Declan Rice

Discussion in 'Transfer Forum' started by roonster09, Mar 29, 2019.

  1. Apr 14, 2019

    VeevaVee despite the protests, wears Ugg boots Scout

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    Messages:
    31,015
    :lol:
  2. Apr 14, 2019

    lysglimt Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Messages:
    7,882
    Fred and McTominay can both make it as hard-working central midfielders, but as a defensive midfielder, they are not close to Rice.
  3. Apr 14, 2019

    DSG Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    245
    Location:
    A Whale’s Vagina
    No. His ground coverage is minimal compared to Kante. If anything, he’s going to get thicker, not quicker.

    Not even close to Doucoure, Sissoko, Fernandinho, Henderson, Torreira, Guendouzi as a DM.

    Reasons he’s not good enough as a DM and eventually be moved back to CB:

    1. He’s not quick enough
    2. His off ball movement is poor. He doesn’t open passing options for teammates.
    3. His range of passing is limited compared to top DMs. Watch the players above. Watch Witsel on Dortmund, watch Veratti.
    4. Touch is not great, and in that position, you need perfect touch (ask Fred).

    I watched him specifically for long periods. He does have good anticipation and he is good at winning 50-50 balls and tackling.

    I’m not saying he’s a failure, or won’t become a good CB, I’m saying he will never be a top DM. At knockout stages of CL, winning the PL, just don’t think he’s good enough.

    He’s only 20, and he will improve, but he’s a CB with that skill set.
  4. Apr 14, 2019

    UNITED ACADEMY Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2018
    Messages:
    1,108
    Fred has shown some promising stuff recently in that holding midfielder or deeper midfielder position. If he can keep up the good performance until end of season, we can let this transfer pass for this summer and focus on other area.
  5. Apr 14, 2019

    izec Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2013
    Messages:
    18,565
    Location:
    Lucilinburhuc
    Good off the ball. I have my doubts on it though. We need much more than only simple things on it in that position
  6. Apr 14, 2019

    croadyman New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2018
    Messages:
    261
    Yeah I think Rice and a creative CM would certainly be an upgrade on what we currently have there
  7. Apr 14, 2019

    croadyman New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2018
    Messages:
    261
    Saul would be big money which would mean we couldn't get Koulibaly & Sancho too
  8. Apr 14, 2019

    Champagne Football Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2015
    Messages:
    2,170
    Location:
    El Beatle
    If Rice definitely won't be as good as these players in a few years when he catches up with them in age, then how come you weren't on here 3 years ago constantly banging on about Torreira, the new midfield sensation at Sampdoria that we should sign, when Torreira was 20 years old like Rice?
  9. Apr 14, 2019

    DSG Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    245
    Location:
    A Whale’s Vagina
    The DM position is moving away from thumpers like Rice and more towards quick, skilled players who cover a lot of ground and are brave tacklers. I’m pretty sure Rice is not going to get quicker.

    This is a thread on Declan Rice and how the forum rates him. I gave four reasons why I don’t see him becoming a top DM. I’m not sure lack of comments on Torreira four years ago is even relevant.

    I could be wrong, but that’s my opinion. He’ll be a CB within 2-3 years.
  10. Apr 14, 2019

    tenpoless Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2014
    Messages:
    2,314
    Location:
    *Teleports behind you*
    Remember when Schneiderlin played a blinder against us...?

    I'm quite impressed by Rice but it'll be a gamble if We go for him a.k.a I hope He's not the only one We'll go for if both Herrera and Matic won't be here next season.
  11. Apr 14, 2019

    Ekeke Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Messages:
    43,035
    Location:
    Hope, We Lose
    So who are the top clubs? Surely Liverpool are one. They're top of the league

    Premier league

    Liverpool

    Milner :

    12 games in CM, from those he averages 2.5 tackles per 90, 1.5 interceptions
    and 1.2 clearances per 90 mins. 66.7 total passes, 1.9 key passes, 2.7 aerials per 90,
    and 2 goals so far this season. Clearly a hard worker.

    Fabinho :

    17 games in CM/DM, from those he averages 2.5 tackles per 90, 1.1 interceptions
    and 1 clearance per 90 mins. 67.5 total passes, 0.9 key passes, 2.2 aerials per 90,
    and 0 goals so far this season. A decently hard worker.

