Dominoes draft: Grand Finale - Tuppet vs Lord SInister

Discussion in 'Draft Games Forum' started by Enigma_87, Nov 28, 2017.

?

Who would win in the following draft game with all players at their peak?

Poll closed Nov 29, 2017.
  1. Team Tuppet

    41.5%
  2. Team Lord SInister

    58.5%
  1. Nov 28, 2017
    #1

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    TEAM TUPPET
    [​IMG]

    VS

    TEAM LORD SINISTER
    [​IMG]

    TACTICS TEAM TUPPET

    Its hard to actually pinpoint the positions of players in static formation pictures when you have two players with as unpredictable movements as Cruyff and Boniek. Still the nominal formation is 5-2-3 with a rock solid defense and fluid unpredictable attack.

    Here are some questions I anticipate from a look on formation and their answers -

    Q. Why is Vogts playing as DM, I thought he was an RB ?
    A
    . He is not playing as DM or midfielder in general. He is a free defender on a man marking mission against Maradona. Although he was comfortable both as DM and CB and has played in those positions before. Davids and Ocwirk are playing as central midfielders in a double pivot system. Vogts' positions is hard to pin-point on the tactical picture as he takes his positional cue from Maradona's position.

    Q. Does Vogts have any hope of containing Maradona ?
    A
    . Maybe, peak Maradona is not someone you can contain easily. But FWIW man marking has made a difference against many all time greats in big matches. It doesn't necessarily require the biggest names either. Lambert marked Zidane out of the game in CL final, Pele was often marked by Bedin with great success, Zico & Maradona by Gentile, Eusebio by Stiles and of course Cruyff by Vogts in a world cup final. Marking is not a full proof method for sure but it does work and someone as dangerous as Maradona just can't be left open. Its also important to note that while Vogts is marking Maradona he is not the only one minding him, He has a solid defense behind him and a great defensive midfield shield in front.

    So then the question becomes of Vogts' ability to mark and that is beyond reproach. One of the truly great markers of the game, his pace, defensive intelligence and most importantly dogged determination which earned him the name of "Der Terrier" was behind him being such an excellent marker. He was in general a great defender, probably the greatest German defenders not named Beckenbauer. His 2 times German player of the year in the era of Muller & Beckenbauer shows as much and it was his passion and determination in part which drove the excellent Gladbach team of 70s. As mentioned before he has done it against Cruyff, but also the likes of Muller and Keegan. Here's an excerpt from a Bonhof interview -

    Bonhof then adds:" Yeah, but you have to add, that Gerd quite often played defender against Gladbach"
    Interviewer: Gerd Müller in defense?
    Bonhof: Well, at least I've watched Gerd staying in defense and Franz asking him:"What are you doing here, go forward." Gerd's answer:"I don't want anymore, you can go and play against Berti".



    Q. But the opposition still have Messi, even assuming Maradona is subdued how do you stop Messi ?
    A
    . I am certain that if any side has Maradona and Messi on the pitch at the same time, Maradona is the one who is going to take control. Messi is very dangerous but we can not put man marking on everyone or they would just destroy our defensive line. Messi would be dealt with more team effort. He is directly in front of the greatest defensive left back of all time Maldini, who is right footed and adapt at playing at CB. This makes him an ideal opponent to deal with right wing Messi who is often going to cut inside. When Maldini gets beaten Messi would be facing another complete defender in Thuram. In general Messi is operating in a zone Marshalled by Maldini-Davids-Thuram, its as solid as it could be and with this I think it won't be the first time Messi would look completely ineffective in a team not named Barcelona.

    Q. I don't understand your attack, how is that front 3 supposed to work ?
    A
    . Its a fluid hard working attack that is designed to drag LS' defenders around with dribbling, work rate and creativity. The inspiration is 2002 Brazil Ronaldo-Rivaldo-Ronaldinho attack. Ronaldo would be the number 9, not the 2002 version but his peak pre-injury version where he was one man attack able to create and finish chances. Cruyff is the creative forward. He is still the primary playmaker of my team in that he is the one who is setting the rhythm for my team and he is the one everybody looks to pass the ball. With Ronaldo up front he is free from the burden of scoring here and could use his devastating dribbling and the greatest tactical mind in the history of game to drop deep, pull wide, stretch the defense and create chances.

