Could Mou be about to change tactic?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by golden_blunder, Jul 4, 2017.

  1. Jul 16, 2017

    Connolly New Member

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    Personally, I'd not be against this. The one stumbling block is the left side however. Let's assume we go 3 at the back, Valencia has the right flank covered - both up and down. Can the Croat do the same job - I do not know. The prospect of Rashford and Lukaku forming a partnership is very tasty though. It's the quintessential speedster playing off a large target man. Add Martial to the mix and all of a sudden, there's options. The line up that Bosnian Red posted above is nice (on paper). I'd certainly like to see it in action - in a competitive environment.
  2. Jul 16, 2017

    wolvored Full Member

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    I was going to say similar. I laugh when folks say it as if they are in the know and its set in stone.
  3. Jul 16, 2017

    notcool Full Member

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    We were playing 3-5-1-1 in the first half, not 3-5-2.
  4. Jul 16, 2017

    Minimalist Full Member

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    To be fair that sounds like it would get the job done against 80-90% of the teams we face in the league. It won't be pretty but effective all the same.
  5. Jul 16, 2017

    GloryHunter07 Full Member

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    Is a DM in front of 3 centre backs really necessary? Where do Mata and Mhiki fit in that formation?

    I feel like it would be better to either include a no.10 or play a front three like Chelsea.
  6. Jul 16, 2017

    Pavl3n Full Member

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    The two strikers up top looked really menacing, however, especially in the 2nd half, Martial and Lukaku run in their paths quite a lot. I am not sure they're firstly used to play together, secondly used to play as a part of two strikers attack. Nevertheless it's all a subject to further playing time together and work in training.
    I must say I really liked the build up during the second half, more explosive and more menacing, especially with Mikhi making runs from the deep.

    And that LB/LWB/LW position still looking so suspect. If we could forge Blind, Darmian and Shaw into one player (like in the Diablo game), that would make us great. However I really like how Lingard performed there. I know it's only 45 min of pre-season game vs the almighty reserves of LA Galaxy, but I liked his performance there.

    And we actually saw how Mata and Mikhi were integrated into that shape. I suppose if in future we use such formation, today's training session gave us some helpful insights on how to use our #10's in that set up. Mikhi was a threat every time he got on the ball.


    That is the most important of all. Being able to adapt to different formations and mainly to the strengths and weaknesses of your opponents. And Mourinho is exactly that - studies very well the opposition and sets the team in a way to nullify their strength and attack them through their weakness. I suspect that Mourinho will work on this formation until after the Real Salt Lake City game and then he might work on something else. Try and teach the team to play in different formations so he has a wider range of options when he's facing a tricky opponents. Most probably the City game, he'll be working on his tactics for the European Super cup final.

    More like 3-1-4-1-1 ;)
  7. Jul 16, 2017

    notcool Full Member

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    That's overly pedantic, I think. The reason why I pointed out the formation being different in the first half was because we played more free-flowing and had more control. The second half a lot of the time we played the ball into Lukaku (Darmian did this a few times) and things were a lot tighter for us. That extra man in midfield in the first half really helped us out, I feel.
  8. Jul 16, 2017

    Roboc7 Full Member

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    odd to talk about delusion based on your posts ignoring other teams used three at the back before and trying to attribute counter attacking to LVG which is pretty laughable.

    Like i said teams have taken an interest in 3 at the back because of Conte, has nothing to do with LVG and Jose will play it completely differently to LVG anyway and with a lot of different players. LVG may not have got everything wrong but there is point trying to over compensate by being deluded and then throwing toys out of pram because you can't face facts.
  9. Jul 16, 2017

    Home&Away Full Member

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    352 wasn't anywhere near England in this present era. We were one of the first clubs to use it amongst the top teams, Chelsea were the first to be successful with it; especially since it was down to a manager who instructed juventus to do the same thing.

