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Death of JonBenét Ramsey (1996)

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by 100, Dec 29, 2016.

  1. Dec 29, 2016
    #1

    100 binary bot

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_JonBenét_Ramsey

    I've come across this case after it being in the news today, seems to be quite popular in terms of discussion on the internet as an unresolved mystery but i can't find too much about it on here. Such a strange case, anyone read into it in more detail or put much weight in any of the theories?
  2. Dec 29, 2016
    #2

    RedTiger Full Member

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    I read a few months back that the number 1 suspect is now her brother, apparently they found undigested pineapple in her stomach and the story goes that the family came back home from a night out and the mom gave the son some pineapple chunks to eat, Jo took a few spoonfuls and this pissed the boy off enough that he hit her over the head with a blunt object. The parents then set everything up to cover for their son.
  3. Dec 29, 2016
    #3

    Raoul Admin Staff

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    I've been following it through the news since it happened. There's a good CNN special about it on Youtube somewhere.

    Don't think the parents had anything to do with it. Probably one of the suspects who knew the father.
  4. Dec 29, 2016
    #4

    100 binary bot

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    I became aware of the case after a news piece today that he was suing CBS for implying he did it in a recent tv show.

    I'll try and give it a watch. The ransom note is bizarre.
  5. Dec 30, 2016
    #5

    sullydnl Ross Kemp's caf ID

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    Last I heard in this case the parents were vindicated after years of abuse after DNA evidence belonging to someone else was found at the scene. Which basically means their lives were hell from the moment she disappeared as so many people were certain they had done it. One would hope that these accusations against her brother aren't more of the same.

    I was also reminded of that case when people were making baseless accusations about the McCanns too. Bad enough losing a child without idiots making the worst kinds of spiteful accusations against you without anything like sufficient evidence to back it up.
  6. Dec 30, 2016
    #6

    Stobzilla Official Team Perv

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    the theory that she is Katy Perry was a bit out there.
  7. Dec 30, 2016
    #7

    Tarrou Full Member

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    I'd never even suspected the brother before but.. she had undigested pineapple in her stomach? Holy shit!
  8. Dec 30, 2016
    #8

    RedTiger Full Member

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    :lol: I'm just regurgitating what I read a few months back! As @100 has already said the brother seems to be suing CBS for that allegation.
  9. Dec 30, 2016
    #9

    Raoul Admin Staff

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    Her brother just sued CBS for $750m for their "investigation" that cast him as the probably killer. Hope he takes them to the cleaners.
  10. Dec 30, 2016
    #9

    Mciahel Goodman Worst Werewolf Player of All Times Staff

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    The media love these stories. They're really just tragedies that are rarely ever solved, but there's an enormous industry which involves people asking you to play amateur detective. Kercher, McCann, and the list goes on.

    Undeniably interesting at the same time, though. Murder has been a business since the beginning of print media.
  11. Dec 30, 2016
    #10

    Jippy Sleeps with tramps, bangs jacuzzis, dirty shoes Staff

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    Is Maddie still alive?
  12. Dec 30, 2016
    #11

    Scarlett Dracarys ( . Y . )

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    I'm obsessed with this story. There are so many theories but the actions of the parents after her death make me think that she died accidentally and they covered it up to avoid prosecution.
  13. Dec 30, 2016
    #12

    Mciahel Goodman Worst Werewolf Player of All Times Staff

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    No idea, never followed the theories. I'd doubt it to be honest, but you never know.
  14. Dec 30, 2016
    #13

    Raoul Admin Staff

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    I doubt it was the parents. The ransom note is too long and I doubt the little brother would've not heard something.
  15. Dec 30, 2016
    #14

    Raoul Admin Staff

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  16. Dec 30, 2016
    #15

    100 binary bot

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    The DNA seems pretty convincing due to the location of it.

    Crazy case.
  17. Dec 30, 2016
    #16

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

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    Did you see his interview with Doctor Phil? He is very strange. Probably has Aspergers or something. He didn't do himself any favours by appearing on there and grinning all the way through talking about his sister's murder.
  18. Dec 30, 2016
    #17

    Vooon Full Member

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    There are a bunch of podcasts/true crime shows discussing this case out there, it was all over the place a few months ago, along with the CBS documentary.

    In my opinion the theory that the brother did it as an act of sudden rage and the parents (in panic) decided to cover it up sounds most plausible. There are so many things about the case which makes no sense otherwise, starting with the absurd ransom letter which handwriting analysts think points to the mother, and crappy police work from the start. The CBS team also found out that you can find DNA from factory workers in unopened underwear.

    I'd recommend checking out the CBS doco and the various true crime podcasts.
  19. Dec 30, 2016
    #18

    theyneverlearn and this one probably never will

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    I'm pretty sure it was either the parents or the brother, with motive pointing to the brother. The evidence points to someone within the house, more so than outside of it.