    Q. Explain Boniek's role, Why is he playing as number 10 ?
    A
    . Boniek is not the number 10 in traditional sense of the word. As mentioned before our trio is inspired from Brazil 2002 and Boniek's playing the very specialized Ronaldinho role of providing width on both sides (more on right side). In addition with his insane work rate he would press Beckenbauer when he has the ball. Beckenbauer is probably going to start as Libero and is important for LS' build up from deep, Boneik would look to close him down and hurt LS buildup game.

    That is a tall order but Boniek is perfectly suitable for it. He was simply a fabulous player with deadly speed, guile, determination, technical skill. He was best defined as a 'hard working-attack minded footballer', rather than as a 'great winger' or 'playmaker'. His ability to slip past defenders as well as work rate is the reason that we are able to sacrifice one of our player for man marking mission. Although he is not the shiniest name on the pitch, he is exactly the kind of attacker that is needed to provide platform for Ronaldo and Cruyff. Overall I think despite having slightly lesser names our attacking trio of Cruyff-Ronaldo-Boniek as a group is better than Maradona-Kocsis-Messi.

    Q. Your team has no width, how would you stretch LS defense ?
    A
    . I anticipate this question because it seem from formation picture that there are no wide players in my team. It doesn't take too much to see thats not true. An attack comprised of players as dynamic and comfortable drifting in wide areas as Cruyff, Ronaldo & Boniek is never narrow. Ronaldo was godlike picking the ball from wide areas and running at defense. Cruyff's position on formation picture is always for notational purpose he would as usual drift all over the pitch especially on the left side. And as I mentioned before while attacking Boniek would act as wide forward pulling toward either side as needed but more on right. Combined with Zambrotta's attacking contribution on the right side we have plenty of width on the pitch.

    Other notes:
    1
    . Blanc and Thuram were both fantastic in air, Kocsis especially without the all time service of Czibor / Budai is going to find it hard to dominate in air. He was a good complete striker but to think that his greatest ability was not heading is basically completely overlooking stats. I mentioned in this post that he scored around 400+ out of 493+ goals with his head, also score almost all of his most important goals with head. He in my opinion would want the ball to be crossed in the air all the time which is basically opposite of what Messi wants from the service. One of them is bound to get very frustrated.

    2. Davids would be playing purely defensive midfielder while Ocwirk would be the deep lying playmaker. There is a lot of pace in our attack and with two brilliant passers from deep in Blanc and Ocwirk we can do a quick counter attack as well.

    3. While attacking Vogts would drop deep as RB allowing Zambrotta to go forward. He is mostly going to battle it out with Carlos with support from Boniek.

    4. The records of our attack vs LS defense. Ronaldo was probably the only attacker who gave Nesta nightmares, famously dueling and winning in UEFA 98 final.

    That match had been hyped as a meeting between the best attacker and the best defender in Serie A. Ronaldo destroyed his opponent. “It was the worst experience of my career,” he said. Nesta watched the match repeatedly on video, trying to work out what he had done wrong, until he finally had his Eureka moment: there was nothing anyone could have done. “Ronaldo,” he said, “was simply unstoppable.”

    Cruyff and Beckenbauer were the two biggest stars in 70s and when they met each other in 1973 European cup QF it was Cruyff who led his team to aggregate 5-2 victory. They met again in 74 in WC final and this time Beckenbauer was the one to get the victory but the credit to subdue Cruyff goes to Vogts who is in our team.


    TACTICS TEAM LORD SINISTER

    De Gea will be the calming and superhuman presence in the goal with his world class shot-stopping and command of area.

    Nesta will be replacing Stam, and he along with Förster will be told to keep tight, closely marking their zones, and not allowing Tuppet's attackers to attack the goal.

