Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by SirAF, Aug 13, 2017.
Let's see what Bernardo Silva can do. He is only one who is close to CR7.
André Silva is not good enough yet and he was terrible again yesterday, he's only 21, I think he'll become good enough but he'll never be one of the top strikers in the world. He doesn't offer anything outside of the box and inside the box he needs 5 good chances to score once. His instincts and his movement inside the box are world class, that and the fact our opponents are always worried with Cristiano means he gets plenty of chances but his finishing is terrible which is a bit of a problem when you're a striker. There's a reason he's not starting for Milan and he wasn't even a starter for Porto by the time he left, no idea why he's so hyped outside of Portugal or how Porto sold him for 40 million euros. It's probably the hair.
But that's not even our biggest problem, the main reason we're screwed for the future is our centrebacks. Pepe, Fonte and Bruno Alves will retire and then what? I think a downfall is inevitable for us unless we get a top manager that's able to steady the ship, thank God the tournaments are getting bigger and it will be easier than ever to qualify.
@Skorenzy what @Peyroteo said, he's as usual spot on (Unless he's talking about André Gomes ). His numbers flatter to decieve. I'm very skeptical of portuguese strikers and i haven't understood what's André Silva hype all about. He's benefitting from playing with Ronaldo. Porto's strikeforce of Aboubakar, Marega and Soares is more dangerous and productive than when André Silva was around. It isn't surprising no Porto fan (bar young girls) miss him.
Ofc we will be worse without Ronaldo but i'm confident we will keep qualifying. With or without Ronaldo it's always extremely hard for us to win competitions. We have plenty of talent at midfield, upfront and i'm hopeful decent defenders will eventually appear. If not maybe we can naturalize another brazilian or a france born/portuguese blood player. Our U21 have done well in the last years as well. I hope we can avoid turning into Holland.
Look for a Brazilian or any other player from our ex-colonies
Clever move, the most obvious one!
I think you are overreacting, yes he will not be top of the world, but clearly the best prospect we had or have in that role for many years, probably since Pauleta left, unless you are missing bloody Postiga, right?
Here I agree 100% with you, when you think beyond those 3 we have Neto, Pedro Mendes, Paulo Oliveira, Ruben Semedo or Ié you know you are asking for trouble, clearly I am not entirely happy with the way how some youth players are being developed on the Academies.
There was a interesting interview by Manuel Machado to Mais Futebol about the fact a lot of young players today in Portugal don't have a confortable relation with the ball like we used to do in the past.
And when you see in our Academy someone like Tiago Fernandes managing the under 19's with totally different ideas than João Couto from the under 17's, maybe we have some answers about what is wrong, did you never stoped to think why on earth the last striker we produced for national team level was Jorge Cadete from 1988?
Clearly there is no specific training regarding some areas, that is why we struggle to produce top keepers, strikers and now even center backs, and we don't have a serious sports press who asks this questions to managers, directors of Academies, so we will probably going to produce good midfielders, fullbacks ,wingers and the rest is history.
I like that thinking
There can be only one....
I’ve somehow been banned from the Messi thread and his disciples are having a circle w*nk
This glitch by the TV operator during a Portuguese Cup game tonight
He hasn't nutmegged a player in a game since 2007.
Surely that's not true. He nutmegged someone with an elastico last season if I recall correctly.
Viva. Match winning goal today @FC Ronaldo
Imagine if Las Vegas had a pro soccer team and Ronaldo went there to play out his final days.
Viiiiiiiiiivaaa Las Vegas!
When was the exact season where Ronaldo started putting less emphasis on his build-up play ? I can remember some people in the 2007-08 season saying he was changing from 06-07 but in the 2009-10 season he probably played even deeper than ever before. For me, he was always very involved until the end of the 2012-13 season and slowly from 2013-14 onwards started to play more like a number 9, finally making the full transition last season.
I believe since Mourinho took over Madrid. Mourinho wanted Ronaldo to focus more in scoring and less dribbling. The system build to have Ronaldo run without the ball to arrive in goal scoring situation. Since Ancelotti takeover he runs less and stay more up too due to slight natural physical decline. Bale was to take over some distance Ronaldo were supposed to cover under Mourinho.
Has he really declined physically though ? He still looks like a machine built to play football. Maybe he still has the same speed but is afraid to have the same knee problem he had in 2014
He has same top speed, but acceleration and agility he has lost the edge. Stamina wise seem like Ever since Ancelotti reign, he was being rested more even he himself doesn't agree to.