    No person who is attempting to kidnap someone goes into a house with no equipment or the tools for the job. All items used to hold her, kill her etc. were items within the house. The note used to write the letter was from within the house too.

    It was also proven that the note was attempted to be written previously, but was scrapped and restarted; this was determined by analyzing the notepad the note came from. The detectives also couldn't say for sure that it was not the mother who wrote the letter, it was a very close match with her handwriting and style of writing. Due to the length of the letter, and the previous attempts to write it, it seems very strange how unprepared a kidnapper would be, sitting around writing a detailed letter whilst inside of the house of the person they are to kidnap. The note was over 3 pages long and many experts have determined that it is a clear case of someone trying to be someone they're not.

    The figure asked for on the ransom note was also the exact figure that the father got for a Christmas bonus that year ($118,000), which only a select few people would know about. It is also such a low amount that it would be pointless for any kidnapper asking for it, especially when the father was worth millions at the time, and could readily access higher amounts of cash. The motive behind using this figure gives the impression of trying to point fingers at someone who has access to this information. The note claims to be a group of people, which again suggests that the figure is even more pointless.

    Also during the 911 phone call, the mother says that the brother is still asleep in the bed, yet when the call is over, there is a few extra seconds of audio which has been enhances and you can hear the parents talking to the brother and the bother talking back There is an extra 6 seconds of audio which is basically the parents saying 'what have you done?!' and the brother asking 'what did you find?' It makes no sense for them the lie that the brother is still asleep, except if they're trying to cover something up.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
  20. Dec 30, 2016
    #20

    FCBarca Mes que un Rag

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    I'm not sure why. I remember when the story first broke and my opinion hasn't changed since, only a nutter family subjects a toddler to that sort of insanity of pageant life. Even the father has acknowledged as much in recent years.
  21. Dec 30, 2016
    #21

    Penna Kind Moderator (with a bit of a mean streak) Staff

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    I watched the recent programme and I thought that suggesting the brother was involved didn't actually explain how the child ended up being strangled. The programme suggested he could have hit her with a torch/flashlight, as there was allegedly evidence of him hitting her with a golf club on an earlier occasion.

    However, the cause of death was not primarily the cranial trauma, so it doesn't add up for me.

    The video of the interview with the brother as a child was strange, he appeared to be deliberately refusing to identify the bowl of pineapple and cream when showed a photograph of it, even though he'd been eating it. He said he didn't know what it was, possibly cereal, maybe more likely some kind of fruit. The little girl's DNA was never found on the bowl, with the team of the investigative programme suggesting JonBenet may have run past and just grabbed a couple of pieces of pineapple, without touching the bowl.

    You can always theorise about the older child being overtaken for his mother's affections by the beautiful younger golden child, leading to a build-up of resentment and jealousy - but it's just a theory.
  22. Dec 30, 2016
    #22

    Blodssvik Full Member

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    People's obsession with this murder is a bit creepy. Young, white girl from wealthy family murdered and sold in media packaged with pageant photos.
  23. Dec 30, 2016
    #23

    K2K Full Member

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    Was there anything in the rumours that the mother's handwriting matched that of the ransom note? saw that in some crime show
  24. Dec 30, 2016
    #24

    SteveJ all-round nice guy, aka Uncle Joe Kardashian Scout

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    Perhaps ordinary citizens are sick of wealthy people getting away with murder, decade after decade; here's an example from the Seventies:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._Cullen_Davis#Life_and_murder_trial
  25. Dec 30, 2016
    #25

    golden_blunder Site admin. Manchester United fan Staff

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    I cant see beyond the brother and parents in this particular case.
  26. Dec 30, 2016
    #26

    Raoul Admin Staff

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    For me, the fact that the DNA of another male was found in her underwear more or less completely steers me away from the family.

    The undigested pineapple theory is unconvincing as there was no motive.

    If the brother was involved, as a nine year old at the time, it would've been easily pulled out of him when he was seperately interviewed by investogators and child psychologists. It's next to impossible for two adults and a child to participate in a spontaneous murder of their own child/sister, then successfully concoct a story, then be consistent about it after being separately interviewed about the specifics by trained investigators.

    The Ramseys were a pretty weird family, which imo helped drive suspicions against them, but the fact that DNA of an unidentified male was found on Jonbenet suggests someone else was involved.

