Does anyone still think Shaw is better then Rose?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Carl, Jan 4, 2017.

  1. Mar 12, 2019

    ZupZup Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    1,544
    Location:
    W3104
    Shaw is coming along really nicely. He's still only 23 and this is the first season for us that he has been consistently first choice. Until this season he has never made more than 20 appearances for us in all competitions in a single season. He certainly has it in him to be the best left back in the league and as long as he stays injury free. I think he'll just keep improving over the next few years.
  2. Mar 12, 2019

    Enigma_87 You know who

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Messages:
    20,909
    defensively Robertson is a bit shit.
  3. Mar 12, 2019

    Tom Van Persie No relation

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2012
    Messages:
    9,551
    Well you've clearly not been watching much United this season. Shaw has been brilliant.
  4. Mar 12, 2019

    Grande Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,927
    Location:
    The Land of Do-What-You-Will
    What does ‘a bit shit’ actually mean? Enigma_87 is better without really trying? Not quite as good as Maldini at his best? I honestly don’t know what it means these days.
  5. Mar 12, 2019

    Enigma_87 You know who

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Messages:
    20,909
    He's very different to Shaw. Probably the best crosser out wide in the league if we're comparing full backs. His passing game is excellent and is like playmaker from the back. However to me he has always look defensively suspect - both in positioning and decision making.

    Depends on what you really need from a full back. Shaw is to me much better defensively albeit inferior in the attacking phase.

    As a wing back Robertson is a non brainer, but as a full back I'd probably take Shaw all things considered.
  6. Mar 12, 2019

    B20 HEY EVERYONE I IGNORE SOMEONE LOOK AT ME

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2003
    Messages:
    23,112
    Location:
    Disney Land
    Supports:
    Liverpool
    What?

    Robbo is outstanding defensively
  7. Mar 12, 2019

    Enigma_87 You know who

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Messages:
    20,909
    Disagree here.
  8. Mar 12, 2019

    RedSky likes to kick 10-year-olds Scout

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    60,630
    Location:
    Hereford FC (Soccermanager)
    I dont get it either. *shrugs*

    No idea why this thread was bumped, should be locked.
  9. Mar 12, 2019

    Red Star One Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2017
    Messages:
    1,389
    Location:
    Lux/Warsaw
    Agree. He’s been splendid this season
  10. Mar 12, 2019

    Grande Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,927
    Location:
    The Land of Do-What-You-Will
    So ‘a bit shit’ means ‘as a full back you’d take Shaw, all things considered’? I keep struggling with the nuances of the English language.
  11. Mar 12, 2019

    Frank Grimes Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2014
    Messages:
    4,760
    Location:
    Newbies 15/16 FPL Champion.
    Defensively he is as good as Shaw imo. He is just a better player, no non United fan would say that Shaw is better.
  12. Mar 12, 2019

    Enigma_87 You know who

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Messages:
    20,909
    Yeah, probably put it too harsh on him. Shaw is younger and to me the better defensive player.

    As I said as a wing back or someone who is expected to bring width in attack and more attacking contribution is not a contest at the moment, but as a balanced (and more defensive full back) I prefer Shaw from what I've seen from him this season.

    Robertson seems to get a tad overrated lately to me with even higher hype than Rose two three years ago(albeit deservedly so at some extend).
  13. Mar 12, 2019

    Frank Grimes Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2014
    Messages:
    4,760
    Location:
    Newbies 15/16 FPL Champion.
    Robertson is not a wing back, he is a full back. Liverpool play 4 at the back the vast majority of the time. The reason he looks like a wing back is because he is so proactive going forward, as well as being good defensively.
  14. Mar 12, 2019

    Enigma_87 You know who

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Messages:
    20,909
    Liverpool are very proactive as a team and their higher press is different to our game. They also enjoy more time on the ball hence he is looking much better being more attack minded.
  15. Mar 12, 2019

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2014
    Messages:
    34,538
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Prefer Robertson. Shaw is better defending one on one but Robertson is better in attack. For that reason, I'll choose Robertson.
  16. Mar 12, 2019

    Frank Grimes Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2014
    Messages:
    4,760
    Location:
    Newbies 15/16 FPL Champion.
    That's true. Shaw needs to improve his delivery to be mentioned at the same level, the one he gave Lukaku v Arsenal needs to be more the rule than the exception. His assist record since he joined is not a pretty stat.
  17. Mar 12, 2019

    Bwuk Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2012
    Messages:
    11,163
    Location:
    Dunfermline, Fife
    Robertson over Shaw any day of the week.
  18. Mar 12, 2019

    Terminator New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2015
    Messages:
    925
    Shaw is definitely better than Robertson defensively, Robertson gets beaten way too easily 1 on 1. Offensively, Robertson is a class apart though.
  19. Mar 12, 2019

    Ban Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2015
    Messages:
    22,318
    Location:
    Zagreb, HR
    Robertson is the best LB in the world right now.
  20. Mar 12, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2018
    Messages:
    5,546
    Supports:
    Tottenham
    No he isn't. I swear people are just saying 'robertson is dodgy defensively' because he's really good going forward.

