Discussion in 'Current Events' started by p_ps_sock, May 26, 2008.
it's the American Way!
they invented owning your own home.
No no. Sack Brown. Sell Giggs.
Not just mild recessions, severe ones.
The last 15-20 years of mild-ish recessions, strong expansions and low unemployment are the anomalies.
By which they meant "stealing it from the nasty red people already there"
nasty is a little harsh isn't it?
how were the Andes, spinoza?
Absolutely brilliant thanks. One of the great experiences I've had so far. I got to the Sun Gate at Machu Picchu around 4 in the afternoon, so the setting sun illuminated the entire city.
Just before arriving there, I got a slew of text messages along the lines of "17-3!" "Campeones ole ole ole" "Edwin you beauty" which made it even better....
they don't have a jealousy smilie otherwise I'd be posting one right this instant.
good to see you made it back alive. will you be posting any photos?
Mobile phone coverage at Machu Pichu?
Kinell. How times change.
When I walked the Inca trail you travelled in groups and carried machettes to avoid getting robbed or worse.
Probably - only got back last night, so might take a few days.
Now you get loads of porters, each restricted to a load of 20 kg only. No llamas or mules either, to ensure jobs for the local people.
I had a mobile signal most of the way - died a bit when I went round the mountain just before Machu Picchu, but got it back near the Sun Gate. There's a town of sorts on the river below the ruins now, with a train station, 5 star hotels, pizzerias, the works.
That's not Brown's fault, for reasons I've gone into several times on here.
The impact has largely been positive.
Sorry? If uncontrolled immigration were a problem for unemployment the rate should rise.
So? You say it as if it were a bad thing.
National debt measured as a percentage of GDP is pretty low (although I acknowledge that it has been rising). What matters is debt relative to service cost.
The government can't alleviate high levels of personal debt. It's time people took some responsibility for their actions.
I'll admit I'm not significantly informed on the matter but it occurred, and the percieved 'Iron Chancellor' in the midst of a booming economy was able to do very little to prevent our pension system from falling into decay.
There are two large problems here, the first being that the government have not got a clue about forecasting ahead and that they either didn't know what they were getting into or they lied about what they were getting into. The Second point is the strain on our resources by the biggest migration wave we have ever seen. We simply do not have the housing stock or excess space in our education and health systems to cope with such an influx, which is something Central Government has been very reluctant to act upon leaving it to local authorities.
With regard to point 30, I was talking about a combination of both low unemployment- managed by a huge number of 'incapacitated' people, and then a large labour force- attained through uncontrolled immigration.
I suppose that depends on whether you are socialist or not, but it does constitute a real terms tax rise of 20%, and by a government who spends money very inefficiently with whom the public are at odds with over what it is spent on.
That is very true, whilst our national debt is hovering around 44% many other nations in the Western World owe far beyond that- in Italy I believe the figure is around 110%. Though that does not negate the fact that the goverment have handled spending irresponsibly running up a huge deficit at a time when it would be rise to save it for a rainy day, debt repayment cost us £8bn a year when Labour entered office and it is now over £30bn a year.
That I do agree with, though the Government must take it into account when calculating the cost of living, tax rises and inflation adjustments- not to mention their own spending- which is something they are obviously not doing or have ever done since 1997, though I will concede this is more dangerous than national debt.
That's because pension provision is largely privatised. The current regime encouraged quite a lot of unwise investment strategies which didn't work, and were then blamed on Brown by trustees wishing to keep their jobs.
The lack of capacity argument is something of a red herring. Of course there will be a strain on current arrangements, but the health and education system is capable of coping if they were run better. You can blame the central government but local authorities and vested interests also share the blame.
On the flip side no one mentions lower costs, a more flexible labour market, people coming in with the right skills, regeneration of smaller towns, etc etc.
OK, but I still have a problem with your use of "uncontrolled immigration". Immigration into the UK has never been uncontrolled. It's very controlled, as I know from personal experience, and it's much harder to convince someone to employ you than it is to convince a government to let you in.