    The idea is to use Beckenbauer in a more advance role, so he can not only protect our back, but also start attacks from deep, engaging in the midfield more than he did in the last two outing. With Tigana as in the semis will now be unleashed being more dynamic and box-to-box, while Keane will be a more looking more to be settling the game with trying to keep the shape of the midfield. These four guys will look to pack the midfield and not give breathing space to Tuppet's midfielders while building a platform for Maradona, Messi and Kocsis to dominate pat's defense, ably supported by overlapping Gerets and Carlos. Gerets and Messi will form a partnership attacking the left side of pat, while Gerets will also track back to support the right side of our defense. Carlos will be owning the left flank like he always does, and since there is a lack of true right winger in pat's team, it will be an advantage , as Carlos will be marauding the left side looking to stretch the game and crossing to either Kocsis or stretching the play by , while he has the speed and stamina to get track back supporting the defense. Maradona will be operating in the between the midfield line and defense line of pat exploiting the space between them, and if they look to press/mark him, it will give room to Tigana or Keane to charge forward, depending on the sides. When on ball he will look to dribble and slip the ball for Messi and Kocsis to finish, or pass to Carlos, Gerets or even Tigana at times, so they can either cross to Kocsis or pass to Messi.
    Messi will get a more free role in the final attack roaming the front line, confusing pat's left side by sometimes going right flank to cross/pass to Kocsis or cutting in to play quick one twos with Maradona to get himself through, or go all the way from right channel taking on pat's defense and even at times slipping Gerets, to let him cross to Kocsis or play one-twos with Messi. Kocsis will be playing in front always moving east and west confusing his markers, looking to get behind the crosses, through balls and lob passes from Messi, Maradona&co, he will be key in forming a partnership with Maradona, while also at times letting Maradona go at defense at times, with him and Messi lurking just behind, in case rebound or loose ball in or near the box happens.



    Key points:
    • Our midfield is set in a way we will have an midfield covering of all tuppet's midfielders so Maradona will have a free way go.
    • Carlos can take care of the left side on his own with able support from Tigana, while Gerets will form a deadly partnership with Messi in the right.
    • Messi, Maradona and Kocsis will be too much for any defense in the tourney.
    • Messi will be given a free role from the right channel, getting into the box from the right or center, while also at times deceiving pat's defenders, by getting on the right and make lobbed passes/crosses to Kocsis or make lay off passes to an onrushing Maradona or Tigana or Keane.
    • Maradona will the creator-in-chief and organised of the attacks. With an extra man in the middle he will given more freedom than in previous rounds.
    • Beckenbauer anchoring my team is no less than having having Maradona in the hole orchestrating attacks.
    • Tigana gets to play his best role, the tireless box to box midfielder.
    • Kocsis will be played in more by Messi, Maradona and co with crosses, so he can fully utilize his aerial prowess and heading game.
  2. Nov 28, 2017
    #2

    Enigma_87 You know who

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  3. Nov 28, 2017
    #3

    idmanager Banned

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  4. Nov 28, 2017
    #4

    idmanager Banned

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    To be fair, your team is capable of handling two different teams at once @Lord SInister :D
  5. Nov 28, 2017
    #5

    Lord SInister Full Member

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    :lol:

    @idmanager I just kinda lazily copy-pasted, had been a hectic weekend for me, two treks(15km on Saturday and 12km on Sunday) and yesterday I was drunk as hell:lol:.
  6. Nov 28, 2017
    #6

    Raees Legal Guardian of the Football forums

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    Seconded. Has really put the cat amongst the pigeons. Will be a very close game.

    @Lord SInister .. interested to hear your thoughts on his tactical set up and how you intend to defeat it..
  7. Nov 28, 2017
    #7

    harms Way Staff

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    Very good set up and write up from @Tuppet. The only thing is, you drastically underrate Kocsis in my opinion and from the first glance he looks like a possible match-winner here, especially since Thuram will be quite busy containing Messi.

