Dominoes draft: R1 - idmanager vs Lord Sinister

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Tuppet, Nov 8, 2017.

?

Who would win in the following draft game with all players at their peak?

Poll closed Nov 9, 2017.
  1. idmanager

    48.6%
  2. Lord Sinister

    51.4%
  1. Nov 8, 2017
    #1

    Tuppet Full Member

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    idmanager
    [​IMG]

    VS

    Lord SInister
    [​IMG]

    TACTICS
    idmanager:

    Formation: 4-4-2, defend deep and hit hard on the counter

    Defense:

    Dietz, the Euro 1980 winning captain of Germany, is a great option here to face Messi. He played as a full back in the first phase of his career and as CB in the latter phase. He would play a very narrow LB staying very close to Aldair, almost like a tucked in LCB. Him being naturally right footed will be hugely helpful while facing Messi cutting inside.

    Aldair, won the world cup with Brazil and reached a final in another, while being at the centre of defence in both. Apart from being solid in defense, his job would also be to initiate quick counters with his brilliant passing range

    Costacurta, part of the greatest defense ever. Solid as a rock. Doesn't need any introduction.

    Neville, will play the role he played in so many 4-4-2 setups at United along with Beckham. Both complement each other perfectly in both attack and defense. Neville's crosses from deep will be an asset.

    Midfield:

    If I had to choose a perfect central midfield for a 4-4-2 to work in an all time draft, I wouldn't have to look far beyond this pair.

    Effenberg: Keep it tight defensively on his side, suffocate the opposition with his high energy, help out against Messi. And most importantly, use his passing range and long passes to initiate quick decisive counters

    Matthaus: If there was ever someone to mark out Maradona in this draft, it is this guy. Has done it in the past and will do it again. Another high energy player who would be perfect in a counter attacking system with his defensive work and quick direct offensive counters.

    Beckham: For a 4-4-2 to work against absolute elite players, you need someone like Beckham who would work their socks off for the team. Nothing needs to be said about his crossing and goal creating capabilities. What needs to be highlighted is his ability to drift in centrally and help out Matthaus and Effenberg in the midfield which is what he will be instructed to do here to add numbers to the midfield battle.


    Attack:

    Gento: The absolute best left winger in the draft and probably the fastest player as well. Perfect for a quick counter attacking team with his blistering pace and ability to create goals. His goal scoring rate was amazing as well.

    Again, if you had to design the perfect front two for 4-4-2 in a all time draft, you wouldn't need to look far from these two. The inter play between the two should cause havoc.

    Henry: Fast, can create, can score. Loads. Don't need many opportunities to score.

    Ronaldo: Fast, can create, can score. Loads. Don't need many opportunities to score.


    Opposition weaknesses:

    1. His team is filled with shiny players who don't complement the formation and each other at all. Big names, but bigger mismatches in both attack and defense.

    2. Messi never played in a 4 man attack setup as a RW, right from his starting season at Barca. Maradona would not have too much space as well and his best came in 3 man setups too. Two players who need lots of space, in the same areas of the field, bumping into each other simply won't work.

    3. Beckenbauer in a 4 man defense with 2 attacking fullbacks, one of whom is terrible defensively and is going to be roasted in an all time context is a recipe for disaster, especially against a fast counter attacking setup which is probably one of the best, most fluid and most importantly, perfect setup wise in the whole of draft.

    4. His defense and attack lacks what mine does. Cohesiveness. They simply don't work with the setup or each other. I don't have as many shiny names, neither does anyone else in the draft, but my players work perfectly with each other and against the opponents strengths.

    [​IMG]

    Lord SInister:

    I am playing a 4-2-3-1 formation.

    Player profiles:

    David de Gea: DDG is as complete as a modern goalkeeper can be. Blessed with world class command, distribution, shot-stopping and reliability.
    Carrying a rather underwhelming Manchester United for years, he has cemented his status as one of the finest goalkeeper of this century, second to none when it comes to performances.