I think he is still fast when he wants to, yesterday when Benzema scored the first goal, you can see Ronaldo run very fast into the penalty box in sudden burst of pace and acceleration.
What I think is, his stamina has declined bit over the years as he generally runs less in the pitch these days, and you can see he is becoming less and less wasteful on the pitch, reserving his energy and wisely picking up the better chances to run.
He is still refusing to leave that left wing position for good. If he played as the centre forward instead of Benzema, Isco and Asensio could always play together. But he is still very dangerous when he's one on one with a defender closer to the box in a crossing position. Sometimes I think he could do a job in the wings like Beckham, not very fast but effective.
Ronaldo is not a no 9. Playing with his back toward the goal is more hinderance than helping. Coming from the wing, it's harder for any marker to pick him. Full back can't just leave their flank. CB would get stretch. He is still good at running with speed against a back pedaling defender in 1 vs 1 but he is no longer the same Ronaldo who receives the ball in difficult angle and with some crazy turn losing his marker. Like @RedRonaldo just pointed out. He is less industrious and time his run more efficient.
He's declined massively. Balance, explosiveness, agility, quickness. You can see it if you watch a full game instead of highlights. He's still great thanks to his football IQ(instinct/movement) and incredible hunger, drive and confidence
When does his contract end?
Yea. I still can't understand how people think he is the best footballer on the planet. Madness to me tbh.
Madness not to see that he is IMO
He is a great finisher but that's it now. This is not CR of 07-12. In the box he is probably the most lethal player but as a player he isn't anywhere near the best. Doesn't do enough to warrant it. Just hovers around the edge and waits for team to create for him.
We've got 2 camps now, People that think he is a fraud and has been a tap in merchant all his career, superimposing his playing style now to his past and conveniently forgetting his prime where he was simply a monster and it took an alien like Messi to make him look human.
And now we've got people thinking he is still a monster that he was before when he is essentially a box player that almost depends exclusively on his teamates and rarely does things through individual actions.
He is a great finisher now but has no dynamism any more. Nothing wrong with it, noone defeats age.
You're entitled to your opinion and I have no problem with people who think/believe that Messi is better, only those who think of their opinions as facts.
Football is ultimately about scoring goals, that's the ONLY aim of the game and he's the best at it at the highest stage of the game.
Eh not really. Don't think he's the best but top 5 easily. He's declined physically but still a big big player
It's also about creating the opportunities to score them.
He's declined physically and his knee problems mean he doesn't have the agility and balance to do everything he used to do. With that said, he's managed to adapt once again. Now he conserves his energy, not just throughout the game but throughout the season, he's more intelligent than ever in the way he moves around the pitch and his ability to score important goals is probably better than ever.
Let's not forget it was just a few games ago for him that he ran half the pitch in Camp Nou, went past Pique and put in in the top corner. He's still capable of things like that and he does create chances for his teammates, just not as much as he used to. He seemed human at the start of last season too and then everyone saw how things ended.
I think he's just fine physically and could easily play the explosive out and out left wing role better than anyone on the planet. He's not adapted to his body, more his personal targets. I think he's the gold standard for an athlete in contact sport.
he's probably starting slower these days because of international tournaments during the summer. this year it was confederations cup, last year it was european championship. last time he had a free summer, and that was 2 years ago, he started the season with 5 goals against Espanyol and hattrick against Shakhtar.
This is not a great argument because Messi has matched Ronaldo for goals in pretty much every season. Messi has scored roughly 30 goals less in roughly 150 games less, whilst getting more assists along the way. Ronaldo may have the Champions league goals record but Messi is not far behind and will probably break the record by the time they retire. Messi is the one who scored 90 plus goals in one calendar year also, not Ronaldo.
Just because you are a fan of Ronaldo and have always had the opinion of him being the best player in the world does not mean you can't change your mind. Ronaldo was possibly the best player in the world at one point. His final season with us and a few seasons with Madrid, but he is not the best player in the world anymore. I used to always believe Ronaldo was the best in the world, but I changed my mind. His form may have been better than Messi's at times throughout their careers but Messi has always been the more talented of the two. Messi has always been able to do what Ronaldo can, except have the physicality and height to be great in the air, and score from 30 yards. But Ronaldo has never been able to do what Messi does. Messi controls games, is the most creative player on any pitch, go past 3,4 and 5 players with ease, and also matches Ronaldo for goal scoring. I don't understand what Ronaldo has been able to do that Messi has not. Ronaldo scores bucket loads of goals, but so does Messi, Messi notches up more assists which mostly are from great passes and through balls, where as most of Ronaldo's assists have been crosses and passes across goal, not from having great vision. Messi is also more creative. Ronaldo is and has always been better in the air and able to score from further out, but that is pretty much it. I like Ronaldo mainly because of his United days and I don't really like Messi. But it is easy to see who the better player is. Ronaldo is similar to Di Stefano and Puskas in the sense of being a great goal scorer. Messi is similar to Maradona. And most people would agree that Maradona is better than Di Stefano and Puskas.
