Did Wayne Rooney fulfil his potential?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by sullydnl, Jan 7, 2017.

  1. Jan 11, 2017

    prath92 Banned

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    shearer was a striker for 18 years. Whereas Rooney was flexible enough to play LW, CM, AM, SS, CF etc. I dont think it was a question of drive or committment but the fact that Shearer was a more pure forward than Rooney was. So was Lineker.
  2. Jan 11, 2017

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls

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    He played most of his career in a 442 as one of the strikers and a second striker is a striker. People exaggerate with the positions Rooney played.
  3. Jan 11, 2017

    Raees Sporty Guy

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    Was Wayne Rooney one of the greatest talents Britain has ever had? Was he in terms of potential as good as Charlton, Best, Law... Gascoigne?

    In terms of technical ability, I don't think he was the best footballer we have produced in terms of talent from these shores, but what Wayne had that put him in the very top tier of British talents was this ferocious enthusiasm for the game, a blend of raw brute strength, electric pace, direct dribbling, vicious shooting ability, play-making ability and a brilliant sense of timing, when he burst onto the scene.. he seemed a man destined to star on the biggest of stages. A man-child who shone on the starriest of stages - make no bones about it, out of the group of Messi, Ronaldo, Rooney, Robben (all breaking through at the same time), if there was one of that quartet who you think would naturally be the 'Iniesta' of the big games, or the first to develop into a big household name it would have been Rooney. The way he burst on to the scene, the aggression and directness he demonstrated for example in that match v France in Euro 2004.



    A guy with that level of natural talent, could and should have harnessed that talent into Ballon D'or winning level performances. I don't think he had it in him to win successive Ballon D'ors, or become a better player than Messi or Ronaldo.. I think even a maxed out Rooney would still due to his body type, have slowed down and not had a long career at his peak even if he lived like a monk. He in many ways reminded me of a Kaka, a physical force of nature with some brilliant technical attributes and a good footballing brain, who could have been one of the leading players in the world, or the BPITW for a season or two before fading away.

    The real letdown with Wayne, is that his peak.. never actually came. The 09/10 peak, where he became a number 9.. it was good don't get me wrong, but it wasn't the peak any of us envisaged. The Rooney we saw as a kid wasn't destined to have one or two seasons trying to imitate Alan Shearer, he was meant to have seasons where his goalscoring and his playmaking both hit superstar levels at the same time, like Messi has done season after season. He was meant to be a Gascoigne and Shearer combined for 2-3 seasons.. but injury, lack of attention to fitness, meant his flame didn't burn as bright as it should have done.

    Top scorer for England and United, is that what we all expected and has he delivered? well it is what we expected but we didn't expect him to get to it in the manner he has. TBH he has done it in an undeserved way, forcing himself on various managers and staying long beyond what his form merited. Rooney should not have been at United since 2014, he should not have even been starting for England in World Cup 2014.. so the truth of the matter is, had he been treated on merit.. he would be nowhere near the records. Now that he has the records, well done to him.. regardless of how he has got there, he's done it, so that is great but for people to use it as a way of saying he lived up to his potential.. no. If anything the fact he got the records, despite never reaching the level he should have demonstrates what a truly special player he is or was.

    When I look at his contempories, guys like Torres, David Villa, Drogba, Eto'o.. these days Lewandowski, Aguero, Zlatan, Luis Suarez.. Rooney had the potential to leave some of these guys in the dust. His aggression, his pace, his all-round game.. I remember there was once a time when he was acknowledged to be comfortably better than a Luis Suarez. Now if you said that, people wouid laugh at you. He was a phenomenon but people forget that.

    To summarise, a great player who had the potential to be an all time british legend, but due to exceptionally bad luck with injuries, and his many failings as a man won't be remembered as a better player than the likes of Charlton, Best or as fondly as a Gascoigne. Even if we had 2-3 years of prime, peak Rooney from 23-26 and he then faded into obscurity.. that would have been enough to see him at his best.. but the truth is, injuries robbed us of his true peak and he never really had the discipline to really get himself back into top top physical condition and thus we were left with a good, great but not a legendary version of Rooney for majority of his career.
  4. Jan 11, 2017

    dellboyy Full Member

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    When he was young, he got all the 'next big thing' press like they all do, but that's usually just press hysteria that should be ignored for more realistic goals.

    For me i think he's suffered from two things. Not being alongside people like Ronaldo/Messi (very few players are), and never having the fans totally behind him from the times he's almost done a runner. He'll never be loved as a united great for example.

    However, the guys record speaks for itself. He's scored consistently at every level for club and country, whilst playing in a variety of positions, and also breaking records.

    So it depends what his 'potential' means... he'll always be a step beneath the top in terms of natural skill/ability. However when we bought him, if it was said he'd be with us for this long, with his appearance/goals record and also breaking Charltons record (assuming of course he gets another goal), would you have said that was a let down?