    Eric Geret: What do you look for in your right back, boundless stamina, good defensive ability, good crossing and an able support to the attack, along with superb individual talent.
    Eric Gerets is a man who had all these in him, along with a leadership quality.

    Japp Stam: The greatest defender to put on the United shirt, Stam was a monster of a defender, blessed with everything a defender should have. Strong as anybody and tough as anybody.


    Franz Beckenbauer: Well the greatest sweeper-defender of all time. A legit top 10 player of all time, leader, pioneer player. Nothing more to say.

    Christian Ziege: One of the most underrated lateral defenders, great teams are not just build on golden boys, but also tireless workhorses. Zeige is one such player, alongside Gerets.
    Ziege was a player who had excellent balance in both attack and defense with excellent pace, able to play almost all the roles of a left back whether a wingback, traditional defensive left back or an inverted left back given his comfort with the ball in the midfield(he played as a CDM/MF during his time in BM).

    Jean Tigana: Well one of the very few midfielder who was as good defensively as he was offensively. Few people could combine combined stamina and acceleration, along with perfect technique, vision and passing as Tigana had. People remember him as the part of the second version of the "carré magique" where he had an defensive Fernandez to support him defensively, what many forget is in the original "carré magique", he had to do all the defensive duties, given the original magica had 3 #10s(Genghini-Platini-Giresse). Such immense was he.

    Roy Keane: Call it luck or anything, like Tigana, Keane is also one of the very few midfielder who was as good defensively as he was offensively. Keane was a pure box to box who could move up and down.
    Keane was a reliable and precise passer, a strong tackler and a player who could not be the support system and the man of the team.

    Franck Ribéry: He is an tactical choice, as there are not many players who are as good as him on ball while being a support player who does the job offensively and defensively(tracking back and stuffs) with same intensity. He been the best left winger for long period of time for years, racking up double figure assists and scoring goals for free.

    Diego Maradona: Well the name is enough.

    Lionel Messi: look at Maradona's description.

    Sandor Kocsis: Greatest header of all time, while being excellent with both feet, technically outstanding, well one of the greatest striker and one of the most underrated player, someone who should be talked along with Romario, Muller, Van basten and Ronaldo as the elite strikers of all time.


    4-2-3-1:
    The reason for choosing this formation was that the back four gives the adequate width for my with or without the ball, the two holding midfielders cover the space in the front of the centre backs and creative midfielders/wingers/strikers have enough cover behind their back to play their own game with freedom.

    The Back-four and Goalie:
    DDG
    will play the ball out from the back. and the four defender will position themselves to provide him with passing and throwing options.

    Beckenbauer and Japp Stam, play a traditional sweeper-stopper central defense partnership.
    With Beckenbauer at times(mostly during counters) playing his accurate long balls down the wings for Messi and Ribery to make their devastating runs behind the defends to either go at goal, or make plays for Kocsis to finish.

    Eric and Christian have enough space to help the attacks on the flanks by overlapping the Messi and Ribery at times. This does create situations where we will double up the wings and will be used to get behind the idmanger's defence. They will safely run high on the pitch they will be protected by Tigana and Keane.



    The Central defensive Midfield/Pivot:

    In this formation, I will be using Tigana as defensive one, who will be more responsible for covering and playing simple passes. Keane is the more box to box one in my formation. But this does not mean, Tigana will always sit back, when in possession, Tigana will interchange with Keane for the box to box role. But he will primarily be the more defensive, simple play.


    Central Play-maker and other attackers:

    Messi, Maradona and Ribery have enough space and cover to show their individual skills as they have a the two MFs, two CB and one of the FBs staying deep to help them. one of the Gerets or can overlap the wide midfielders so they have to help them open up space. All three are world class at beating their man, while Messi and Maradona alone can beat 3-4 and finish, but I would advise them to move the ball more, rather than trying to do all by themselves, and both have during career have been good students of the game, always respecting the tactics over their individual indulgence. Same with Ribery.

