Did Wayne Rooney fulfil his potential?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by sullydnl, Jan 7, 2017.

  1. Jan 7, 2017

    Livewire1974 If it moves, report it.

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    Yes. Considering he sacrificed himself many times for the team and his achievements, it will be a very long time till we see the likes of him again.
  2. Jan 7, 2017

    Sandikan aka sex on the beach

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    You see some people say stuff like he only got the goalscoring record for staying so long.

    That's an amazingly harsh thing to say, bearing in mind he was never an out and out goalscorer.

    To put things in context, Martial was praised to the hilt for scoring 17 last season.

    To match Rooney's 249, you'd need 19 a season...for 13 years!
  3. Jan 7, 2017

    Sandikan aka sex on the beach

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    It's very hard to see anyone beating the record now.

    It's take Van Nistelrooy/Ronaldo peak modes, and staying there for 6-7years!
  4. Jan 7, 2017

    wr8_utd :'(

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    Maybe but well everyone doesn't live up to their early potential but imo Rooney has. Messi even in his younger days just looked on a different level to anyone else.
  5. Jan 7, 2017

    simonhch Horrible boss

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    Most players don't fully establish themselves until they are in their early 20s, including many great ones. People forget that Rooney was a key player for club and country at 17. If you look at his prime years from 17-27 then his career is phenomenal, and you'd say his performances over that span were consistently top 5-10 in the world. Then look at his trophy haul, and the variety of positions he's played. People forget how much of a catalyst and facilitator he was in the Ronaldo, Tevez and Berbatov years. Often moving out to the left wing in big matches to compensate for Ronnie's lack of work-rate.

    I know he fell out with Fergie and flirted with leaving, but so did a lot of great players in our time. His form since he was 28 hasn't been great, but he has so many miles on the clock. When i watch him play, even badly, I still see a player who runs non-stop and gives it all for the shirt. His frustrating touches and dribbles have annoyed me greatly in recent years, but how much am i going to blame him for successive manager's not having the balls to drop him? What's he supposed to do? Drop himself? Mourinho is the first manager to come in and treat him like another other player, and consequently he's produced a few performances this season that hark back to days of yore.

    Legend. You don't accomplish all he has unless you are absolutely focused and driven in your field. He earned his records through hard work and dedication and, as a player, deserves our respect - however grudgingly.
  6. Jan 7, 2017

    wr8_utd :'(

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    I think if Rooney had played purely as a striker for his entire time here, he'd probably have around 50 goals more to his name. He was good enough to have been our first choice striker for a long time.
  7. Jan 7, 2017

    Adisa Full Member

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    I agree. Can't see the record going anytime soon. Can't even see any player coming here that can match that.
  8. Jan 7, 2017

    Jake Mine's too big and gay.

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    But your basing you answer to the question against a freak player. No one might ever be as good as Messi again. They might, but also they might not. Same with Ronaldo. Two players of a generation who have pushed records what we knew to the absolute limit.

    He is one of the greatest players of his generation. You are just annoyed of his last year or so and can't see it.
  9. Jan 7, 2017

    wr8_utd :'(

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    Absolutely this. I see so many people calling him fat, unfit , not focussed on the football and always drinking and smoking but you don't have a career spanning 600 games, 13 years and 300 goals if you're not a thorough professional.
  10. Jan 7, 2017

    wr8_utd :'(

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    If a player came in and stayed for around 10 years and he was a quality player he could but in this age, who really stays at one club for 10 years? Ronaldo was someone who would have broken the record but he only saw United as his route to Spain.
  11. Jan 7, 2017

    sullydnl Ross Kemp's caf ID

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    To my mind the problem is less that he failed to match Messi/Ronaldo and more that he failed to match several other players from his generation too. That for me is a sign that he fell short of his potential, regardless of what Messi and Ronaldo have done.
  12. Jan 7, 2017

    Sandikan aka sex on the beach

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    He's had a great career for us here.
    Yes the last few seasons haven't been as exciting as the first few, but no one carries that same excitement throughout. Even Messi in a couple of years will ease down, and won't excite as much. It happens.