    There were some reminents of a 352 that Jose can take on from what LVG left behind. I just find the fact that United as a team changing a formation because another team played the formation kind of belittling. Especially since we used it against that team with hardly any practice in what turned out to be one of our best performances the previous season.
  10. Jul 16, 2017

    Roboc7 Full Member

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    England use a back three at euro 96, teams regularly try it all the time, when it fails like it did for us under LVG no one takes note. Whether it is belittling or not, pochettino, wenger and Jose all used it last year because of conte.
  11. Jul 16, 2017

    Home&Away Full Member

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    Doesn't change the fact that LVG used it here, with some of the players still available, just 2 years ago. If anything - conte being successful with it & our last manager using it with some of these players should give Jose confidence in using this formation with our present squad.

    Jose doesn't need to look at Chelsea and conte to build a 352 formation here. When our previous manager left behind a quality wingback in valencia, a great LCB in roj0, 2 strikers who can play in partnership in martial and rashfprd, a CB/CDM in blind, a tenacious midfielder in herrera, another cb/CDM in TFM and many more.

    Jose has added some much more quality than LVG could even touch; but this 'squad being capable to play 352' has been running at this club for a some time.
  12. Jul 17, 2017

    Android1974 Full Member

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    Why the hell, just because it's Mata? That doesn't mean a thing, he did the same movements as the forwards.
  13. Jul 17, 2017

    Android1974 Full Member

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    I confess I was surprised and enthused by our movement, and would expect Mourinho to keep insisting for a while on this 3-5-2 (which can be easily transformed into a 4-4-2). Pretty silly thing to say, but to me the players yesterday seemed to be having more fun playing in this new formation.
  14. Jul 17, 2017

    MadMike Full Member

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    I like these formations. The problem is with the personnel. Perisic is not a LB or LWB. It's not outside the realms of possibly that Jose might try it, but buying a 28yo for £50m to play him in a position that he's never played in .... it does seems pretty crazy.

    If we're gonna play that way, we might as well get player who is excellent in that position and that is Mendy. He got 11 assists from LB last year and he's only 22.
  15. Jul 17, 2017

    Jaybomb Full Member

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    It'll be the 4231 again.

    De Gea
    Valencia Bailly Lindelof Darmian
    Mkhi Herrera Pogba Perisic
    Mata
    Lukaku

    Depending on the opposition, he'll swap Mata out for Fellaini and probably Mkhi out for Lingard.
  16. Jul 17, 2017

    Stack Leave Women's Football Alone!!!

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    So much chat about formations but very little if any about the actual change in tactical application in the Galaxy game.
    There was a very clear and visible change in how we played in that game. We very frequently used very direct passes forward through the middle of the pitch to attacking players. The vast majority of these balls were on the deck and we also saw far more frequent running through the middle of the pitch by players with the ball than before. We were very direct and quick in those transitions. Not long ball direct but dissecting direct, playing through vertical gaps.
  17. Jul 17, 2017

    automaticflare New Member

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    Agree and i think a reason why Jose likes Perreira as 6 he has ability for quickly transition the play through the middle like this just like carrick, better than any of the other midfielders, albeit without the same experience and defensive nouse. I think he will see some game time there this year especially against weaker oppo

    I also think 352 will be first choice formation
  18. Jul 17, 2017

    notcool Full Member

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    Not to my mind. I thought Mata came a lot deeper and was popping up all over the place, in contrast to Martial and Lukaku. Paddy Crerand at the start of the second half said he thought we had switched to two forwards too.
  19. Jul 17, 2017

    Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber Thus says Kemo

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    He is expanding his tactical options.
  20. Jul 17, 2017

    UnrelatedPsuedo I pity the poor fool who stinks like I do!

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    Solid points. But Lukaku is not a target man. People often say that simply because he's a big lad.

    We need to get the guy facing the opponents goal, not our own. We could have got a better target man for half of what he cost if that's what we wanted.
  21. Jul 17, 2017

    Ferguson Full Member

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    The other thing to keep in mind is that the next major trophy we will play for is the UEFA Super Cup against Real Madrid. I believe that we will be preparing for that match over the whole preseason.

