Did starting Sanchez Hurt Us?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by manunited1919, Feb 1, 2018.

  1. Feb 1, 2018
    #1

    manunited1919 Full Member

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    We all wanted to see Sanchez in the team. But the issue is throwing a new player into a team when we are playing against a well-drilled top opponent away. Sanchez is not used to helping the team play out from the back, he doesn’t know each player enough to be able to know the runs they make, the passes they usually try, etc.

    Putting him into the team meant Martial went to the right, and Pogba had more weight to carry in midfield. Both of these were disruptive to the team. Under a lower tier opponent it wouldn’t have mattered, but away against a top team it seriously affected our team dynamics.
  2. Feb 1, 2018
    #2

    AshRK Full Member

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    The blame has put on Sanchez, lukaku,pogba, martial but in reality lingard had a mare yesterday. I still think a 3 man midfield would have been perfect.
  3. Feb 1, 2018
    #3

    Ødegaard formerly MrEriksen Scout

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    I think starting Sanchez on the left & Pogba + Martial on the right was a mistake. I think we should either go with Martial - Sanchez or Sanchez - Rashford.
    Either way I don't think that mistake alone was all that important.
  4. Feb 1, 2018
    #4

    Son Of Sam Banned

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    Mourinho ruined us.
    He’s generally more cautious away from home. A 3-man defence & 3-man central midfielders would have stifled Spurs....the plan ought to be keeping it tight till the 2nd half and then introduce the light footers like Lingard, Martial or Rashford to run them ragged.

    4-2-3-1 left us too open.
  5. Feb 1, 2018
    #5

    horsechoker Sailor vee, this is a right off.

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    We hurt ourselves today
  6. Feb 1, 2018
    #6

    Fridge chutney Full Member

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    Not much our attackers could do with Pogba and Matic playing so uncharacteristically shite.
  7. Feb 1, 2018
    #7

    Epicurean Banned

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    This place after a loss is an absolute rollercoaster of hyperbole :lol:
  8. Feb 1, 2018
    #8

    Dennis Viollet New Member

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    oh come on please!
  9. Feb 1, 2018
    #9

    settembrini Full Member

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    I think it was a mistake to play him on the left and move Martial.

    However it was not as big a mistake as once again insisting on 4-2-3-1 against a good side.
  10. Feb 1, 2018
    #10

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

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    Nah Sanchez couldn't have done anything differently. Nor could Martial. Nor could Lingard. Can't even blame Lukaku much, though it doesn't help him that his touch and passing is woeful. Problem was team selection. Sanchez being here didn't force Mourinho to use Pogba in a 2 and then watch him bomb up the pitch leaving a back 5 and a front 5 with no midfield at all. It was like playground football basically. Sanchez to his credit saw there was nobody deeper so he kept dropping deep to try and get on the ball to play to attackers, and he did play some nice passes into the attackers. But we want him being the one further up with midfielders playing those passes.

    So basically, Mourinho was the problem and his wrong use of Pogba. Til that changes, we'll see games like this time and time again.
  11. Feb 1, 2018
    #11

    JohnnyLaw Full Member

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    No, and I thought he had a decent game. Starting four other attackers alongside him and sacrificing the balance of the team was quite obviously foolhardy though.
  12. Feb 1, 2018
    #12

    Vilev Banned

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    Of course, though it's managers fault. An away game against Spurs is hardly a time to test something new. Jose have a habit actually of making these sort of decision, throwing players, team in at the deep end.
    We all remember Micki "debut" against City. And all the same questions were asked. I think in a way it's a acknowledgment of him not being able to win these games in a confident, dominant manner. Basically he recognizes that the team playing the way he set it up cannot win these game without luck or something extraordinary, which is why he is making these a bit of a hail Mary decisions.

    Of course a more sound option would have been to start Sanchez on the bench and then use him as a impact sub. That's was obvious.
  13. Feb 1, 2018
    #13

    Robbie Boy Full Member

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    Philip Jones hurt us, hurt us ever so much....
  14. Feb 1, 2018
    #14

    Bastian Full Member

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    I think expecting him to immediately improve us is naive. First we need to find his position in the team. If we are shoehorning Martial somewhere else than his actual left forward position, it needs to be for very good reasons. Given that Sanchez is brand new in the team, I would expect the normal thing would be to play him on the right and see what he can offer from there. Fielding him will be a bit of a learning curve for the team as a whole. That being said, we lost because we went without a midfield into that game.
  15. Feb 1, 2018
    #15

    VP89 Pogba's biggest fan

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    Nothing to do with Sanchez. The midfield was shit. The defence was shit. Everyone was shit.
  16. Feb 1, 2018
    #16

    Sparky Rhiwabon Full Member

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    Lets focus on the Yeovil game where Sanchez was MOTM and we cruised to victory!! :drool: only joking
  17. Feb 1, 2018
    #17

    Jaybomb Banned

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    No. Mourinho got the starting 11 correct.