    United fan or not, once he retires, he'll be remembered as one of the all time most successful English strikers, backed up by both his scoring records, and medals won.
  5. Jan 11, 2017

    Ixion Full Member

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    He has 1 Premier League goal this season, 8 last season, 12 the season before...

    These should have been his peak years, he absolutely would have scored more goals if he had taken better care of himself and was as committed as Ronaldo, he'd also have 3-4 more years of goals ahead instead of being on probably his last season. He could/should be sat on at least 30 more PL goals.
  6. Jan 11, 2017

    Dobbs Full Member

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    Was it Barney Ronay who said a young Rooney's body was a happy accident? As in it shouldn't have worked but it did....brilliantly. I think that sums it up.

    I guess as you get older having an unconventional physique can backfire. Tends to be the more "natural" athletes that can go on and on.
  7. Jan 11, 2017

    rotherham_red Full Member

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    No. Young Rooney was a phenom on the level of Messi. He had absolutely everything in him to be the most complete attacking player this era would ever see. He could and should have been able to play every position in the attacking third to a world class level in a pinch.

    The closest thing we'd seen to Di Stefano since the great man hung up his boots.

    Rooney instead became a jack of all trades towards the end and won plenty of trophies, but he never was the same player after that injury against Bayern in 2010 and his contract shenanigans the season after was pretty much the end of him as a truly world class player. He became productive, but it was often to the detriment of team fluidity and his own performance within that team dynamic
  8. Jan 11, 2017

    prath92 Banned

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    he was the second highest English scorer in the PL behind sturridge (17 goals)
    and he was the English player with the highest no. of assists in the PL that season (11 assists)

    he was definitely one of the best England had on form that WC. In fact the 2 goals england scored was created by Rooney and scored by him. Who else was supposed to start instead of him?

    He is a much more involved player than most strikers though. He was always more of a box to box forward in that you could always expect him to run his socks off defensively and offensively. my guess is that takes its toll especally since he has been doing it since 16.
  9. Jan 11, 2017

    Dobbs Full Member

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    Sturridge did start ahead of him. For some reason we then had to find him a spot. You can't really think he was the best option for the left wing role?
  10. Jan 11, 2017

    Raees Sporty Guy

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    He cost us tactically in that first game by sulking out wide. It was a classic case of Rooney disguising his performances, disguising how he tactically hindered the team by grabbing an assist or a goal. Sterling had to play out of position next game and was eventually dropped because Rooney put his foot down re: team selection and tactics.

    We saw the same thing at United, fans being blinded as to him being a hindrance by hiding behind assists/goals.
  11. Jan 11, 2017

    prath92 Banned

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    He should have played behind sturridge. Sterling is clearly a better winger than an AM and should have started as a winger with Rooney central.

    sterling had/has played as a winger almost his entire career for liverpool and man city and when he was asked to do that for England, that was somehow out of position for him?:rolleyes:

    He was dropped in the third game because,iirc, England were already eliminated and Hodgson decided to give the squad players like Shaw Smalling and all a game. Nothing to do with Rooney putting his foot down or whatever. Iirc Rooney himself didnt start that game

    The simple fact was that neither welbeck nor sterling played well, and that had nothing to do with the position. We saw the same thing this euro too. Fans blaming the team performance on Rooney not noticing that none of the other players were playing well. and then blaming Rooney for them not playing well. This Euro it was Kane and Alli.
  12. Jan 11, 2017

    Reiver Full Member

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    Overall, no I don't think he did realise his potential but the degree to which he didn't will depend on your individual view on how great his potential was. When you look back at some of the goals he scored earlier in his career it reminds you of how good he was/how good we thought he'd go on to be.

    In his defence he's probably been the most hyped up English player ever. Could he ever have met everyone's high expectations? I think many of his detractors may see him in a different light when he's gone/retired.

    Either way, I'm happy and proud with his achievements at Utd and I'm sure he is too and rightly so.
  13. Jan 12, 2017

    Sparky_Hughes Donkey Buggering Tyrant who cheats at Monopoly

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    He certainly lived up to his own potential, one look at his cv tells you that, what he didn't live up to where the ridiculous sky high expectations of a success starved English press/public, but no one short of messi or Ronnie could have.
  14. Jan 12, 2017

    Frank Grimes Full Member

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    Top scorer for club and country, no he was a massive flop.
  15. Jan 12, 2017

    stevoc Full Member

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    Welcome to United JoMo!
    Thats a pretty fair assessment of Rooney's career i think. If offered the career he's had at 16 he would have been very happy to take it.
  16. Jan 12, 2017

    Sparky_Hughes Donkey Buggering Tyrant who cheats at Monopoly

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    Wouldn't we all :lol:
  17. Jan 12, 2017

    Sparky10Legend New Member

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    This, the VAST majority (would be interested to see the stats) of his career he has been either SS/CF or Striker.

