CSKA’s “offside” goal

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Pogue Mahone, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. Dec 6, 2017
    #1

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    My take on it was the same as all the BT pundits. When a player is off the pitch (Blind) then they can’t play anyone onside. By all accounts, the players thought this too. Mata said after the game he asked the ref wtf and was told it’s a “new rule” where players remain active even after they leave the field of play. Has anyone heard about this rule change anywhere else? Is it an actual rule change??
  2. Dec 6, 2017
    #2

    Raees Boing Boing Baggies

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    Whether the rule change is in effect or not, the refusal to actually give the goal to the guy who actually scored it was even more bizarre.
  3. Dec 6, 2017
    #3

    saivet Full Member

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    Surely it shouldn't have counted and it's not important to the rule, but wasn't it going in anyway? It's one of those that even if happened to us in a big game, it would be difficult for me to be too upset about.
  4. Dec 6, 2017
    #4

    SqualorVictoria New Member

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    How new is this rule though? In 2008, Holland scored a similar goal and it was already deemed as the correct decision.

  5. Dec 6, 2017
    #5

    limerickcitykid There once was a kid from Toronto...

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    According to Law 11, a defending player who leaves the field of play for any reason shall be considered to be positioned on their goal line or touchline for the purposes of offside.

    As above, the rule isn't even new.

    Of course defenders can't be just stepping off the pitch to make people offside.

    Edit:
    A defending player who leaves the field of play without the referee’s permission shall be considered to be on the goal line or touchline for the purposes of offside until the next stoppage in play or until the defending team has played the ball towards the halfway line and it is outside their penalty area. If the player left the field of play deliberately, the player must be cautioned when the ball is next out of play.
  6. Dec 6, 2017
    #6

    Cutch Shit stirrer (Literally)

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    If a player is off the pitch injured and receiving treatment on the sideline can he in theory be playing everyone onside then?
  7. Dec 6, 2017
    #7

    DCP New Member

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    No, if I'm correct it's only if they leave the field of play without the referees permission.
  8. Dec 6, 2017
    #8

    limerickcitykid There once was a kid from Toronto...

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    If the ref allowed him off then no he isn't part of play. If he has left himself then he is part of play until the ball is cleared so a new "attack" would begin which he is now not apart of.
  9. Dec 6, 2017
    #9

    Nick7 Full Member

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    Yeah this is it.

    I mean, if the play was 5 yards back and Blind slid and stopped just short of the goal line, it wouldn't be offside. So it makes sense to me.
  10. Dec 6, 2017
    #10

    SqualorVictoria New Member

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    As far as I'm aware, you're only out of play when you have the permission of the referee to leave the pitch. So if he is receiving his treament after the referee allowed it (which is mostly the case), then of course he does not count towards the offside rule.
  11. Dec 6, 2017
    #11

    Cutch Shit stirrer (Literally)

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    Ah right ok. Thanks
  12. Dec 6, 2017
    #12

    Player Red Full Member

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    No, when the ref gives him permission to leave he is deemed to be out of the game.
  13. Dec 6, 2017
    #13

    Steven Seagull Full Member

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    Yeah the ref was right but the law isn’t new
  14. Dec 6, 2017
    #14

    Moonred Full Member

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    Makes sense. It was onside.
  15. Dec 6, 2017
    #15

    fergieisold Full Member

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    Couldn't believe the stupidity of the pundits ignoring blind!
  16. Dec 6, 2017
    #16

    Player Red Full Member

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    Blind ignorance
  17. Dec 6, 2017
    #17

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    All of which makes it bizarre that Juan Mata seemed a) surprised and b) convinced the ref told him it was a new rule. That and the fact they didn’t award the goal to a player that clearly got the last touch was all odd as feck.
  18. Dec 6, 2017
    #18

    sewey89 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    I wasn't aware of that law. I was convinced it was offside. Going by the law, it was clearly onside.

    Goal was scored by the guy who's back it hit though, was very odd to give it to the guy with Believe tattooed down his neck.
  19. Dec 6, 2017
    #19

    glazed Full Member

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    Presumably the ball was going in anyway and so the deflection made no material difference. Isn't that the test? I never saw a camera angle which proved it either way.
  20. Dec 6, 2017
    #20

    Ikon Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    Sums up the usual standard of punditry, spouting shite when they don't know the rules. (Harry Redknapp always banging on about "injury time" springs to mind)
    The officials were bang on correct to allow the goal.
  21. Dec 6, 2017
    #21

    kps88 Full Member

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    Does the rule apply to an attacking player as well? If a striker intentionally leaves the pitch, does that stop him from being offside? From what I can remember, I think it does not make him offside, which doesn't seem balanced to me. He should also be considered to be on the goal line/touch line.
  22. Dec 6, 2017
    #22

    Ikon Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    That's a very good point.
    Under the wording of Rule 11, then that attacking player would be deemed to be on the goal line, and always offside even if a defender was with him as he would still be level at best.
    Don't know if that scenario has been played out yet....
  23. Dec 6, 2017
    #23

    limerickcitykid There once was a kid from Toronto...

