going to type "agreed" but forgot to remove you
  8. Feb 8, 2018
    #48

    B20 HALA MADRID!

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    Cosmin Contra was pure quality for a while. Was sure he'd be the best fullback in the world. Never really happened for him.
  9. Feb 8, 2018
    #49

    SadlerMUFC Full Member

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    Could also be a case of certain players not selling out. Shearer for example, is from Newcastle and grew up as a supporter of the club. So when he got his move from Blackburn he was at the club that he loved. For him, playing for his favourite team and hopefully winning trophies was more important than say coming to United and winning on a team that he didn't hold dear in his heart. Now we are seeing the same with Kane. I will have a lot more respect for him if he stays at Tottenham for his entire career and wins nothing significant than if he goes to Real Madrid and wins everything...
  10. Feb 8, 2018
    #50

    golden_blunder Site admin. Manchester United fan Staff

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    Rooney said the other day that goals will only keep him happy for so long, then Kane will want to win trophies. I agree with that. I think Shearer was the exception to the rule, unless he truly believed Newcastle could win something.

    Coutinho has admitted he left Liverpool because he wanted to win titles.
  11. Feb 8, 2018
    #51

    Keeps It tidy Hates Messi

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    This thread is disguised Kane muppetry.
  12. Feb 8, 2018
    #52

    VBI Full Member

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    It's worth pointing out as a possible factor that strikers who score tons of goals over a career often tend to get lots of international caps, top scorer awards and player of the year awards in some cases, so they're still collecting keepsakes to display after their career is over. They will have tangible rewards for their personal glory in a way that a right winger or centre back might not have as much. I still don't necessarily believe that in the majority of cases that a great striker would be happy not winning things.
  13. Feb 8, 2018
    #53

    diarm Full Member

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    Could you ask the equally controversial question; can having a legendary goalscorer upon which your side is totally built around stifle the sort of football which leads to success?

    We saw here with Ruud that although he scored loads of goals, we didn't enjoy a comparatively successful period during his time at the club. Similar arguments could be made for Ronaldo, Batistuta, Shearer and other players who had huge talent, played in wonderful teams but enjoyed less success than you might think, especially domestically.

    Perhaps establishing effective partnerships, cohesive units and teams where goals are spread around the pitch a little, is just more likely to bring success than relying on one superstar goals machine.
  14. Feb 8, 2018
    #54

    James Peril Full Member

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    Another thread motivated by Kane I guess, but let's wait and see where he ends up (or not) before we draw any conclusions. What is certain is that Kane has won 0 trophies thus far in his career. Van Nistelrooj won the title with United, as well as the FA Cup and League Cup - he also played for Real Madrid and won two league titles, why did you pick him? Literally played for the two biggest clubs in the world. Alan Shearer won the league with Blackburn and probably decided he was happy enough, nothing could top that for him perhaps (other than winning it with Newcastle, which he did not). Crespo was a nomade and nowhere near the best strikers, but he did win the league, Uefa Cup, league cups etc. Batistuta won the league with Roma, although I know little about his career. Totti can also be mentioned in here even though he was not a proper striker, he could have left for other clubs but still managed to win the league with Roma. He was also the God of Rome, something which is indeed bigger than a football trophy.

    The difference between these guys and Kane is that they all won trophies, one way or another, some of them got a lot of trophies.... Kane has 0 and turns 25 next year, playing for a lesser team in a country where the competition is so incredibly hard to overcome. Spurs have the best team they have ever had in the PL, even better than the one that finished 2nd last year, but find themselves 5th in the league without a snowball's chance in hell of winning it. Somewhere along the line he will start to think about the greener grass on the other side....
  15. Feb 8, 2018
    #55

    Josep Dowling Full Member

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    Agreed but the reality is surely he wants to win trophies more than scoring goals for his own team. Look what Rooney did and he won the lot with us.

    Regardless what a certain Spurs fan keeps saying on here they have little chance of winning anything. The longer that’s goes on I can’t imagine Poch will hang around forever.

    They have some fantastic players but they need major investment in the top bracket players to push on. The gap will only get bigger with their strict wage budget and lack of transfer fees.
  16. Feb 9, 2018
    #56

    Rifer Full Member

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    A. Shearer case:
    An EPL trophy - got it with Blackburn. Check.
    Then, playing for Newcastle till retirement.
    I assume he love playing and scoring regularly for his boyhood club.
    While with Newcastle, continue breaking goal-scoring records.
    Life settle and happy, seem to found the right environment. Check.
    Doesn't strike me as the "ambitious" type of person, or the one hunger for fame and glory.

    Not sure about the other mentioned strikers.

    As for H. Kane, Tottenham seems to be the right environment for him atm.
    Playing for M. Pocchettino, the manager who trust and developed him.
    Spurs is challenging every trophies every season. (although always seems to fail at the final end)
    Team is that strong and playing him to his best.
    Scoring regularly and breaking goal-scoring records.

    The only way I can see him leaving is if..
    Poch leave/sacked.
    More and more seasons played, no trophy.. at all.
    Spurs weakened, after other class players leave (seriously if they're not winning trophies soon, how long are they going to stay, big clubs will bid them)
    Wages not being increased to the average EPL level (the biggest thing they're staying is for that loyalty to Poch).
  17. Feb 9, 2018
    #57

    meamth Full Member

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    Life as a top striker:

    RVP.

    Close thread.
  18. Feb 9, 2018
    #58

    UnrelatedPsuedo I pity the poor fool who stinks like I do!

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    Romario is a winner. The Barca side that he was a part of was astonishing but along with the players listed, he has a poor Trophy Haul.

    For the purpose of the thread you can't really look at International Titles of course.
  19. Feb 9, 2018
    #59

    UnrelatedPsuedo I pity the poor fool who stinks like I do!

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    Position specified because Goals are the greatest quantifiable quality. The players mentioned could have played at the best team on the planet at that time had they snapped their fingers. Instead, they seemed absolutely happy to bang in goals and only seemed to move on when their club no longer wanted them (to an extent)
  20. Feb 9, 2018
    #60

    UnrelatedPsuedo I pity the poor fool who stinks like I do!

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    Not too sure about that. You could be right. But he does seem to prize being a Spurs folk hero pretty highly. That is of course it's own type of trophy I guess.
  21. Feb 9, 2018
    #61

    RooneyLegend Full Member

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    Using players of that generation isn't right as examples as in the past financial disparages between clubs wasn't as big as it is now. In today's football being loyal normally means sacrificing a substantial pay rise which wasn't the case then. It's not just a case of strikers but players who played in positions here, there and everywhere used to stay at clubs that weren't quite seen as the very elite. If Kane does stay at Spurs then it'd be a genuine rarity in the modern game.
  22. Feb 9, 2018
    #62

    OutOfTowner JCL Daytripping WUM

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    That was against Germany wasn't it? I remember that ended in controversy after the Germans won through a suspect goal which Hegel argued that the reality is merely an a priori adjunct of non-naturalistic ethics, Kant via the categorical imperative held that ontologically it exists only in the imagination, and Marx claimed it was offside.
  23. Feb 9, 2018
    #63

    rcoobc Not as crap as eferyone thinks

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    It was offside!!

    Also reality is a dream and nothing is real.

    Bloody ref
  24. Feb 9, 2018
    #64

    OutOfTowner JCL Daytripping WUM

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    It would certainly explain why I always feel like I'm walking with my head in the clouds.

    That said, Confucious was never that reliable a ref anyway because his instructions were usually vague.