    Mourinho will want to add a trophy and to get one over on his former employers. He will also see the Super Cup as a first step toward playing the level of competition we'll see in the Champions League. He'll also know that a victory could create a buzz around our team that will carry over into a strong start to the league campaign.

    If three at the back is the best way to approach Real Madrid in August, then Mourinho will spend the summer drilling it even if he isn't intending on using it over the course of the Premier League.

    My personal suspicion is that Madrid were dragging their feet on the Morata transfer in order to disrupt Mourinho's preparation for the Super Cup, but I have no way of proving that.
  22. Jul 17, 2017

    Pavl3n Full Member

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    You have to keep in mind first half we played more or less vs their reserve team. Mata and Martial played sort of similar position. Keeping in mind first half we played vs their so called reserve team, our transition midfield->attack was smoother. Second half they improved and even though we had more or less same amount of chances, their defenders managed to drop deeper much quicker, it looked tight. Lukaku is not as good as Martial, Mikhi or Rashford running at defenders - another reason why it did look tighter.
  23. Jul 17, 2017

    Pexbo has never watched Star Wars

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    Good post, well said.
  24. Jul 17, 2017

    Ninja7Red Full Member

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    I guess what people are missing here is we were pretty one-dimensional in some of the games last season. Plan B was to hoof the ball up and have Fellaini lumber up a good second chance for others to score.

    Having the squad play with 3-5-2 would mean tactical flexibility with options for Jose, and he might end up this approach against certain opposition sides. Getting them used to that in pre-season is albeit a two prong approach - getting the lads used to it, and also keep teams guessing what formations would the players line up in.

    Consider the fact that we have mutli-functional players - Rashford, Martial, Mikhi, Mata and Lingard (Pereira too - CDM is not really his best position) - who are really good at dovetailing and taking up good positions in the opponent half. Guess that is why Pogba and Herrera need a defensive mid covering them too; one of them would be expected to rampage on forward in search of a killer pass.

    Exciting times ahead considering Jose would know exactly how to tweak the side and get the best out of 'em.
  25. Jul 17, 2017

    Red_Orchestra New Member

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    They absolutely did indeed look like they had great time in this formation, which is by far the important thing for a player. We simply need to have two strikers up front, side by side. It's been a very long time since we've consistently had two Strikers up front, that is what we have been missing. And to be honest, I'm actually praying this is the end of the dreadful 4-2-3-1 formation.
  26. Jul 17, 2017

    Akshay Full Member

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    I don't think neither us nor Madrid are attaching anywhere near this level of importance to the Super Cup. Yes it's a nice trophy to win but the target for us this season is quite clearly the league.

    Mourinho has already said we will play 4 at the back vs Salt Lake. I expect him to continue to experiment with different options so that we're best prepared for a variety of opponents over the season.
  27. Jul 17, 2017

    gr3yham3 Full Member

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    A 352 can also easily morph to a more attacking 4132/diamond, replacing one CB with a DM/AM and pushing further up the pitch to search for a goal. The reverse is true as well if we want to shut up shop With 3 man CB formations getting more popular,a single striker upfront means he will have a tough time. 2 strikers will help a lot with that.
  28. Jul 17, 2017

    Ferguson Full Member

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    You may be right, but my hunch is that Mourinho would make something out of it if for no other reason than to motivate the players in preseason.

    I could be wrong, but I wouldn't put it past Mourinho. He would hate losing to Madrid, and Florentino Perez would have hated selling a true son of the club in Morata only to watch him score against them like he did for Juventus. That would have been personally embarassing. But again, pure guesswork on my part.