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    An attacker in an offside position is only offside if he is involved in the play. Going to be hard to be involved if he is off the pitch.
  24. Dec 6, 2017
    #24

    limerickcitykid There once was a kid from Toronto...

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    A player being in an offside position doesn't make it offside though.
  25. Dec 6, 2017
    #25

    Nick7 Full Member

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    Well if a striker doesn't make a deliberate attempt to play the ball he's not offside. So an attacker that stands off the pitch and doesn't make a move for the ball wouldn't be offside. However if a striker is off the pitch and in an offside position, then they make a move towards the ball they will be offside.
  26. Dec 6, 2017
    #26

    Ikon Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    What if the attacking player had slid into the goal?
    Would his position then be deemed to be on the goal line inbetween the sticks?
    He surely has to be interfering with play in that scenario...
  27. Dec 6, 2017
    #27

    Raees Boing Boing Baggies

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    Yeah but that is only relevant in determining own goals, not their own team mate!
  28. Dec 6, 2017
    #28

    Red_toad Full Member

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    I'd have said it was going wide until it hit him.

    Hopefully this new rule will be consistently implemented. Does seem stupid that a player who isn't even on the pitch is classed as active.
  29. Dec 6, 2017
    #29

    limerickcitykid There once was a kid from Toronto...

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    Its not new and it is completely logical.
  30. Dec 6, 2017
    #30

    harms Way Staff

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    I remember Giggs taking advantage of the lack of this rule in the 90's (although in offence and not in defence). He would step out of the pitch to make himself "inactive", then the ball was passed into his zone and he stepped back to the pitch, onside.
  31. Dec 6, 2017
    #31

    limerickcitykid There once was a kid from Toronto...

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    Well I guess depends if the ref deems him to be interfering. If he is just laying in the goal not in the way of the keeper then he wouldn't be interfering with play. I'm sure I've seen goals with attackers standing in the goal. In those scenarios though there are usually a few defenders on the goal line with them.
  32. Dec 6, 2017
    #32

    Ikon Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    Was it Brian Clough that once said...?
    "If any of my players are in the opposition box and not inteferring with play, they won't get paid that week..!" :lol:
  33. Dec 6, 2017
    #33

    glazed Full Member

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    I don't have the rule in front of me, but logically you'd think it would apply to both.
  34. Dec 6, 2017
    #34

    KirkDuyt Full Member

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    If you leave the pitch without the refs permission you are, for all intents and purposes of the offside rule, on the backline of the field therefor, playing attackers onside.

    It's in the rulebook, plain and simple. The ref was right, as he was when Ruud scored against Italy in 2008.
  35. Dec 6, 2017
    #35

    charlton66 Full Member

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    Not sure about Clough but Bill Shankly said this “If a player is not interfering with play or seeking to gain an advantage, then he should be.”
  36. Dec 6, 2017
    #36

    unitedforeveral Banned

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    That would be taking permission from the referee and therefore doesn't comply to the rule above mentioned. I don't think we should worry too much about it because we played fantastic football throughout the game and we always had the potential to score goals, how many ever was necessary. If it was the other way around and we had to score 6 goals to qualify, i think we would've given it a great go..
  37. Dec 6, 2017
    #37

    Red_toad Full Member

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    Whatever's...
  38. Dec 6, 2017
    #38

    Ibi Dreams Full Member

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    I'm surprised anyone would think that the goal shouldn't have stood. If you could just leave the pitch and no longer be a factor in offside calls, you'd get players occasionally taking themselves out of the game by crossing the touchline instead of running back to get in their defensive line
  39. Dec 6, 2017
    #39

    yumtum DUX' bumchum

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    This is what confuses me, I knew straight away that the goal was legal even after the deflection that took it in, but the officials trying to ignore that touch by Dzagoev baffles me when they had no need to try and justify their decision which was the correct one.
  40. Dec 6, 2017
    #40

    Samid follows Pogue around, fixing his images

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    How is this even a thread? Find it staggering that anyone who has followed football for a few years doesn’t know the offside laws. The debate should have been dead the minute they showed the first replay. The goal was as legitimate as it gets.

    Oh who am I kidding. BT’s so called 'expert panel' with thousands of professional games between them were making up their own rules last night so how can I possibly expect all the armchair experts on the caf to know the actual rules.

    And did they really not give the goal to the guy who touched it last? It doesn't fecking matter if the ball was on target or not, the last attacking player to get any sort of touch gets the goal.

    Fecking hell, the absolute state of football fans.