    Wijnaldum :

    28 games in CM/DM, actually doesn't do a lot defensively. Has contributed more
    in attack, running and on the ball. Not sure he does enough to be considered a
    hard worker.


    Henderson :

    15 games in CM/DM, from those he averages 2.1 tackles per 90, 1.1 interceptions
    and 0.5 clearances per 90 mins. 81.3 total passes, 0.4 key passes, 1.8 aerials, and
    0 goals so far this season. Another decently hard worker.


    Keita :

    9 games in CM/DM, from those he averages 2.3 tackles per 90, 0.8 interceptions
    and 0.2 clearances per 90 mins. 70.6 total passes, 0.6 key passes, 1.4 successful dribbles,
    1.4 aerials and 1 goal so far this season. A third decently hard worker.




    United


    Pogba :

    24 games in CM/DM, 1.5 tackles per 90, 0.4 interceptions and 1.2 clearances per 90.
    60.5 total passes, 1.5 key passes, 1.8 successful dribbles, 3.8 aerials and
    9 goals from the CM/DM position.

    7 of the 9 goals were penalties, 1 from open play and 1 from a set piece.
    I'd say at best he's in the same category as Wijnaldum, not doing much defensively but
    good output going forward. Just not enough to be considered a hard worker.


    Ander :

    14 games in CM/DM, 3.6 tackles per 90, 2.7 interceptions and 1.4 clearances per 90.
    62.8 total passes, 1 key pass, 1.1 aerials per 90 mins. 2 goals so far this season.
    Clearly a very hard worker


    Fred :

    11 games in CM/DM, 2.7 tackles per 90, 1.5 interceptions and 0.8 clearances per 90.
    64.8 total passes, 1.1 key passes, 1.5 aerials per 90 mins. 1 goal so far this season.
    Clearly a hard worker


    McTominay :

    5 games in CM/DM, 1.3 tackles per 90, 1.6 interceptions and 2.2 clearances per 90.
    43.6 total passes, 0.0 key passes, 7.3 aerials per 90 mins. 1 goal so far this season.
    Not that hard a worker in his premier league minutes so far this season.

    Obviously he's had some good games against good teams in Europe so we know he can do
    a bit better than he has done in the league so far. But those are just a handful of
    games too so we dont know if hes going to be like his league performances, or those
    big game performances if he's playing on a weekly basis.


    Matic :

    24 games in CM/DM, 1.8 tackles per 90, 1.1 interceptions and 2 clearances per 90.
    67.4 total passes, 0.5 key passes, 3.4 aerials per 90 mins. He has 1 goal so far
    this season.

    Not a very hard worker. Generally he's been a harder worker when we have the ball
    but this season he doesn't even excel in that area. He's only had a month or two
    of form the entire season. So certainly not a hard working player.



    So Liverpool who are top of the league currently have 1 hard worker,
    3 decently hard workers and then Wijnaldum perhaps a bit less hard working
    overall.


    United who are 5th in the league currently have 1 very hard worker, 1 hard worker,
    2 not very hard workers and McTominay who hasnt been that hard working in the league
    but has looked decently hard working in Europe.

    Seemingly the very hard worker is leaving the club in the summer for PSG,
    at that point we'll just have 1 hard worker, if we're lucky 1 decently hard worker if
    McTominay can play like he does in the europe each week and 2 not very hard workers.

    So obviously we need one of the more hard working players around to replace Ander.
    It doesnt have to be an extreme hard working player like he is, if Fred is also playing.


    But Fred will need help.
  12. Apr 14, 2019

    Ekeke Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Messages:
    43,035
    Location:
    Hope, We Lose
    Rice was one of the quickest players in midfield today. Fred and Pogba maybe a bit quicker
  13. Apr 14, 2019

    Jib Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,718

    You have chosen the worst example. Liverpool is the only top team with a midfield like that.

    And they can play like that because the system of Klopp hide their weakness and when you have players like Firminho ( Benzema 2.0) or defenders like Van Dijk and TAA, it's help a lot too.