37% to 44% is not a big change. In addition if you look at levels instead of percentages, you'll find that the tax impact has fallen largely on company profits instead of wages. The reduction in percentage terms of wages in income GDP is due to expansion of company profits more than anything else. Same sort of story when you look at the expenditure side, only in this case you find that consumer spending is by far the largest component, because people in general, being the efficient spenders that they are, have geared up massively.
Are you sure those figures are inflation adjusted? They look wrong to me.
Well, yes, but the tax rises, cost of living and inflation adjustments made by the government are hardly crippling. They are uncomfortable certainly, but what do people expect?
and you could probably add lots more to a Government that promised to be whiter than white
in spite of all that there are the intelligentsia ???? here that think things are fine ffs
How Gordon Brown thinks he can ride this out for two years and then win a general election God only knows, his re-elect (elect) polling number currently sits around 25% which is a 70 year low. As of this very moment the capital is being crippled by a haulage strike, the government have a bill coming up to increase detention without charge to 42 days, they have the Lisbon Treaty to go fully through and inevitably the energy companies will push charges sky high come September.
Things can only get better they said, that is the ultimate lie as far as Labour are concerned. It will be an interesting summer and conference season, and the way it is going Brown this time next year will be writing his memoirs.
but I repeat again that if Brown and a Conservative government were in power now and did all that this lot has done - there would be street riots and the caff intelligentsia would be spitting blood. No bias here of course
It's not all about the economy.
Crime, NHS, schooling and Immigration are four major areas where the mood of the public has changed drastically, and it's not all about the papers.
I was going to argue Brian's points but Spinoza does it far better than I ever could.
Isn't Vannistelrater a big Daily Mail fan?
They read the Daily Mail
It is the Holy Grail
so you think Blair/Brown and Co are doing well FFS
Thats a bit harsh on you - easy fella
Eh? Up until a couple of ago, you always had to have a 5% deposit anyway. The 100% mortgage is over, whether it's fair to poor people or not.
You call that 'working'?! A bust following a huge bubble isn't a system 'working', it's a dysfunction. And on a human level, losing your house and going bust are two of the most devestating things that can happen to someone.
Hells bells. Being sarcastic and taking the piss out of politicians on an internet forum is being shortsighted and pathetic. Whatever next.
Most of us are not bothered about growth rates - it's about what affects our families and their standard of living. At worst some of us are heading for redundancy, losing our homes or bankruptcy, or possibly all three. Where the hell do you live in the UK - are you not seeing the cost of fuel, heating, rates and food rising way above the rate of inflation? That is ignoring the cost of borrowing on mortgages, loans and credit etc. You have to be reasonably well off or a photosynthetic life-form not to be affected. The increase in expenditure will not be matched by pay rises and therefore most of us will notice a severe fall in our standard of living, which in my experience pre-empts a recession.
Action taken then.
The Mail on Sunday's is excellent.
This New Labour Government's fecked and it knows it. The polls and the by-election results last week are much worse than normal for a 3-4 term government. The 2.7 million pound cashback on taxes was a desperate measure and there is worse to come with Joe Public's rebellion on their all-embracing persecution of car owner/drivers.
Blair's final legacy is to screw Brown good and proper.
If everyone read this newspaper they would never leave the house.
I think they've summed up well IMHO
Probably not the most PC, but closer to the truth than other rose tinted papers
if you over paid for your house that you can't handle a quarter percent increase in interest rates, then you deserve to lose your fecking house. I'm 27 years old and refused to get sucked into this property ladder shite, people are paying several times the material and labour costs of a building a house, thats just insane.
as for fuel costs etc check the price of oil and you may see why, it isn't unlimited and the price will just keep going up, cutting taxes on fuel is short term thinking that will only make the problem worse (maintain/increase consumption meaning oil runs out quicker, not to mention the environmental impact), if you can't manage the cost get a more fuel efficient car.
cost of borrowing? wtf, interest rates are 5%, that is not high
in an article about football the writer talks about
'the prime minister's economic meltdown'
and the obsurd 'it may not be too extreme to suggest that we are approaching the collapse of our civilisation'
is summing it up well?
boris and david
I prefer Andrex
I don't think they're doing badly
So feck everyone else Jack, I'm all right. Ever thought of becoming a labour politician?