    Messi and Ribery will move towards the inside, and reason for having them play left and right. as in real life is because they both are opposite footed players playing in opposite wings(right footed Ribery|although he two-footed as one can be|. When they are on the ball when running towards the middle, either of the Gerets/Ziege(depending on who is on the ball Messi/Ribery) can make an overlap so they force the ID's f full back to decide who to go with. And all of my flankers have played in such roles, where they developed good wing partnership.
    Another important thing will be Messi and his diagonal passes to the left wing to help Ziege/Ribery get behind and shoot, or Ribery/Ziege get behind and cross to Kocsis to head.

    Maradona, our key playmaker, will always be ready to get between the id's lines and ask for the ball.
    Once he is on the ball he will turn towards goal and either make a creative pass for Messi/Ribery/Kocsis or finish individually by striking on goal.
    Kocsis will employ in a two-way role to confuse id's defense, with enough creative force to support him and enough space to move towards the wings when needed. Kocsis at one time will be in the middle dragging defenders with his east-west runs and confusing them while also at times moving towards the wings/get deeper to give passing options/keep possession. Does not mean he will drift from his main task, as he will always be on time, arriving accurately in the middle from wings to finish attacks, being played one-twos by Messi/Maradona/Ribery.


    Pressing game/Central Game:


    We will try to force the id's team towards the flanks and Kocsis will have an important role, as he will hassle ID's defenders to play the ball to the full backs and when the ball is given to his full backs, my team will suffocate the space around him. with us and cut every single possibilities for him, so he would rather play the ball or loose it.
    And if the ball is played through the middle, Maradona and co will harass the midfield, as he is quite known in his playing time of doing it.
    also at times when opposition might play the ball down the middle, we will drop back and organize the field. Since we are blessed to have 2 defensively adequate midfielders Tigana and Keane will be given different roles in defense according to the ball's actual position and id's team movement and possession status.
    Both will have their zones to press and shutout the opposition from getting one-v-one or two-v-two against our defenders.
    Kocsis will also in this scenarios should drop back behind the ball's line when Messi/Ribery will put pressure on their man with the ball. Our team's optimal length will always be between 20-30 meters.
    But we will always be ready if id manager's team is trying to play a long ball in behind our defense, and since both Beckenbauer and Stam have adequate speed, there will be no trouble for that.


    Counters:

    When we will win the ball in the break, one of either Keane or Tigana(both have good long passing skills) and if Becks(he also had excellent long passing skills) wins it, will try to attack empty spaces created on the flanks. And I am blessed with two very fast/tricky flankers in Messi and Ribery. who can take the ball fast either go at the goal, play the ball quickly to Kocsis or Maradona.
    Kocsis will play an important role here,he has to drag and occupy the id's CBs to open up space on the flanks. And he has the speed and tactical guile to play the role effectively
  2. Nov 8, 2017
    #2

    Tuppet Full Member

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    Can we get a poll please:

    Who would win in the following draft game with all players at their peak -
    idmanager
    Lord SInister

    Votes not visible until you vote. @Invictus @Damien @Rado_N
  3. Nov 8, 2017
    #3

    Tuppet Full Member

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  4. Nov 8, 2017
    #4

    Raees Sporty Guy

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    is this a final or a R1 game..
  5. Nov 8, 2017
    #5

    Arbitrium Full Member

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    It seems completely blasphemous to say but with Messi and Maradona it should always be one or the other. They can’t both always have the ball.
  6. Nov 8, 2017
    #6

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

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    Sorry @idmanager, I really tried but can't see that defence stopping that juggernaut.
  7. Nov 8, 2017
    #7

    Edgar Allan Pillow Was AFC, likes them hypoallergenic - no feathers

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    Monster team by Lord SInister, but not really one which would get the best out of Messi or Maradona. Messi is wasted out wide in a 4-3-2-1 and a pacey dribbler like Ribery is a bad fit with Maradona. Despite the formation, I don't expect Sinister's team to actually have superiority out wide, as both Messi and Ribery are apt to cut in and overlap into Maradona's space.

    idmmanger's 442 will not grant him possession or midfield dominance, but that has factored that in his strategy. The proven Neville/Beckham partnership I also Gento expect to come out on battles with Gerets ensures he gets superiority in both flanks and plays well to his counter attacking strategy.