    Mourinho will want to disguise his plans by changing formations anyway. I thought it was interesting that Mourinho made a point of saying it would be a back four next. He doesn't want to give away the element of surprise going into the start of the season.
  29. Jul 17, 2017

    ManUArfa Full Member

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    ....and Solskjaer has won it!
    When Jones and Smalling get injured again this will leave us without much cover to consistently play three at the back for a prolonged period.
  30. Jul 17, 2017

    Akshay Full Member

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    I agree we'll be plenty motivated to win the match, and no doubt Mourinho will try to camouflage his preparation for it. I just don't think it will be the focus of the pre-season, rather something he'll have schemed up on the side.

    The Morata deal was just Madrid trying to fleece us in the belief we had no other option but to pay. They'd have done the same even without the Super Cup fixture, just like with di Maria.
  31. Jul 17, 2017

    Pavl3n Full Member

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    I loved the way Mikhi, Martial and Lukaku were running at defenders in the second half. They will need to sharpen up their final runs, but the menace they were posing when they made an approach from the halfway circle towards the penalty area.

    Such CB switching to CDM is Dier, who is very familiar with such tactics as Poch used it last season.
  32. Jul 17, 2017

    Android1974 Full Member

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    But you have to take into account we played better when one of those was Mata.
  33. Jul 17, 2017

    Chesterlestreet Man of the crowd

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    Doubt it.

    What we saw against Galaxy was probably just the most convenient setup for giving minutes to as many as possible.

    We don’t have the personnel for a permanent 3-5-2.

    Most obviously, we don’t have a proper holder beyond Carrick, and we have but one plausible (at the top level) WB in Valencia. There are huge question marks over anyone else who may occupy those positions as backup options - and not a single player who doesn’t have a question mark over him as a potential LWB.

    I think what he said himself is - simply - true. We may go with that formation in select matches, but it won’t be our default one. And that goes even if we do land a proper holder/DM (which we might).

    It’s not a bad alternative for certain matches - as it might give minutes to players who need to be kept reasonably match fit/sharp.
  34. Jul 17, 2017

    Android1974 Full Member

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    There isn't going to be a permanent tactic formation, unless one of them clearly outperforms the others. The only question is the amount of variations that will work fine, besides the base 4-2-3-1/4-3-3. Are we adding 3-5-2 to the things we regularly do? This one would add enormously to our options to surprise the adversary.
  35. Jul 17, 2017

    gr3yham3 Full Member

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    Fabinho can easily do the job too, switching to RB or RCB when needed.

    If we are going 2 upfront, makes me wonder if we might revive Morata interest . Given Perez though,he would blank us if we offered 1Euro more than what Milan offered.
  36. Jul 17, 2017

    RAVred New Member

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    I think he's trying to outfit us to be able to run a 442 in the nigh future. Thats why Pogba and Herrera are being trained to have more defensive duties, as well as the wide players on our team.


    Only formation that makes sense if we go back in for Griezmann next summer, which I think we will bar a disastrous season for us or him
  37. Jul 17, 2017

    NoPace Full Member

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    I'm not necessarily in favor of 3 at the back but I don't think we have a much better situation at LB in 4 at the back than we do at LWB with 3. Either way, we need someone who can attack and defend from the left to compete with Shaw and a proper holder so Carrick can play backup minutes at his age.

    For example, if we signed Mendy and Fabinho from Monaco and that was it for our transfers for the summer we'd be pretty well set up for either 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1 or even 4-4-2.
  38. Jul 17, 2017

    kouroux 45k posts to finally achieve this tagline

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    Anything but 3 at the back for me, it feels so unnatural and wrong for whatever reason.
  39. Jul 17, 2017

    Chesterlestreet Man of the crowd

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    True enough. But 3-5-2 hasn't been Mourinho's cup of tea traditionally. So, I doubt he'll switch to that (default) unless he brings in several new players who fit that exact bill.

    If he doesn't, it's far more likely that he'll stick to his guns and use said alternative as - well - an alternative for a limited number of matches, in which he can give (more) minutes to squad players.
  40. Jul 17, 2017

    Pavl3n Full Member

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    It would be interesting if we offer £5m more, what would he do then?
    But Mourinho said we are in for 2 more players and I don't think ST is one of the positions we are looking at anymore.