    It's so easy to forget the early day Rooney, the 18 year old ripping it up for England, how you'd panic if he wasn't playing for club or country.
    The good thing now, is that he's not in the most important 4 or 5 players in the team, so we can utilise him in a more effective way, both for him and ourselves
  13. Jan 7, 2017

    Sandikan aka sex on the beach

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    I don't agree with that last bit. I doubt he came here TO GET to Spain. I think that move opened up later as his stock increased.

    Otherwise, as a Potuguese player, surely he'd have had ample chances to go to Spain and build there anyway?
    Never depict us as some sort of stepping stone. He's probably the only player we've ever sold at their peak who we didn't really want to.
  14. Jan 7, 2017

    Adisa Full Member

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    Biggest reason Rooney's record will stand for ages. Hid g/pg record is not really special but hes sustained it pretty much for 13 years. Hats of to him tbh and it's 249 not out. Who knows the number it's going to be by the time he leaves.
  15. Jan 7, 2017

    wr8_utd :'(

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    Yes he's started to go downhill but I also think our poor football hasn't helped. He's always looked better playing with pace around him and the last 3 years have been awful. Even over the last 2 months he's put in a lot of good performances and he linked up well even today with the youngsters and Mata. If managed well, he can have an impact for us in our cup games and maybe the odd league game as well.
  16. Jan 7, 2017

    Jake Mine's too big and gay.

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    Honestly, what a quality post. I would try and write my own about how I feel about Rooney but why bother. Summed up my feelings perfectly.

    My pleasure to have witnessed his career every week. Has done more than his fair share for this great football club.
  17. Jan 7, 2017

    Sandikan aka sex on the beach

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    The great thing this season is that there are plenty of extra games to go, without it looking like he's been completely marginalised.

    He could potentially have another 3-4 FA Cup games, 3 league cup games, and another...9 Europa games to get involved in!
  18. Jan 7, 2017

    wr8_utd :'(

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    Playing in Spain was always his "dream". Maybe we weren't exactly a stepping stone but you just always knew he'd head there the minute he got a chance.
    I think a goal every 2 games is pretty decent for someone who has not played as the main striker for the entirety of his career. Ofcourse in the days of Ronaldo and Messi it can look average but I think it's pretty good.
  19. Jan 7, 2017

    wr8_utd :'(

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    He's also one Zlatan suspension/injury away from having to play as our striker in all probability. He will get games for sure.
  20. Jan 7, 2017

    sullydnl Ross Kemp's caf ID

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    Good post but not really what the thread is about. You can think everything you've said is true while also feeling that he had the potential to be even better.
  21. Jan 7, 2017

    Sandikan aka sex on the beach

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    I think most of his appearances will be shoehorned out wide, or off the main man like today.

    Can't see him going up front really. Just doesn't suit these days.
  22. Jan 7, 2017

    Adisa Full Member

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    I have been very hard on him. But, I also think our decision to shop in the bargain basement in Fergie's last few years had a significant impact on him. Between 2009 and 2012, he should have been playing with better attackers. Even though we won 2 titles during that period, our transfer policy leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. I think we would have seen an even better Rooney if, he was playing with better players.
  23. Jan 7, 2017

    dichinero Full Member

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    It's a difficult one. Had he had a great career, statistically it's a yes. Potential wise it's a no for me. One can't ignore the last 4/5 years as part of his career where peaked and has been on a dramatic decile since when he really should have been peaking. Great achievements but not what I'd call a fulfilled potential, football wise.
  24. Jan 7, 2017

    Adebesi Full Member

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    He's had a great career but it could have been even better.

    That will be a significant disappointment, not an afterthought. He's been very, very disappointing for England.
  25. Jan 7, 2017

    Acole9 Outstanding

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    I think he has yes, although I think if you ask England fans they'll probably disagree because they seem to think England were good enough to win the World Cup for some reason. Does anyone know if he has got to the all time goal tally quicker than Charlton?
  26. Jan 7, 2017

    simonhch Horrible boss

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    Potential is such an amorphous concept by definition, that unless you attribute specific metrics of success, how are you able to judge whether a player has fulfilled theirs or not? In Rooney's case, where did he fall short? One more league title? Two more Champions Leagues? Ten more goals? More rabonas? Or are we back to open ended interpretations of potential, such as 'he could've entertained me more' or 'he should've stayed brilliant for longer', without having any appreciable way of determining if those things were even possible. In that case all I believe we can do is look back at Rooney's career, his achievements, honours, and contributions and say is this a befitting denouement of a once promising 17 year old football star, for whom we all had high hopes? I am of the opinion that yes it is. In fact if you took me back in time to when he first signed and said "Look at this player, look at all his talent, if he goes on to win 5 league titles, a Champions League with your club, become its all time record goalscorer, as well as England's all time record goalscorer; would you say his performances have met early expectations of his promise?".... I'd have given you a resounding "YES!".
  27. Jan 7, 2017