Debates tend to talk about Messi as being the best of all time (which he isn't in my opinon) but then other debates tend to talk about Ronaldo being better than Messi but not the greatest of all time.
He used to but he's certainly not that now. His top speed is still great but his acceleration and balance aren't even close to what they were.
He's more effective and better for his team in general playing as he's playing now than he would if he was playing as a left winger.
You can create opportunities by movement too.
As I've pointed out a million times, there's no doubt that Messi was the better player at a younger age and played for a much more dominant side throughout his career, so the fact he has more goals over the entire career means f-all.
The CL goalscoring record, let's not forget they were neck and neck just a few years ago, now Ronaldo is 13 ahead, and based on their respective fitness level, I actually think Ronaldo will retire later than Messi (despite being a bit older).
You could argue that Messi was better back a few years ago, but currently, Ronaldo is clearly ahead (I mean in 2017, not Oct 2017), he's the one who played a huge part in winning the biggest trophies.
The best player in the world =/= the most talented player in the world, Messi is probably more talented, but that doesn't make him better, in fact, it's even more impressive that Ronaldo is better despite the lesser talent.
You just pointed out yourself at least 2 things Messi cannot do.
Since when does through balls mean more than crosses?
The biggest similarities between Messi and Maradona are their nationalities and height (or lack thereof).
Like I said earlier, I'm more than happy to disagree, and you've laid out your case for Messi, which is fine, as long as the "Messi is better is a fact" brigade stay away.
Cal?, you are complaining about people that state as a fact that Messi is better, and then proceed to say that Cristiano is clearly better now. How does that work? I personally think quite the opposite for example.
This whole comparison story is downright tedious, has there ever been a consensus best ever in any sport? My late father was adamant for example that Di Stefano was a better player than Pele. Once you get to that absolute top level it doesn't even matter all that much in my opinion.
The first part of your argument means that Messi has been a great player for longer so he has the longevity over Ronaldo. Ronaldo has scored more champions league goals but has played 30 more. Messi was great from the start and Ronaldo wasnt so the argument doesn’t hold. Ronaldo has scored more in the last few years yes but mainly because Madrid have gone further in Europe due to better management. The last few years Madrid have had a better team and Madrids focal point of goals was Ronaldo. He didnt have Suarez and Neymar next to him. If Ronaldo did he wouldn’t have scored as many. Ronaldo isn’t clearly ahead in 2017 either. Messi scored 12 more goals and 4 more assists. Stats are not everything or Zidane wouldnt be that great. Even just watching the two of them without stats, you can see who is better.
Through balls means more than crosses because you need to have great vision, crosses are sometimes speculative and balls across the box are not from great vision.
It isn’t me just saying ‘Messi is better for a fact’ though. Messi has better stats, he is more creative, a better passer, better at free kicks (conversion rate), can take players on easier, scores with less shots, has more flare. What has Ronaldo got that is better? He is better in the air and is more physical?
You say Messi has played for a more dominant team for longer, but you talk as if he played for MK Dons not Man United and Real Madrid. Barcelona wouldnt have been anywhere near as dominant without Messi. He is the reason they won so much.
If you dont include Ronaldo at Porto and his first few years for United Messi has scored more. 481 to Ronaldos 474. If you take away both their goal stats you can see that Messi is superior. It has nothing to do with being in the it is a fact that messi is better brigade. The evidence is there clear as day that Messi is better.
Zidane has been managing Ronaldo really well. Gave him plenty of rest in between important matches last season. And credit to Ronaldo for understanding the limits of his own body and not over-exerting himself. This season the 5-match ban has given him even more time to rest. With the world cup coming up, Ronaldo will be happy if he starts turning up his gear in the 2nd half of the season. He will already be thinking about what he needs to do to get his hands on his next Ballon D'or.
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