    The players were the ones that let us down. Not the manager.

    You tell me who you would have dropped? Lingard has been our best player this season. Martial has been scoring recently. Lukaku and Sanchez are no brainers. Pogba and Matic always play.

    The only changes I would have personally made would have been Rojo and Shaw for Jones and Young. But I can see why he chose the latter. Young has “experience” or whatever and Jones hadn’t fecked up in a few games so he was always gonna play.

    Hindsight is a wonderful thing. But you can’t blame the manager.
  18. Feb 1, 2018
    #18

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

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    The weird thing was that we just ended up punting the ball over the top to beat their high line anyway. We could have done that with a compact defensive shape.
  19. Feb 1, 2018
    #19

    djembatheking Full Member

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    Tactics fecked us last night . We were trying to play through their midfield and they pressed us to death and we constantly failed to play out of our own half . We played right into their hands and Spurs played really well to take advantage . Just put it down to a bad night and move on , shit happens .
  20. Feb 1, 2018
    #20

    Phil Full Member

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    No
  21. Feb 1, 2018
    #21

    Irish Jet Full Member

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    Literally the last player at fault for that shower of shit.

    A forward should have dropped out. But not him.
  22. Feb 1, 2018
    #22

    Smores Full Member

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    Well people have been wanting him to go attacking and he did!

    I do agree though, wasn't balanced.
  23. Feb 1, 2018
    #23

    L1nk Full Member

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    Shunting our best LW player to the right for no reason when Sanchez could easily have slotted on the right was a stupid idea, other than that, starting him was fine.
  24. Feb 1, 2018
    #24

    Zlatattack Full Member

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    No, but putting him on the left screwed Martial's game.

    Play Sanchez on the right, not Martial.
  25. Feb 1, 2018
    #25

    12OunceEpilogue Full Member

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    I'd have kept Martial on the left. Sanchez would have started on the right and switched with Lingard as and when. Lingard dropping deep could have adversy affected this plan but actually I would have benched Lingard in favour of Herrera in a more solid 4-3-3 with Martial-Rom-Sanchez ahead.

    We'd probably still have lost of course.
  26. Feb 1, 2018
    #26

    NotoriousISSY $10mil and I fecked it up!

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    There really was no one individual responsible for our overall performance (obviously Jones’ input in both goals aside).

    But starting Sanchez not in hindsight, but even at the time seemed a bit foolish to me. You don’t make your league debut from the start in that fixture. Bad move from Jose.
  27. Feb 1, 2018
    #27

    Irish Jet Full Member

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    Martial got far worse when he went back to the left. Excuses.
  28. Feb 1, 2018
    #28

    Ikon Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    ^^Agreed^^
    I thought Sanchez said he was happy to play anywhere across the front line, so why switch Martial out to the right..?!?

    Once again a lesson that in this League you have to boss the midfield if you have any ambitions.
    Playing 2 in there will always leave you at a numerical disadvantage, and against the better teams (or lesser teams that are up for it) you will be over-run.
  29. Feb 1, 2018
    #29

    crossy1686 Full Member

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    Agree with all this.

    If Baily would have played in place of Jones yesterday you eradicate both their goals.
  30. Feb 1, 2018
    #30

    manunited1919 Full Member

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    I agree with what you say about 2 man midfield, and I do think Sanchez was one of our better performers yesterday. My point is that he needs to be integrated into the team so as to not affect the team balance and team dynamics. Against teams that sit back and defend, we can try him in different positions, and the team balance will not be as critical as it is against a top side. We had no balance in midfield yesterday, and no good outlets for our defenders. Including Sanchez in the team was disruptive and contributed to the lack of balance and the difficulties in finding outlets to play the ball frm the back.
  31. Feb 1, 2018
    #31

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

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    That wasn't the issue though. Sanchez essentially just replaced Mata from the starting 11. If not Mata, then Rashford. We normally play an unbalanced team, that's what the problem is. Getting Sanchez in and starting him wasn't the problem, the problem was that Mourinho didn't drop one of the attackers to fit another midfielder in. If it was too early for Sanchez, then fine (it wasn't IMO), but then we have to use herrera or fellaini from the start alongside matic and pogba. Sanchez logically did start, but then we have to drop one of lukaku, lingard or martial. Martial has been our in form player and our biggest threat consistently this season, has to start IMO. Lingard has been in form, but I would never say for him he has to start as he isn't at that level and generally, he's best as a 10, and Pogba does not play well with a 10 in front of him. Sorry, but it's the truth and it sucks for lingard and any other 10 we get but that's the reality. Best solution IMO would be just drop lukaku, play lingard on the right, martial top and sanchez on the left, but that's never happening.
  32. Feb 1, 2018
    #32

    Vilev Banned

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    Obvious. Sanchez can't really play on the right as well. How many game has he played there in the last couple of years?
    Lingard also started as a right midfielders, but has not played there for a while.