    Adisa Full Member

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    I think it's very harsh rating a player based on international form. His sheer numbers for England are very good. Although most of his goals come against nothing sides, you can say the same about Ronaldo.
  28. Jan 7, 2017

    Fully Fledged Full Member

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    Goals scored(will get the record outright), Medals won and captain of the biggest club in the world. Yeah of course he reached his potential.
  29. Jan 7, 2017

    Adebesi Full Member

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    He was good in qualifying but didn't turn up in tournaments. Look, many English players will be disappointed they didn't win anything but some will feel they gave a good account of themselves. I don't think Rooney will.
  30. Jan 7, 2017

    red_devil83 Full Member

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    85% He peaked early and fell off a cliff after that
  31. Jan 7, 2017

    Jake Mine's too big and gay.

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    Nail on the head.

    I don't actually think I could have asked more of him.

    I think his career has been slightly tarnished by social media and media. It's so easy fluctuate publics perception of footballers when all a lot of us do all day is read/discuss performances.

    30/40 years ago I don't think this was the case and people just watched players with their eyes and made their own minds up rather than antics in the paper.
  32. Jan 7, 2017

    Ducklegs Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid

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    I think he has been great.

    Doesn't change the fact he has shit the bed pretty much for the last 2 and a bit years.
  33. Jan 7, 2017

    Luso17 New Member

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    No, clearly not. Back in 2003/2004 he was considered to have the potential of being the best player in the world. Compare him to Ronaldo and Messi who at the time, were probably seen as having the same potential. Some might say that Messi has met his potential, and Ronaldo probably exceeded his. Rooney, unfortunately has fallen short. This is not to say that he hasn't had an amazing career and will go down as a great player.
  34. Jan 7, 2017

    mancan92 Full Member

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    This is far off for me. Rooney has been hugely involved sure but he has never been our outstanding player in any of our successful seasons and I think that is a huge indigent that even berbatov managed to be more influential in a title winning season than rooney has.
  35. Jan 7, 2017

    Eddy_JukeZ Full Member

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    I have been hard on him recently, but he's definitely a United legend.

    I mean when we signed him, did people think he'd beat out Charlton for most goals scored? I doubt it.

    And he's going to. He's more than fulfilled his potential.

    I think after Ronaldo left and before RVP came, we slightly wasted his prime by not being active in the transfer market. He was our best player those 3 seasons and carried us at times.
  36. Jan 7, 2017

    Adisa Full Member

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    Most people thought Rooney was more talented than Ronaldo. I know people will deny it in hindsight but it was certainly the case.
  37. Jan 7, 2017

    TheNewEra Knows Kroos' mentality

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    Bobby Charlton will always be a bigger legend than Rooney.

    But Rooney is a United legend. He's won a lot of trophies, scored a lot of goals and had some really memorable performances, just the last 2 years have been difficult to watch.
  38. Jan 7, 2017

    adexkola American Arse

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    Everything this bloke said.
  39. Jan 7, 2017

    Eddy_JukeZ Full Member

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    I think it's very close between those 2.

    I think Berbatov that season has become slightly overrated.

    He had 20 goals. 13 of them came in 4 games(Liverpool hat-trick, @Blackpool 2 goals in the comeback win, 3 vs Birmingham, 5 vs Blackburn).

    So he had 7 in the other 28. And he did not feature much in the closing stages of that season(tbf did score a winner vs Bolton at OT).

    I think Rooney was more influential than him the 2nd half of the season. Berbatov the 1st half.
  40. Jan 7, 2017

    Eckers99 Michael Corleone says hello

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    What he's achieved still doesn't determine whether he fulfilled his potential. The question wasn't, 'Did Rooney achieve enough?' Or 'Did Rooney try hard enough?' it was about him fulfilling his potential.

    For a lot of people, no matter how good he was, the answer to the OP is no.