    We are closer to a Pulis side than a Klopp side ffs.
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  14. Apr 14, 2019

    Ekeke Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Messages:
    43,035
    Location:
    Hope, We Lose
    So the top team in the league right now is the worst example. Brilliant

    Who should we model ourselves on then? The teams behind them?
  15. Apr 14, 2019

    Adnan Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2013
    Messages:
    13,752
    Location:
    United Kingdom, England
    The reigning champions maybe?
  16. Apr 14, 2019

    Jib Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,718
    The reigning champions maybe like @Adnan said or the team that won 4 CLs in 5 years maybe...
  17. Apr 14, 2019

    Adnan Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2013
    Messages:
    13,752
    Location:
    United Kingdom, England
    A team that's won 4 out of the last 5 CLs would be nice..:D
  18. Apr 14, 2019

    Ekeke Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Messages:
    43,035
    Location:
    Hope, We Lose
    So the team thats past it and struggling?
  19. Apr 14, 2019

    UDontMessWith24 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,498
    Their front three has the quality to produce something out of nothing is how they hide it. We have very good midfielders and our attackers find ways to produce nothing out of something.
  20. Apr 14, 2019

    Mcking Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2017
    Messages:
    3,610
    Location:
    Nigeria
    Not true. How many of those are even DMs?
  21. Apr 14, 2019

    Freak Born a freak always a freak.

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    18,182
    Location:
    Somewhere in your mind, touching a nerve
    I like him. Get him.
  22. Apr 14, 2019

    AndersB New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2016
    Messages:
    215
    Yeah, noticed this yesterday too. Especially in the first half, he looked surprisingly unsure where to move when in possession.

    He had a great game though. High energy, won the ball a lot, at times very high up the pitch. Mostly luck that it didn't result in a goal. Tidy player.
  23. Apr 14, 2019

    Isotope Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Messages:
    12,653
    Supports:
    Ole Ole Ole
    Very impressive performance. Madrid started winning the CL since they had midfield balance with Casemiro as DM. And maybe we should be back on having British core in midfield, too.
  24. Apr 14, 2019

    Feed Me I'm hungry

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2004
    Messages:
    25,171
    Location:
    Midlands, UK
    I agree. We need to get a proper British core back in the spine of the team and Rice appears to be made of the right stuff. We need to ensure that Matic is a bench player at most next season.
  25. Apr 14, 2019

    Isotope Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Messages:
    12,653
    Supports:
    Ole Ole Ole
    Maybe it's just us with romanticism of the good ol' days.
    It doesn't mean that we shouldn't sign non-British players, as we shouldn't limit the talent pool. I'd still love to have the like of KdB, Eriksen, and Kante too.
  26. Apr 14, 2019

    ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg Full Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2017
    Messages:
    2,209
    Thank God he's no longer Irish then!!

    Good player, but I'd give him another year at West Ham, lots of players struggle after their break out season.
  27. Apr 14, 2019

    Feed Me I'm hungry

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2004
    Messages:
    25,171
    Location:
    Midlands, UK
    You generally don't get the British gems being linked away to other big clubs whereas there's always a feeling that continental Europeans etc always have one eye on the likes of Barca and Real. That's just my feeling.
  28. Apr 14, 2019

    Feed Me I'm hungry

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2004
    Messages:
    25,171
    Location:
    Midlands, UK
    Sorry, I should have said British and Irish ;)

    United have had some fabulous Irish players over the years and they are a big part of the fabric of the club.
  29. Apr 14, 2019

    Thomas Hunter New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2019
    Messages:
    30
    Well with the lack of quality among british midfielders you won't get anywhere. I thought Rice was good yesterday, and maybe he could be a starter someday if he join United. But we will need to have world class midefielders along him if we want to compete.

    I like him but I'm not sure he should be a priority. I think Fred is doing well as DM and we still have McT and Matic. McTominay is a United product and british, so I don't know why we would need Rice.

    I think if we choose to sign only 3 players (CB, RB, RW) instead of 4 we can have more money to sign top players.
  30. Apr 14, 2019

    Red00012 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2018
    Messages:
    1,603
    Toby would be a better signing than Koulibaly and we’ve a better chance of signing Messi than Sancho leaving Dortmund in the summer.
  31. Apr 14, 2019

    Red00012 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2018
    Messages:
    1,603
    There’s enough on here to compete with Martial FC
  32. Apr 14, 2019

    Litch Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2013
    Messages:
    5,993
    I think this lad will one of those players that in future like Kante that people say, why didn't we buy him cause he only cost X amount. There's a crop of English talent coming through that if we can get them, we'll have something that can compete in a few years to come. I hope Ed stops chasing the big names, and looks what's in front of him in the league.
  33. Apr 14, 2019

    golden_blunder Site admin. Manchester United fan Staff

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2000
    Messages:
    89,694
    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    I wouldn’t be unhappy signing him, at 20 there’s enough potential there for carrick to work with

    Unless we’re prepared to shell out for a ‘sure thing’ like veratti, every player is going to be a gamble
  34. Apr 14, 2019

    Carl has permanently erect nipples

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2008
    Messages:
    40,619
    By which point if he doesn't struggle he'll be twice the price.