    My "guess" would be around

    65% at No 10
    25% at No 9
    10% at "other"

    Certainly his peak was at 9/10 so his goals output wasnt negatively affected. Shearer at Blackburn was a force of nature, in my view a good distance better than anything Rooney produced. Thats not to put Rooney down as Shearer was some player for 4/5 years.
  18. Jan 12, 2017

    stevoc Full Member

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    Welcome to United JoMo!
    But as we know centre forward and no9 are not the same thing as second striker or no10 though mate. Look at the year Rooney played as a centre forward in 09/10 he was on course to score 40 goals before his injury against Bayern and ended up scoring 35-36. Now he most likely wouldn't have been that prolific every year. But if he played up there for the majority of his career his goal record would be higher than it is now, probably much higher.

    Rooney's played the majority of his career much deeper not sure why people keep saying he's a centre forward and comparing him to centre forwards.

    Here's his positional stats mate if you are interested. Though they are incomplete they are missing a lot of games from his first 3 seasons.

    http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/wayne-rooney/leistungsdaten/spieler/3332/plus/0?saison=ges
  19. Jan 12, 2017

    Sparky10Legend New Member

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    I certainly get that, and agree with your point.

    The one thing i would say though is that you cant compare him ,either, with say Frank Lampard. Somewhere in between perhaps.
  20. Jan 12, 2017

    Joga Bonito Full Member

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    It definitely wasn't clear cut at that point of time and in the second half of Liverpool's season he was one of their foremost players, and exhibited his best form of his budding career, playing at the tip of the diamond behind Suarez and Sturridge iirc.

    Aye, at times people tend to place a disproportionate amount of blame on him, but the fact is that he was woeful for England in just about every major competition post Euro 2004, as too were most other English players. Rooney's display against Iceland in the Euros has to be one of the worst displays I've seen from a player of his stature on the international stage.
  21. Jan 12, 2017

    AKDevil Full Member

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    Yes. I reckon if you go back to the start and said he would do all he has done, that would be considered fulfilling his potential.
    Also, think too much is expected of wonder kids. If Rooney is considered to have not fulfilled his potential then most players don't have a chance.
    When a kid breaks through it's only natural to think the Sky is the limit and they are going to change the face of football but reality is not many actually live up to the great hopes we have for them, which makes me think those hopes are unrealistic.
  22. Jan 13, 2017

    stevoc Full Member

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    Welcome to United JoMo!
    Yeah the position he plays is more a deep striker or second striker as most people say. He's doesn't really play as a no10 the way most attacking midfielders who are usually described as no10's play.

    Things used to be a lot simpler in English football, you were a midfielder, a winger or a striker now theres probably dozens of attacking positions.
  23. Jan 13, 2017

    UnrelatedPsuedo I pity the poor fool who stinks like I do!

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    Often think that players that stay somewhere past their best years are treated harsher than others that spend a key 3 years somewhere.

    Had Rooney just passed through the club and given us the best 4-5 seasons of his career he'd be held in far higher regard.
  24. Jan 13, 2017

    MrBest Full Member

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    He burst into the prem at just 16. That alone is rare and for the 10 years that followed was an exceptional player.

    The last 5 years have not been great for Wayne, he has looked leggy, uninterested and just seems to have lost a lot of ability and hunger (for the game not food). The one stat that has improved is his leadership or ability to influence by him just being there. He has always been a vocal person

    The days when we had Ronaldo he would tirelessly create chnaces for him, scoop up his mistakes. He was actually a 21 year old in a 27 year olds body! That probably makes him 38 or 39 now.

    He was probably the best teenage talent that England has ever had, not a messi or ronaldo but certainly in my top 5 globally. His main downfall has been his body type and his personal life (weight grannys prossies fags booze). If he had less exposed personal circunstances I reckon he would of lasted an extra 2 years then started his decline.

    Saying that, you cannot really blame him for making mistakes as we are all human and thats part of the package. He for me witj certainty reached the heights of his ability between 21 years and 26. The young rooney bossed games, bullied players, darted threw crowds, knew how to throw his weight, the aggression, the passion and technical ability was all there. He was a joy to watch in his prime. Without him, would ronaldo have scored 31 league goals? No way! He did the dog work, cleaned up the play. 2009/2010/2011 was his best seasons for me (if I remember correctly).

    I hope when he does retire he comes back to united and trains with the younger lot. His influence is second to none and the amoung of recognition and respect he has gained is unparalleled.
  25. Jan 13, 2017

    The BlackGaijin New Member

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    People actually believe that Luis biting Suarez is already better that Rooney at his peak? Well, to each his own. Back on topic..

    I think it is unfair to judge Rooney on the performance of the national team. Not even Maradona could have done rescued the English team in the last decade. England has been getting increasingly shit for some time starting with the managerial appointments to the players and the tactics.
    Messi can’t win a world cup playing next to Aguero, Higuain, tevez and Di Maria. Somehow Rooney was supposed to do the same playing next to crouch, Glen Johnson, Henderson or Andros Townsend.?

    Yes, the man fulfilled his potential. He peaked early and he has regressed since but at his best he was unplayable.
  26. Jan 13, 2017

    CG1010 Full Member

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    Top post. Enjoyed reading that.