    Considering team dynamics, I like idmanagers setup better, but then the star power and individual brilliance in Sinister's team is hard to ignore.

    Tough.
  8. Nov 8, 2017
    #8

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

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    Idmanager has a set-up that's well designed for coming up against that monster of a team. It's a brilliant counter-attacking team with the sheer pace of Gento, Henry and Ronaldo getting plenty of grass to hit. And then you have Beckham as someone who can release them from deeper areas, but also provide important work rate to solidify the midfield. Matthaus can play a disciplined role as well.

    Ultimately though I'd want a bit more quality in that back four to make the game-plan a realistic chance of winning. I'm not really sold on Aldair and Neville against such a rarefied attack. Never mind Messi and Maradona, I can see Kocsis murdering Aldair in the air (Hyppia might have been a better shout IMO and was a top-class penalty-box defender to boot).
  9. Nov 8, 2017
    #9

    harms Full Member

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    Agree on Gerets/Ziege not being an ideal fit for a Beckenbauer-led defence and Ribery not being an ideal partner for Messi-Maradona-Kocsis attack, but in the end it all comes to the fact that that back 4 is just not good enough to stop Lord's guys from scoring.

    On the other hand, Stam will be doing what he did for United, where he was at times a one-man defence, and Beckenbauer's anticipation and reading of the game will stop most (or, at least, more) of idmanager's attacks.

    That front 6 of idmanager's though :drool: Almost impossible to upgrade if we're talking about 4-4-2. Ridiculously unlucky to come up against sinister's team so early.

    And what a battle in the middle — Effenberg and Matthäus vs Keane, Tigana and Maradona :drool:
  10. Nov 8, 2017
    #10

    Indnyc Full Member

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    It’s a lot closer than I originally thought with how the drawing played out for @Lord SInister

    His attack is brilliant on star quality but I don’t see them working together as well. I can’t see Messi and Maradona as a great fit because they both want the ball all the time and play best when they are the main player in the team.

    I like Effenburg and Matthaus as a better pairing than Keane and Tigana.

    I also think Beckenbauer works better with a 5 man defense when someone can cover for him when he goes on forward runs. Zeige was pretty attacking and i can see him being targeted by Henry drifting wide.

    Only concerns for @idmanager is as good as Costacurta and the rest of the defense is I don’t think they will be able to stop the attack.

    It’s a question of how well the defense and midfield do against the attack. I’ll wait to hear more arguments before voting
  11. Nov 8, 2017
    #11

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    @idmanager can you post some information about your keeper?
  12. Nov 8, 2017
    #12

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    please read before you vote:lol:
  13. Nov 8, 2017
    #13

    idmanager Full Member

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    I am not going to sell my defense as the greatest obviously, but for me, the argument starts and ends with fitting of the team in attack and defense.

    Most of it I have already mentioned in the write up, but a few things to highlight again,

    1. Dietz, the right footed played as the CB in Euro 1980 winning team, while also captaining it. He should provide support to Aldair considering Messi is almost always going to cut in, I feel that worked out pretty well for me.
    2. Hyypia vs Aldair was a tough choice, but Aldair offers the quick counters with his passing range which is absolutely crucial for me.
    3. Costacurta would be the one handling Kocsis most of the time and not Aldair. Its a right heavy attack with Messi and Maradona. Kocsis more often than not will be in Costacurta's territory. That is an even battle IMO.
    4. Neville vs Ribery pretty much cancels itself out.