    We should be buying this lad, 100%
  35. Apr 14, 2019

    Kaglish10 Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2019
    Messages:
    976
    I would say Madrid looked more impressive with a 3-man midfield of Alonso, Modric and di Maria than that of Casemiro, Modric and Kroos. A shame that Alonso wanted to leave as soon he won the CL at Madrid because he wanted to leave on high hence the reason why Madrid had to sign Kroos but unfortunately, Kroos isn't a no 6 like Alonso but a no 8/10 regardless of his similar slow stride to Alonso hence Madrid had to change their midfield set-up and bring in Casemiro to accommodate the two no 8 they have in Modric and Kroos however, I would say they weren't that impressive. They have just been lucky so far because I could remember how many times they were dominated by Barca's midfield and even in the CL, I recall Bayern dominating them in the midfield as well as missing countless of chances until Ronaldo eventually came to the rescue. Likewise against Barca in the league matches. The only time their midfield looked fantastic against Barca was when Kovacic was deployed in the no 6 role.

    I could also recall Pjanic dominating their midfield also. Of course, Modric and Kroos have been good but it's no use when they often have to drop deep to get the ball due to the inability of Casemiro to progress the play to them upfield where they can constantly cause havoc. With the plethora of talents Madrid had in midfield, they were often forced to sit back and counter against Barca/Bayern while hoping that Ronaldo from his combination with Marcelo would eventually get something out of the match. That's not the way I want us to operate. Besides, we don't have a player like Ronaldo nor a prime Marcelo here.

    I would like us to have a defensively solid playmaking no 6 in the holding midfield role with MCTominay and Fred/Pogba in front of him, similar to Juventus' 3-man midfield of Pirlo in the holding midfield role with Marchiso/Pogba and Vidal in front of him. That midfield despite Pirlo's age matched Barca/Spain midfield in the CL final and in the Euro but unfortunately, neither Italy nor Juve had the talents in the attacking area to hurt Barca or Spain. Besides, I recall Tevez missing lot of chances he should have put in, in the final. Only if Tevez was clinical, the story could have changed.

    Likewise the German's 3-man of schweisteiger Kroos and Khedira during their 2014 world cup campaign despite the lack of quality forwards in the team (they had to resort to playing a no 10 like Gotze as a foward and Muller who was off form) yet the Germans won the campaign due to their midfield domination. A shame that schweisteiger retired after the world cup and they have yet to find someone to replace him so far.

    My point is I don't want a player in the mould of Declan Rice in the holding midfield role for us. Besides, MCTominay didn't look out of place playing that same role against Liverpool and Crystal palace, if at all we would require a much more defensively astute player in such role in some games.
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  36. Apr 14, 2019

    andersj Nick Powell Expert

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2004
    Messages:
    1,815
    Location:
    Copenhagen
    I agree with this. I have watched him alot too. Made a thread about him a while back. I think he could work as a DM, but its not where he has the biggest potential. At least not for a top 6-club that wants to control the games with the ball. (But I do not agree that he is not quick.)

    His passing is not great for a midfielder, but as a central defender, with a bit more time and space, he would be a brilliant passer.
  37. Apr 14, 2019

    ManchesterYoda Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    251
    Rice has decent stats for a 20 year old, but he's a bit of an ugly bugger.
  38. Apr 14, 2019

    Murder on Zidane's Floor You'd better not kill Giroud

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    4,157
    Kevin Bridges?
  39. Apr 14, 2019

    ManchesterYoda Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    251
    He's committed only 19 fouls so far playing over 4,000 minutes. Surprising and one of Carrick's many strengths was tackling and making interceptions whilst committing very few fouls.
  40. Apr 14, 2019

    Mcking Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2017
    Messages:
    3,610
    Location:
    Nigeria
    Wouldn't stand no chance against Anti-Martial FC though.