    I like how he dealt with Messi and Maradona and that counter-attacking trio :drool: Granted, I don't know nothing about Ocwirk apart from the few articles, but his clockwork passing should be a great asset to Tuppet's team.
  8. Nov 28, 2017
    #8

    idmanager Banned

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    I wouldn't call him being 'busy', especially with peak Maldini there.
    Sure, Messi will be in Thurram's zone and they will clash during the game, but busy might be inappropriate.
    Maldini would be busy with Thurram supporting when required. Almost any other LB and then it would be fair to call Thurram busy.
  9. Nov 28, 2017
    #9

    harms Way Staff

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    Right. Harsh on @Tuppet, but I still vote for LS. Tuppet did as well as he could've and Ronaldo-Cruyff-Boniek is a fantastic trio but Beckenbauer, Kocsis and Tigana-Keane (who somehow got forgotten given the amount of GOATs, but what a midfield it is!) make it impossible to vote against LS — and De Gea makes it easy to vote for him, as in a close encounter like this I know whom I want in my goal.
  10. Nov 28, 2017
    #10

    diarm Full Member

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    Fair play @Tuppet . I didn't think anyone would put forward a side and tactic to worry Lord S in this draft but that is a brilliant attempt!

    Looking forward to reading how he plans to counter your plans here. Facinating match.
  11. Nov 28, 2017
    #11

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    To be perfectly honest it's a lot closer than I expected. Tuppet has really done great countering the opponent strengths putting brilliant marker like Vogts on Maradona and Messi between Thuram/Maldini.

    On the other side I can see Ronaldo getting some joy against Nesta/Forster whilst Boniek would add to the midfield battle and also keep Kaiser busy so Cruyff would get some freedom between the lines.
  12. Nov 28, 2017
    #12

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

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    @Tuppet I would swap Boniek and Cruyff myself. Boniek will roughly do the same in fairness, but I'd get Cruyff to influence rhe midfield more.
  13. Nov 28, 2017
    #13

    Gio 6 times Redcafe Draft Winner

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    It's hard to envisage a more stifling set of opponents for Messi on the right than Maldini, Thuram and Davids. I remember Thiago Silva as one of the rare defenders of this generation who has matched up well to Messi and thought there might have been a role for him in the final here, but you cannot argue with Tuppet's mitigation tactics.

    Fine attacking unit that Tuppet has built as well and they can all expose the limitations of a back three set-up by pulling and isolating defenders out wide.

    Like the semi you can see Carlos having a good game here. Ocwirk, Zambrotta and Blanc isn't the most dynamic side of a park, and I can certainly see Carlos getting into good positions.
  14. Nov 28, 2017
    #14

    Lord SInister Full Member

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    Some important areas of Tuppets set up.

    • Man-marking Maradona with Vogts, but Maradona will be drifting wide to left flank deeper, dragging Vogts with him opening spaces for the midfield duos.
    • Kocsis has limited service as per Tuppet, but my team has two fantastic wingbacks who are also excellent crosser of the ball , while Messi can deliver those ridiculous diagonal passes to his head to just tug in the ball and Maradona drifting wide, and beating Vogts one-v-one to play a sweet left footed ball, while both Keane and Tigana are themselves good crosser of the ball. Kocsis will have plenty of service, without having to sacrifice Messi's game.

    Asides, those points.

    My midfield in almost all the draft games till now is being ignored. But let me introduce them, Keane and Tigana are both fantastic midfielders known to own the midfields on their own blessed with excellent balance of defense and offense.

    Ocwirk for all his excellence is not someone with "legs" in the midfield who would bear the hassle and tussle of the fast moving midfield of Tigana and Keane. Davids never got better of Keane, and unlike previous Ziege vs Figo, these encounters were direct contacts, and Keane always came on top. And matches are won in midfield.

    Roberto Carlos will have a free run given the tactical set up of tuppet. And he can be devastating when given space.






  15. Nov 28, 2017
    #15

    BeforeKeanetherewasRobson Full Member

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    Thirded.... clearly seen earlier LS games, opponents, tactics and put a lot of thought into how to stifle LS. Question is whether that dilutes his attack too much, though with players like Cruyff and Ronaldo (a player capable of doing it by himself) he's always got a chance?