    His defensive setup only needs 1 counter to be teared open. As good as Stam was, you can't expect a one man defensive effort from him as someone mentioned against a fast and fluid attack as mine.
    How Beckenbauer in a 4 man defence with 2 attacking wingbacks wont leak goals time and again is beyond me.
    He might need 6-7 moves to create a goal. I wouldn't need more than 1 or 2 IMO.

    Messi+Maradona in a 4 man attack works only in drafts, not in real life. Its not about not getting the best out of them. Its about simply not working.
    If I was Lord Sinister, I would have benched Ribery and played a CM, with Maradona as false 9, Messi as a lone wide forward and Koscis slightly left with another CM there. That would have killed the game for me. Might as well have not showed up with those tactics.
  14. Nov 8, 2017
    #14

    harms Full Member

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    He was considered best in the world... when Sarosi scored 7 past him
  15. Nov 8, 2017
    #15

    idmanager Full Member

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    Quite honestly, all my knowledge is based on the internet. I had not heard of him before this draft.
    He was the best keeper in the world in the 30's, is regarding as the top 10 of all time by some while being in 1934 WC all stars team.
    I can google and post something about his play but without any evidence. My knowledge of him is as good as yours.
  16. Nov 8, 2017
    #16

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    Messi can play with other superstars like he did with Neymar and Suarez but in those situations he was still the main man and operated in central areas, not sure LS is getting the best out of him by shunting him out wide. The only issue i have with id is his defence, are they good enough to keep them relatively quiet?
  17. Nov 8, 2017
    #17

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    Cheers mate that's understandable, looking at his CV he looks more than competent so don't really have an issue with him, just wanted some basic bio information.
  18. Nov 8, 2017
    #18

    idmanager Full Member

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    After spending 2+ weeks picking players and writing those tactics while being the most optimistic person, that is the least I could ask for, no matter how cringe worthy :)
  19. Nov 8, 2017
    #19

    idmanager Full Member

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    For me more than playing with superstars, the bigger problem is Messi and Maradona in 4 man attacks. Messi has never played in one, while I don't remember Maradona in any such particularly great attack as well.
  20. Nov 8, 2017
    #20

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    cringy or not, i like it :D
  21. Nov 8, 2017
    #21

    Lord SInister Full Member

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    You are forgetting that Maradona and Messi are not just shiny players like Zarates and Denilsons, they are GOATs of their eras, players who have not only succeeded but also owned various roles and positions, and they both are having different roles here.
    And Messi doesn't always want to have the ball, he is okay with passing the ball from deep to the strikers and here in this case to (Maradona at no.10 role). on top of that someone who is really selfish always wanting the ball. Neither was Maradona a ultimate ball hogger, his games have shown of him being an excellent passer, who while always goal hungry, was also someone who enjoyed creating chances after chances, while rarely mis-passing.

    And my defense has a effective modern day dynamic of ball playing sweeper-center back with a no-nonsense fast moving stopper, with a competent right back who was known for his man-marking and also being good with goin forward, with an attacking left back/wingback with great recovery speed
    and tackling ability.

    Messi performed outstanding in the right wing role during the 2014/15 treble winning season, while sharing the ball with both Neymar and Suarez with no issue. So I dont see how Messi and Maradona cannot play together, Messi is not a ball hogging primadonna. He is more of a Pele/Zico than Best/Garrincha in this regard. GOATs who are happy to give the ball time to others.

    As already said earlier, a sweeper-stopper shielded by two monster midfielders, and two solid full backs, is a solid and fast recovering cover.
    Going by descriptions it seems like Beckenbauer is some hipster ball playing center back who always needs to be protected by four bodyguards.
    He is not going to play as a full on box to box, he is going to play more as an modern day ball playing center back who will use his positional sense and reading of the game to keep away the attack, also as already said in the OP, my full backs do not attack at the same time.
    They both are not going to attack at the same time. Plus one of the Keane/Tigana(depending on the zone) will always be there to cover the field.