    Another problem is that the litany of TV shows and documentaries over the years aren't helping matters by overdramatizing certain angles as if they represent some sort of diabolical smoking gun. The case needs to be reopened with more emphasis on finding a match with the male DNA that was found on her body.
  27. Dec 30, 2016
    #27

    izec Full Member

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    Evidence could have been removed or planted, impossible to resolve the case. From the time they found her til the police arrived, anything could have happened. I do agree that it looks like someone in the house did it, whatever the reason might be. I dont like the parents though, something is weird about them. They dont match at all
  28. Dec 30, 2016
    #28

    UweBein Full Member

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    It was the parents, stupid...
  29. Dec 30, 2016
    #29

    Raoul Admin Staff

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    The DNA of another person planted in her underwear ? I think we're getting a bit far fetched now.

    The parents being a bit eccentric has nothing to do with guilt or innocence.
  30. Dec 30, 2016
    #30

    Bubz27 No I won’t change your tag line

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    Let's say the ransom note was real, what was the killers plan? Kill her, leave her in the house and still hope to get the money the day after?
  31. Dec 30, 2016
    #31

    Bubz27 No I won’t change your tag line

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    I dont think it's that far fetched. Making a murder look sexually motivated make its look like a thousand other murders.
  32. Dec 30, 2016
    #32

    UweBein Full Member

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    DNA evidence is not as water-proof as it might appear. During the NSU murders the police in Germany were also looking for a mysterious woman whose DNA had been found on multiple crime scenes. It turned out it was a factory worker who was packing up the cotton buds so they were already contaminated. (And that was a mistake in a very high profile case in Germany with multiple experts involved, and yet they were hunting a ghost for years.) So I can not see how a single piece of DNA points to another suspect, since all the other evidence points to the parents as well the fact that in more than 9 out of 10 cases it was someone near or from the family who killed the child.
  33. Dec 30, 2016
    #33

    Raoul Admin Staff

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    It's just pure conjecture based on zero evidence, neither physical or circumstantial. On the other hand, 38 people within a two mile radius of the Ramsey home were registered sex offenders and another girl had been attacked in her home around the same time. And then there is the mysterious death of Michael Helgoth, who lived nearby and told one of his co-workers "I wonder what it would be like to crack a human skull". Helgoth committed suicide shortly after JonBenet died. The possibilities of who could've done it are endless.
  34. Dec 30, 2016
    #34

    Raoul Admin Staff

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    There is no other evidence. The fact that the family had fingerprints, shoe prints, and DNA all over the house is hardly a surprise since they lived there. DNA is far more powerful than any of the circumstantial drama that gets put into documentaries.
  35. Dec 30, 2016
    #35

    facund Full Member

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    "Why did you hit your sister on the head with that torch?"
    - "She ate some of my pineapple dad"
    "Oh that's ok then, hold the greedy b*tch down while I fashion a garrotte to finish the job".

    I wouldn't rule out the brother or parents but the creation of such narratives by journalists or investigators is incredibly irresponsible. I blame Cluedo for this mess.

    Until they have something conclusive they should leave the brother alone. He seems a bit odd but having to deal with a dead sister before the age of 10, being raised by parents that you know half the world thinks are murderers and being under a barrage of media scrutiny for 20 years is going to feck you up a bit I imagine.
  36. Dec 30, 2016
    #36

    Ramshock CAF Pilib De Brún Translator

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    I cant get past the 911 recording where it seems she is hysterical with her son and also the rambling ransom note. I don't know how they couldn't find conclusive evidence but I cannot see past it being the brother killing her and the parents. covering it up.
  37. Dec 30, 2016
    #37

    Raoul Admin Staff

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    Trouble with that is - No motive, brother would've confessed when isolated with an investigator, DNA of another person was found in her underwear and fingernails after she was sexually assaulted.
  38. Dec 30, 2016
    #38

    sullydnl Ross Kemp's caf ID

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    From what I've read the police ruled the son out several times during the investigation, apparently after three seperate interviews, one of which took place over three straight days. None of the investigators from any of the organisations involved belived that he was in any way involved. The grand jury that blamed his parents didn't believe he was involved. The district attorney at the time publicly announced that he wasn't involved.

    But CBS has it cracked, based entirely off evidence that was already available at the time? Hmmm.

    That's without even mentioning the DNA evidence that points away from anyone in the family.
  39. Dec 30, 2016
    #39

    Bubz27 No I won’t change your tag line

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    I totally agree, and one of those possibilities are the parents/family.
  40. Dec 30, 2016
    #40

    Bubz27 No I won’t change your tag line

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    Edit: reading the rest of the thread since my initial post, there's plenty more to it.

    Obviously no one on this thread is going to crack the case all of a sudden.

    I know it's dangerous territory to try to imagine what a potential murderer was thinking, but her body being in the basement seems odd to me. Where the family in the house when she was taken from the room, all the way down into the basement and then murdered? And leaving the body there while waiting for a ransom they never attempted to retrieve. Very risky. But then again, I'm assuming the murderer was thinking rationally.