    Will ponder, mull, consider..... ave a cup of tea.
  16. Nov 28, 2017
    #16

    idmanager Banned

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    Badly wanted to go with @Tuppet for that tactical masterclass but it would be more out of hopeful wishing of someone pulling a David against a Goliath.

    My only quirks about LS is he has not offered a defense against Boniek's free role against Carlos and Gerets. That is the easiest route to a goal IMO, but I still would think LS would outscore.

    Quickly regarding Keana/Tigana with Kaiser, although it looks tasty, I feel eventually it might lead to a case of too many cooks which might run into problems against counters against a team that likes to sit back, soak pressure and frustrate the feck out of the opposition.

    Kaiser especially has to cover 3 roles, the 3rd CB when the wing backs attack, the player in the opposition hole and of course the attacking aspect. Of course, with drafts, people give super powers to players like Matthaus/Kaiser. @Invictus did it with Matthaus in the last draft, although did a great job selling it.
  17. Nov 28, 2017
    #17

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    I wouldn't personally as it will clash Cruyff with Beckenbauer directly which would work in LS favor. I'd rather Boniek occupying that space thus freeing Cruyff when Gerets and Bobby overlap.
  18. Nov 28, 2017
    #18

    harms Way Staff

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    How so? Tigana and Keane are hardly ball-hogging midfielders; plus Tigana played in carre magique with Platini and Giresse
  19. Nov 28, 2017
    #19

    Lord SInister Full Member

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  20. Nov 28, 2017
    #20

    idmanager Banned

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    None of them are out and out destroyers and its not impossible to assume them ending up high up the pitch against a deep defending team.
    I would prefer one of them to be an out and out destroyer to make the defense as stellar as the attack. The below quirk wouldn't be present if there was one. If it was Pele there instead of Boniek, could have been so much more closer without the detroyer :)

  21. Nov 28, 2017
    #21

    Tuppet Banned

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    @Lord SInister best of luck. Not that you really need it or anything. I would hold my hands up and say your team is insane and that attack ugh, not much I can do but try and contain it.

    However I would never consider my team with likes of Cruyff-Ronaldo-Maldini-Vogts-Thuram a David against Goliath at all @idmanager . These are the players who have bested LS squad members many times. I have mentioned Ronaldo vs Nesta and Cruyff vs Beckenbauer but also Vogts who was a driving force for the Gladbach team which actually won Bundesliga more time than Beckenbauer during his time at Bayern Munich playing some scintillating football. And that Bayern team had the likes of Muller, Breitner and Maier in it. Thuram and Blanc are serial winners especially at International stage where they formed the heart of one of the truely great defensive unit.

    And while Carlos is rightly getting a lot of love, Zambrotta at his favored right foot was no slouch. A world cup winner and part of team of the tournament he was quite an important cog in both Italian defense and attack at that time. Unfortunately it doesn't seem Carlos-Zambrotta play against each other a whole lot. The only high profile match I see is Champions league 2003 Semi where Juve knocked Real out but I think Zambrotta was playing left back in that. I personally think Zambo is totally capable of taking care of Roberto.

    In any case I get why anyone would vote for LS, his team is outstanding, but in a direct comparison between players, there is not a whole lot between Maradona-Cruyff or Messi-Ronaldo or even Beckenbauer - Vogts from purely defensive sense. I would argue my attack gels better but thats subjective, the margins are razor thin here.
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
  22. Nov 28, 2017
    #22

    idmanager Banned

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    True, said that in a general consensus post drafting. Its a great team you have built as well and I have loved your tactics enough already :)
  23. Nov 28, 2017
    #23