    It is not about shiny names, but quality, my team is not filled with just shiny pieces. I have a solid back-six to complement a phenomenal front-4.
  22. Nov 8, 2017
    #22

    Ecstatic Full Member

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    Sad to see idmanager against lordsinester for the 1st round while both teams were clearly part of the top 4
  23. Nov 8, 2017
    #23

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    Agree with those points, this situation is similar to Tuppet's team that beat mine in the 4 way draft final , was full of world class attackers who were used to playing as the main men demanding the ball, it simply wouldn't work in real life but obviously looks great on paper.
  24. Nov 8, 2017
    #24

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

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    This game probably suits him if you're parking the bus - plenty of clustered goalmouth and penalty box action, as opposed to high-line sweeping and building from the back.
  25. Nov 8, 2017
    #25

    Ecstatic Full Member

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    Will make some short comments later but both attacks are brilliant
  26. Nov 8, 2017
    #26

    Lord SInister Full Member

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    Messi is not going to get shut out wide, 4-2-3-1 wingers are not similar to traditional wingers, they tend to cut-in and stretch play equally.
    And Messi during 2014/15 operated in the right more than he did centrally. And that season Barcelona won treble.
  27. Nov 8, 2017
    #27

    Arbitrium Full Member

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    Ribéry would be top 3 most overrated in my lifetime. Looks lost amongst the superstardom of both front lines.
  28. Nov 8, 2017
    #28

    Tuppet Full Member

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    For me at least Messi has reasonably established that he can work with world class dribblers like Neymar & Iniesta and even Suarez very well. He also doesn't need to see the ball all the time and he deferred a lot of possession to his tiki-taka team mates at his peak, acting almost as a poacher. Given one of his criticism has been that he doesn't have a dominant personality like Maradona, Cruyff or Di Stefano I see absolutely no reason why not only Messi-Maradona would work but thrive with each other.
  29. Nov 8, 2017
    #29

    Lord SInister Full Member

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    He is there to support, he may not be as big a name as others, but he has key part of team who outsmarted the greatest team of this decade, and he was a key tactical part of the team. And he is playing the same role in my team, a superb support player.
    Brazil 1970 had 5 number 10s, and they won the freaking world cup.
    Barcelona 2014/15 had Messi, Neymar and Suarez, all players who demand the ball with there previous clubs, and they yet won a treble and double.
    Yes teams with number of attacking players do win and work greatly, just needs a tweaking.
  30. Nov 8, 2017
    #30

    Lord SInister Full Member

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    Exactly. I mean there was a time during the first Messidependacia era(2012-14), when Messi was almost playing as final third player aka, someone who will just finish or assist, rather than involving in the build-up from the deep. His versatility and tactical adaptability is being underrated, as I said earlier, Messi is more of a Pele rather than a Garrincha able to adopt in all situation, rather than be a misfit.
  31. Nov 8, 2017
    #31

    Moby Dick

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    Those two things happened at different times though.

    With Pep, no one hogged the ball and they used constant one-touch passing where Messi played off the ball and usually played in the middle and picked the ball in the final third with minimal touches.

    On the right Messi played as a playmaker, and say a lot more of the ball under Enrique. In that team the midfield was used only for transition and give it to Messi who carried it forward or used his famous lob for Neymar.

    I don't think this team is suited for the Pep tiki taka. They don't have players who can play with the same synergy and the likes of Keane and Maradona are suited for fast paced tactics. Hence I see Messi taking up his RW role he had under Enrique where he was the main man in terms of creating chances, something that will clash with Maradona. I don't remember him playing off the ball as a wide forward and that would be a pretty big waste of his talents. Instead he used the ball deep and provided service to Neymar and Suarez. Of course he still scored loads but even for that he didn't have anyone else dominating the ball like Maradona would here and there's definitely a clash in terms of who dominates the ball. Messi due to his goalscoring can still be good without the ball but Maradona absolutely takes it most of the time which leaves Messi in a more limited role. Also a smaller point but during his MSN days he enjoyed having direct wide forward like Neymar who would darting runs into the box. Gento, despite having express pace, was more traditional and a creator rather than a scorer.