And you're 27 and lecturing us on recessions (post 8). Christ you've never seen yet the damage that Labour can do, viz the 1960s and 70s. Jesus Christ.
How's that a feck up? Wheres the disaster in not getting that vote?
Not pleasant for those caught up in it and should not be around but a feck up? No. And you're reaching a bit buy listing it 3 times
Poor justice and a little shit, not a feck up however
I'm not sure why you think it's a bad thing
I'm sure there is more to it then that, for example the police are a little smarter then just using powers even given, there's supposedly going to be a push to use them given the current problem with knives
This is a feck up you've got two
Bollocks on the political correctness
Could do better but not their feck up. It's what they've inherited, until they set up a system which fails how can you blame them?
Some random worker in the DW&P fecks up and that is the fault of the entire Government?
Few related points here, where do you propose they stick new roads? Making them forever wider isn't a real option and then theres NIMBYs. Trains have huge subsidies and investment but not enough, I'd concede a feck up here though it's more a lack of vision, they did inherit a mess from the tories. Buses are pretty decent today.
And? Show me the waste in the system, just posting a number is meanigless
I need to know whether the numbers have increased or decreased compared to previous level, again your putting down numbers without context which makes them meaningless. Don't see how 18 is a feck up
Political correctness again, bollocks again. What do you suggest we do with children that have been expelled from one school, I'm sure even in days past they didn't expect them to never re enter education at some institution. Parents can smack their children in this country.
Yes, feck up
There are more police besides the PCSO, they've also got there uses, last November there was one standing at the top of the hill directing traffic at a fireworks event, it's better then wasting a copper on the job.
Yes, they should make there mind up
Some of those actions were correct, Iraq was the one feck up
Local taxes are spent badly by local councils, how it that the governments feck up?
Your anticipating a feck up, wait and see
Dunno much about this
Streets are fine to play in, the danger is exaggerated.
He closed a tax break, he didn't go in and grab money out of pension funds
They shouldn't have lied about the figures but the immigrants have had no negative impact, not a feck up
Benefits are far from generous, who'd want to live on £60 quid a week?
Started under the Tories I believe, should do better but not their feck up
Dunno about British history, I'm sure it's taught as it ever was in schools, as for culture, don't remember any lessons on that and that was under the tories.
Given the state of public services the government inherited I don't have a problem with that since it's been spent quite heavily on schools and NHS
I'm yet to see the problem the borrowing has caused, things could go wrong in the same way it could with the Glazers, until it does it's not a feck up. How would they alleviate the situation by the way? Tax cuts would drive inflation given that people would spend cash in pocket. Personal debt is just that, how can it be the governments fault?
I'm indifferent about this, we English are the most powerful group within Westminster and most law in made there, I don't see the great problem in the Celts having power over a few affairs as well as in Parliament.
Is it me or are there some selfish, naive and/or deluded feckers on here?
Dunno about here, but the government is riddled with them.
That's why they are on their way out.
Yep.They're called Daily Mail readers.Like the tories will do any better.It's easier from the outside looking in.
it's a holistic view...the paper stands for issues, but it feels as if everything is linked rather than individual stories...
You're probably right - the problem is that New Labour and New Tory are becoming interchangeable. As for the Lib Dems and the other fringe parties - forget it.
I can't imagine voting Tory either next time. Gone are the days when you would be Tory, Labour or Liberal for life.
You now have to vote on the issues and manifestos, and even there you're fecked because they never keep their promises as Team Brian GB has pointed out. No wonder the electorate is apathetic.
I wouldn't be surprised if an ultra-party did well at the next election.
Separate names with a comma.