    Tuppet Banned

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    @harms My intention is not to belittle Kocsis but I honestly believe (and have expressed this thought outside my game as a neutral) that he should really be playing with proper wingers. Its well documented that he wanted the crosses to come in through air to him as much as possible and thats basically his bread and butter. Its not about whether Messi and Maradona and Carlos can supply the crosses or not, its more about the playing style. Are they going to do it enough time to keep Kocsis happy ? How would Messi react, as he is grown in Barca tradition of playing ball on the ground. Their personal talents aside its just not a good fit in my opinion, they are made to be played in two different kind of teams. It seem similar to the Ibra - Messi partnership at Barcelona-

    "It started well but then Messi started to talk," Ibrahimovic claimed in his book, 'I Am Zlatan' in 2011. "He wanted to play in the middle, not on the wing, so the system changed from 4-3-3 to 4-5-1. I was sacrificed and no longer had the freedom on the pitch I need to succeed."
  24. Nov 28, 2017
    #24

    Tuppet Banned

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    That's fine really, that is what I want from Vogts and I would rather have Maradona deeper in your half than mine. Yeah Keane and Tigana are great but mine's are not bad and given a choice between who I want closer to my goal its a no brainer.
    I've mentioned it a few times before but there is no way either of your wingback is emulating the service that Czibor and Budai provided him at his peak.

    Ocwirk got plenty of legs. He has played in positions that would be considered CB, WB and DMs. He was also considered one of the most complete players ever.

    I have explicitly mentioned in my tactic that Zambrotta is directly against Carlos, how is he given a free run ?
  25. Nov 28, 2017
    #25

    Lord SInister Full Member

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    Ibra vs Kocsis is the most weird comparison tbh. Ibra was a totally different player compared to Kocsis both in style and attitude. Ibra always wanted the team to build around him, while Kocsis played a system where he had to share goal scoring with great forwards like Puskas, Péter Palotás and Hidegkuti, and he never slacked because he had to share the space with players of this stature.
    Kocsis has not only played with, but played successfully with players who want to dominate the game.

    We are not always playing the game in the air, that Messi is going to have issue with.
  26. Nov 28, 2017
    #26

    Tuppet Banned

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    Yeah they are not the same but its documented from the testimony of his team mates that Kocsis got frustrated and unhappy when the ball is not being constantly played in air. Both Czibor and Budai have mentioned it and thats when his team was winning. I am not sure he is the selfless forward you want who would sacrifice his own game to provide a reference point to for Messi and Maradona. From Czibor's account of the Olympic game he almost sound very Ibra-esque. I can even hear it in his voice - "Zlatan wants you to play the ball in air for Zlatan".
  27. Nov 28, 2017
    #27

    Lord SInister Full Member

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    That is an account of a Czibor and his relationship with Kocsis, but you are forgetting that Kocsis played in a team known for played for teams who played a fast passing game kinda of total football, he was not your typical "wait in the box for cross" type of a player. Czibor and Budai themselves were not your typical wingers more like wide-forwards, Hungary nor Hondev played the cross in Kocsis head for goal type of game.

    Kocsis used to function as the link-man in those great Golden team of 1950s with him being the man who ticked that team called Magical Magyars like a clockwork.
    In those great forward-line with Budai cutting in from right wing, Hidegkuti dropping deep or being the furthest attacker up the pitch, Puskas roaming across and Czibor would either be on the left/right wing or sticking up front on the counter, it was Kocsis who acted as foil to link-up these dynamic players who could play anywhere across the front line.

    So Kocsis had played alongside players who used to play exactly like Messi is playing in my team, and with much greater success than one can imagine.

    Kocsis is not Vieri or a Bierhoff or a Horst Hrubesch, who needed balls always played to their head. Kocsis was par excellence in the air but also also a well rounded player who could finish, link-up with teammates and had excellent movement off the ball.