    Messi can combine with a lot of other GOATs but Maradona is probably one of them who would pose him a problem in terms dominating the ball. He's just as big an alpha as you can ask for, I can't ever imagine him letting anyone else dominate the ball.
  32. Nov 8, 2017
    #32

    Tuppet Full Member

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    @Moby I wasn't saying that he would do both things, I wouldn't have him doing playmaking or dwell on ball too much at all. What I wanted to say that he has done both things and could easily adapt. I would see Maradona- Messi partnership as say a Maradona-Ronaldo (phenomeno) partnership. Messi is totally free from playmaking and is just the extraordinary finisher that he was in 2012ish timeline. He to me is the greatest finisher the game has seen and with the greatest playmaker serving him I see no reason why it wouldn't work. You wouldn't get Messi's playmaking from the flank but that is fine when you have Maradona.
  33. Nov 8, 2017
    #33

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    Its not about having 4 no 10s. And that Brazil team had 4 10's but only one was the main man, the rest were obviously great but we're secondary to the main man, so I think this example actually supports my view.

    And Messi in that Barca team wasn't just restricted to the right side he drifted in a lot and also picked the ball up centrally at times, he wouldn't be able to do this in your team with Diego already operating in the middle. So that means he will spend most of his time on the wing, which isn't using him to his full potential.
  34. Nov 8, 2017
    #34

    Ecstatic Full Member

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    He has a fantastic reputation in Germany while in France he is severely underrated and hated for diverse reasons.

    Change his name - say Riberinho - and he would have been called the new Garrincha :D
  35. Nov 8, 2017
    #35

    harms Full Member

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    Gento plays in a different team.
  36. Nov 8, 2017
    #36

    Moby Dick

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    Aye, that's what I think is the best case scenario for them, but that isn't ideal for Messi. You aren't just freeing him from playmaking but also his constant dribbling which is a nightmare to defend. He'll mainly be used as an off the ball to get onto Maradona's passes and finish them, for which there are plenty of other elite goalscorers who aren't as great players overall as Messi but would do that job here.

    So basically this isn't the peak unstoppable Messi but a very limited version of his which brings this godlike pairing down a rather realistic opposition.
  37. Nov 8, 2017
    #37

    Edgar Allan Pillow Was AFC, likes them hypoallergenic - no feathers

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    Maradona-Kocsis is perfect partnership on it's own. You need two players who can feed the ball to them. And it's a waste of both Messi and Ribery to do that. Both are creative and apt to make those runs or provide that final pass themselves....which pretty much won't work with Diego. Someone like Michel or Lucha would be better suited to Maradona than the players here.
  38. Nov 8, 2017
    #38

    Moby Dick

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    :lol: A bit late in the day here.

    Same can be said about Ribery anyway, and he's even more of a playmaker than Gento was and not the direct wingforward Messi or even Maradona for that matter would need there. His playmaking is massively redundant here as opposed to his Bayern role where he had direct players around him to feed.

    Just don't see that attack being very complimentary despite the individual talent.
  39. Nov 8, 2017
    #39

    Skizzo Full Member

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    This was actually a harder decision than I thought when considering the star power on one team.

    The players probably thought so too as Messi was seen staying after to get some practice in
    [​IMG]

    Roy Keane would be up for it as always...doing his best Robin Hood impression here
    [​IMG]

    As he steals from the rich, GoldenBalls himself over there, and gives to the poor.......man's version of a proper left winger
    [​IMG]
  40. Nov 8, 2017
    #40

    Tuppet Full Member

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    I mean sure, there are better fit, but would the drop in quality worth taking that hit, I don't think so. What exactly can Michel do better than Messi in your opinion ?