    Stats never tell the full story, but if you have a look at their respective tackle/interceptions/clearances numbers, they're very similar, with the edge going to Robertson in a couple of areas and Shaw in others. I do think Shaw probably has the edge defensively (he's a beast 1on1, no doubt about it) but Robertson is definitely not a bit shit, and easily one of the most complete fullbacks around.
  21. Mar 12, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2018
    Messages:
    5,546
    Supports:
    Tottenham
    When? I've watched Liverpool in a lot of games this season and it's very rare that I see a wide player get the better of Robertson. Sometimes he gets caught high up the pitch because of Liverpool's system and his role in that, but I never see him get consistently skinned at all. My impression from watching him has always been that he's a very solid player from a defensive standpoint, and a big part of why their defensive record is so good now. Replacing that clown Moreno (then milner at lb?) for Robertson was one of the best moves they ever made.
  22. Mar 12, 2019

    el3mel Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    Messages:
    25,655
    Location:
    Egypt
    Robertson is one of the best LBs in the world now. That's not exaggeration. As for Shaw he has been doing great recently. He's become more solid defensively. Still needs more offensive output though.
  23. Mar 12, 2019

    Enigma_87 You know who

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Messages:
    20,909
    I've been very harsh on Shaw myself two years ago, but he has improved immensely - both staying fit and also being consistent enough to become one of the best left backs in the league. He should be able to pick up his attacking game as well, as it is one segment he's falling short at the moment compared to say Robertson.
  24. Mar 12, 2019

    Enigma_87 You know who

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Messages:
    20,909
    As you mentioned stats doesn't tell the whole story because of the way Liverpool play. He's more likely to make interception up high the pitch rather to defend deep and soak pressure - in a way he will be much more tested 1 on 1.

    As I said, perhaps I put it too harshly but for us I'd pick Shaw given how we play at the moment. If we had VVD as a CB or a more solid and comfortable pair and a midfield shield of 3 very competent and high energy midfielders Liverpool have, Robertson will definitely be the better pick.
  25. Mar 12, 2019

    Jeffthered Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,100
    Shaw is much better.. but not a Danny Rose, nor Robertson level yet. Shaaw doesn't seem to have the confidence the other two have. The cross that Shaw put in for Lukaku to miss early on Sunday, is something he should be doing far, far, far more often. I just sense that Shaw doesn't impose his dynamic and energy onto the team. Compare to Heinze, and Evra.

    You need that personality. BUT... I do feel Shaw has grown, immeasurably, after an awful first couple of seasons (not his fault.. injuries, Mourinho etc) , and his confidence is still growing. I wouldn't change him though, no way, because he is just, just beginning to make that shirt his own. He has the ability to hit four, five goals a season too.
  26. Mar 12, 2019

    shamans Hoser

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2010
    Messages:
    12,157
    Location:
    Just want to see Scholes hit a volley.
    I have a problem with stuff like this though. One game Mbappe doesn't go wild and it becomes a label that Shaw pockets Mbappe. I think his showing that day was excellent but not long ago Rafeal was known as having pocketed Ribery and where is he now?

    I just think people are getting a little excited and there's a lot of games left for Shaw to prove his consistency. Still like I said, he's a very good LB and is good enough for us right now. Just lacks that special something for me that the best LB's had over the years.
  27. Mar 12, 2019

    CM10 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2014
    Messages:
    3,211
    I've seen a couple of defensive lapses from Robertson in recent games but you'd be silly to argue against him as best LB in the league at the moment. His fitness levels are insane and he's comfortably the most productive full-back in an attacking sense.

    I'm still confident Shaw will get there one day for us though. He has become a reliable defensive option and his attacking game has steadily improved since Solskjaer returned.
  28. Mar 12, 2019

    AR87 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Messages:
    2,775
    Location:
    Has fallen for Fred way too soon
    This doesn't mean much of anything. Most Non United fans would have also told you Pogba was worthless before Jose left. What fans think, even a majority of them, doesn't mean they're right.
  29. Mar 12, 2019

    The Cat Full Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2017
    Messages:
    3,032
    Location:
    Fighting the good fight in South Wales.
    I'm happy to see how he kicks on next season.