    Find below a video which will try to illustrate how good was Kocsis.
  28. Nov 28, 2017
    #28

    harms Way Staff

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    Yeah, wasn't accusing you in bias but rather saying that I know your view on him and I don't fully agree with it. Nor Maradona, nor Messi are egoistic goalscorers, despite Messi's ridiculous goalscoring record, and having someone like Kocsis on the end of Messi's lobbed passes on the left (like the one that Alba scored just now against Valencia); or having Kocsis on the end of Maradona's crosses - from the left, from the right (rabona :drool:), and from overhead kicks; or having him at the end of Carlos' and Gerets' crosses... I can hardly find a better fit for all those players. Especially since Kocsis, obsessive goalscorer he was, worked well with the likes of Puskas and Hidegkuti, finishing not only with his head, but also with his feet (and his record isn't 400 headed goals of 493+; 493 goals is the official number from RSSSF, 400 career headers is something like Romario's or Pele's 1000 goals — a number that counts every possible goal in his career, official, unofficial etc., which also puts him somewhere around 1000 iirc. If he would've scored 4/5 of his goals with his head, I would've understood your argument, but he was much more than that, a very cultured center forward)
  29. Nov 28, 2017
    #29

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    if @Tuppet wins this i want a winners medal as well.
  30. Nov 28, 2017
    #30

    Moby Dick who hates the homeless

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    I suggested the Thuram vs Messi tactic in the last game. :wenger:
  31. Nov 28, 2017
    #31

    mazhar13 Full Member

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    I don't know how this will end. Both teams look very well-formed and pretty much even.

    Kocsis-Maradona-Messi is a very fluid front 3 that will definitely cause some problems for even a defence as strong as Tuppet's. The same goes for Boniek-Cruyff-Ronaldo against LS' defence.

    Tuppet having 3 players primarily focus on Messi, however, seems like a suicidal move. You can't have 3 players all worry about one player's impact. You need to have them be mindful of the open zones and other threats around them. Messi's that kind of a player who can magnetise opponents towards him, and all of Maldini, Thuram, and Davids will also need to be mindful of Keane and Gerets. Those two players cannot be ignored just to focus on Messi.

    On the other hand, Boniek's free role is going to cause lots of problems to LS' midfield and defence. Boniek is comfortable enough to play in all areas of the pitch, and that'll give Keane and Tigana a big headache. I have no idea how LS' side will handle that.

    It's a tough call for me. I don't know which team can win this.
  32. Nov 28, 2017
    #32

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    Nesta was such a pointless pick, think Stam is a better choice for Lords team even though Nesta is a much better player overall.
  33. Nov 28, 2017
    #33

    Moby Dick who hates the homeless

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    [​IMG]
  34. Nov 28, 2017
    #34

    Lord SInister Full Member

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    yes the best defender of this century is a pointless pick.
    Nesta is not Pique.
  35. Nov 28, 2017
    #35

    harms Way Staff

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    Why? It's not like Stam is able to handle Ronaldo too.


    And Nesta is a better player.
  36. Nov 28, 2017
    #36

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    Yes, Nesta is top 3 CB of all time in a back 4, not as a right sided one in a back 3 where someone else is leading that defence.....its pointless because you already had a damn good player there who was actually a great fit compared to Nesta.
  37. Nov 28, 2017
    #37

    harms Way Staff

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    It's so hard to watch those young Ronaldo videos, knowing what we could've had but didn't :(
  38. Nov 28, 2017
    #38

    harms Way Staff

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    Nesta played as a right back at times and I don't know why wouldn't he be great here — especially since Beckenbauer will spend most of the time in midfield anyway
  39. Nov 28, 2017
    #39

    Moby Dick who hates the homeless

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    I disagree. Your post makes sense in an isolated scenario but here it will be a shame to have Cruyff slug it out vs Beckenbauer. Boniek's electric movement is more effective in not only giving Beckenbauer a taste of true athleticism but also better suited to track his runs and be a pain in the ass for him.
  40. Nov 28, 2017
    #40

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    Dont know, for me Nesta is a central defender in a back 3 where he leads that defence and even then he isnt at his peak. Even if you argue Nesta is a better RCB in a back three then Stam which i dont think he is, difference is marginal and that makes that pick pointless as he could have used that upgrade elsewhere.
    If Kaiser spends most of his time in midfield, Cruyff and Ronaldo will have a field day on counter against 2 CBs(no matter how good they are) that are supported with 2 wingbacks.