    It's old same story once again and again. There was a time when we had just too many forwards and no creative midfielders, number 10s. Then we went on a spree and had to many number 10 with no quick wingers. Now we have quite a lot of players that can play left winger, but basically none on the right. Mata is not really a right winger.
  33. Feb 1, 2018
    #33

    Vilev Banned

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    That was not attacking. An attacking side would at least create moments while being open, we created maybe like 4-5 decent opportunities in the whole game.
    Attacking team would press up high, like spurs did, we did not even press close the the middle. Etc.

    No need to make that something it was. It was not an attacking approach, just unbalanced one.
  34. Feb 1, 2018
    #34

    Stubble New Member

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    I unfortunately expect Jose to persist with putting Sanchez and the left or centre and thus not getting the best out of Martial/Lingard/Rashford - it will cost us points but Jose's a stubborn old git (see the Pogba/Matic 2 man midfield continuing farce for proof)..
    He's not sold on Martial on the left....... remember Perisic...
    We all thought he bought Sanchez to play in our weakest area - on the right - the first 2 games would suggest otherwise...
  35. Feb 1, 2018
    #35

    Kapardin Full Member

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    The ideal formation was this:

    DDG - Lindelof, Jones, Smalling - Valencia, Herrera, Matic, Pogba, Shaw - Martial/Sanchez, Lukaku.

    I'd favor Sanchez over Martial in normal conditions, but since it was his first league game, I'd have preferred to start him against Huddersfield and bring him on as a sub. But I believe we might have taken something from the game if we went 3-5-2.
  36. Feb 1, 2018
    #36

    Smores Full Member

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    We definitely set out to be attacking until their second goal. Is that even debatable?
  37. Feb 1, 2018
    #37

    Stubble New Member

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    Prediction....next game
    Lukaku - Up top
    Sanchez - Left
    Lingard - Centre
    Rashford - Right
    Oh dear....
  38. Feb 1, 2018
    #38

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

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    He really didn't though and we can and should blame the manager. You can't keep making excuses for him and putting the blame on the players when you look at his atrocious record in big away games. At a certain point which has long passed, you have to look at Mourinho and what he does. He gets it wrong every single time. To get a balanced team for big games, we need a midfield 3. It gets the best out of Pogba and also gives us the solidity in midfield. It's as simple as that. Sucks for one of the attackers, but that's the reality. Pogba can't perform well while a separate #10 is on the field against decent opposition as they will always exploit that (unless we play without wingers like a 3-4-1-2 like against Arsenal where Pogba played well, but even then we are generally light in midfield and leak chances, but with the added cover of another defender so not quite as bad).

    So with that, you then look at who you can fit in that. Matic of course will be the anchor man of the midfield. Pogba the most advanced mid. Sanchez one of the front 3. Herrera or fellaini the only options who can play the other midfielder role, so you play them. Doesn't matter about form of attackers. Someone has to go on the bench to get a balanced team. For the other 2 spots of the front 3, obviously it's between lukaku, Martial and Lingard. Lingard has been in form, but playing as a 10 and that position just shouldn't exist for us if we want to get Pogba to be any good. Martial has been the most in form player for us IMO so he had to start, and he did have a few good runs but generally didn't have any platform to succeed (like any of the attackers). Lukaku I don't think should have this untouchable status, but he does for Mourinho so safe to say he'll start up top. So really, it's just between Martial and Lingard to start on the wing opposite to Sanchez. Form shouldn't come into it. You play to the strengths of your team overall and especially in big games, need that balance otherwise you'll look like mugs and we didn't have that.

    It's nothing to do with hindsight and you really can't say we can't blame the manager. We've been saying the same shite about the midfield since we signed Pogba. He has to play in a 3 otherwise we'll be a mess in the middle. It's been 18 months since we've been saying the exact same thing every single time we have a shit performance against a big team, and it's because we keep making the same mistake. And that can only be blamed on the manager.
  39. Feb 1, 2018
    #39

    el3mel Full Member

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    No. The problem was in the midfield and the defense. If you can't build an attack from the back and your midfield is collapsing under pressure don't expect the forward to do anything.
  40. Feb 1, 2018
    #40

    Vilev Banned

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    How so exactly? Name the exact qualities we had back then, in these what 30 minutes was it. The exact attacking features we had.
    By the time Suprs made it 2-0 we had maybe like 2 decent chances, and it was nothing to do with attack, it was overall frenzied state of the game. The ball was hoofed and moved fast quite a lot of time.
    Spurs even in those 30 minutes created more, they pressed high, they intercepted balls of our side, they had runners up front. If you look at their average positions in those 30 minutes they would have been way closer to our our than our players to their. In those 30 minutes Sachnez had more touches of the ball in our own half and the middle that in Spurs's third. How is any of those thing attacking?

    How many times in those 30 minutes we had the ball in the middle, close to the starting point, the circle, i forgot what it's called, and there would be no one up front other than Lukaku. How many times we actually hoofed the ball forward and went long? Quite a lot.