    LB is now not at the top of our list of areas to address this Summer.
  30. Mar 12, 2019

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2018
    Messages:
    5,546
    Supports:
    Tottenham

    He's solid statistically though, even compared to other fullbacks for teams which play in a similar fashion. I just don't think it rings true at all that he's bad in a defensive sense, he's strong in 1vs1 situations and reads the game pretty well.
  31. Mar 12, 2019

    Grande Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,927
    Location:
    The Land of Do-What-You-Will
    Ok, more clear to me what you mean then. I actually didn’t know Robertson was older than Shaw. I too think Shaw is better defensively now, and I also think Shaw has a higher ceiling, attacking wise. I think Robertson, who has impressed me, is helped by being smarter than Shaw to begin with, and being played by a manager who picked him for a role in a team that is well developed.

    I think the last month or so is the best we’ve seen Shaw, and I do have high hopes he’ll consoludate and debelopnthat under the current management.
  32. Mar 12, 2019

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    70,092
    Location:
    india
    Except I've caveated my post adequately enough. Just because he's got a long way to go and many seasons before he can genuinely be hailed as a top class LB it doesn't mean we can't acknowledge his short term accomplishments. And I didn't say he had Mbappe in his pocket. I said he had the better of the encounter and certainly did better than most fullbacks manage.
  33. Mar 12, 2019

    worldinmotion66 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    Messages:
    1,466
    That is harsh. I really rate your opinion on here but I think you're wrong on this one.
  34. Mar 12, 2019

    Hughie77 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2017
    Messages:
    462
    Shaw all day in all aspects of his game improved and will get better and better, didn't give the Egyptian a kick at OT, as for Rose and Robinson , Robinson is very good modern day left back, can get exposed at times because he moves forward more than back, but still very good. I still have Shaw as a left back can do both .
  35. Mar 12, 2019

    AfroBuffalo New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2019
    Messages:
    91
    Shaw against Robertson for some key stats this season

    This season in the prem.

    Luke Shaw - 24 appearances, Av per game - 2.2 tackles, 0.8 interceptions, 1.5 fouls given away, 2.7 clearances, 0.6 dribbled past, 0.4 blocks - he also makes 1.1 key passes per game & has 2 assists

    Robertson - 28 appearances, Av per game - 2.5 tackles, 0.9 interceptions, 0.6 fouls given away, 1.5 clearances, 0.9 dribbled past, 0.1 blocks - he also makes 1.4 key passes per game & has 8 assists

    I know the thread is Shaw against Rose, but addressing comments further up
  36. Mar 12, 2019

    Frank Grimes Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2014
    Messages:
    4,760
    Location:
    Newbies 15/16 FPL Champion.
    Most neutral observers I mean not rival fans.
  37. Mar 12, 2019

    P Jones's Other Left Foot New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2019
    Messages:
    9
    Just addressing the original point here - I believe Shaw is establishing himself as the premier English left back in the league and will likely secure that spot for England in the coming months.

    Some have suggested he has had a poor start to his United career but he was largely our standout player under LvG up until his leg break. His fitness and Mourinho has played a part in his slow progress back but he appears to be hitting his stride now, suring up the defence (along with finding consistency with our CB pairing).

    Rose by contrast is having his own struggles with returning from injury and not found the form he had in previous seasons. Regardless of that, i generally believe Rose's talent is exaggerated and his perceived quality a product of a well drilled Spurs side that place emphasis on their full backs to go forward and play to his strengths.
  38. Mar 12, 2019

    AR87 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Messages:
    2,775
    Location:
    Has fallen for Fred way too soon
    Even then I don't think it's relevant. Team performance always affects how people view individual performance. IMO Shaw has been top class virtually all season, but because of issues caused by Mourinho's tactics/tinkering, and the less than stellar defensive play by Matic, it didn't get the credit it deserved. There's very little between Shaw and Robertson as far as I'm concerned. Robertson edges it for me, but it's not a clear cut case.
  39. Mar 12, 2019

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2011
    Messages:
    35,115
    Location:
    Canada
    Personal opinion. The amount of costly mistakes he make is ridiculous, prefer even current day Ashley Young over him at right back without a doubt.
  40. Mar 12, 2019

    Frank Grimes Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2014
    Messages:
    4,760
    Location:
    Newbies 15/16 FPL Champion.

    He hasn't been top class imo( his attacking play and set piece delivery have been generally poor), played a bit better lately and hopefully he continues to progress.

    I'm an Ireland football fan and we played Scotland a few years back, Robertson was immense in the game in Hampden and has kicked on since then (knew he was a great signing for Liverpool). I've never seen Shaw perform to that standard and feel he is a level below Robertson, as of now. You can keep saying that peoples opinions don't matter but then you have to accept that your opinion might just be wrong also, the majority isn't always right but it usually is.