Dominoes draft: R1 - Moby vs Oaencha

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Tuppet, Nov 10, 2017.

?

Who would win in the following draft game with all players at their peak?

Poll closed Nov 11, 2017.
  1. Moby

    82.8%
  2. Oaencha

    17.2%
  1. Nov 10, 2017
    #1

    Tuppet Full Member

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    Moby
    [​IMG]

    VS

    Oaencha
    [​IMG]

    TACTICS

    Team Moby
    We are playing a standard 5-3-2 formation based on an unbreakable defensive line, a grand mix of tactical and technical midfield, an absolute genius running the offense supported by a deadly forward line.

    In goal is the incomparable Sepp Maier, the legendary German goalkeeper and one of the best ever at that.

    Watertight defensive line led by the defensive general Gaetano Scirea bringing in tremendous presence at the back and organising the defense with his leadership skills and providing that touch of genius in defense, a man absolutely crucial for that defense to be at their best, not to mention his unrivalled ability to distribute the ball from defense or carry it forward. Flanking him are two absolutely uncompromising defenders comprising the Italian no nonsense defensive rock Giorgio Chiellini and one of the greatest Spanish defenders and therock behind the legendary Barca team Carles Puyol. Both the CBs are perfectly capable of defending both in the middle and covering for the wingbacks out wide naturally, make it a sound tactical setup.

    The all important wingbacks are two German world champions - the unmatched two way game of Manuel Amoros and the outstanding work animal Patrice Evra. The two wingbacks are perfect in the roles assigned to them, Amoros being a massive weapon both in defense and attack on the right while Evra who constantly provided width for us during our great run and at his peak was a colossus at the back due to his pace, stamina and concentration.

    The midfield comprises of the Romanian legend Gheorghe Popescu partnering the all round midfield general Luka Modric. In Popescu we have the perfect midfield-defense hybrid who would be class at dropping into defense and allowing Scirea to impact the game on the ball which Luka's work rate, stamina, close control technique and outstanding creative passing would make it a well rounded unit.

    Completing the midfield is none other than the unparalleled goalscoring creative genius Michel Platini. With the incredible platform behind him he will be at the heart of the game bring in all time great levels of creativity, passing both long and short and an elite goalscorer all wrapped in one package. To further his strengths, he is absolutely at home in playing in a back 5 formation while being the primary threat in attack and taking that responsibility at the highest stage.

    Completing the team is the deadly Italian duo of Alessandro Del Piero and Christian Vieri. Two forwards playing in a very 'Italian' setup something which they are most used to in as well as two forwards that make a highly complimentary pair with Del Piero being the free roaming forward while Vieri takes his role as the battering ram up front bringing in top quality finishing.

    Key Points:
    • A combative defensive line that will get stuck in and provide a massive guard for the goalie.
    • A powerful midfield unit making it a massive back 7 to break up. Popescu's ability to drop into defense vital to release Scirea.
    • Incredible ability on the ball at the back with all three of Scirea, Amoros and Evra capable of distributing it forward and carrying it when needed. Not to mention Puyol who excelled in the tiki taka system.
    • An all time great orchestrator at the heart of the game.
    • Two great forwards leading the attack complimenting each other perfectly with Del Piero playing off Vieri.
    • The familiarity of key players in Scirea, Platini, Del Piero and Vieri in their respective roles with regards to the formation that would further allow them to be in their element.

    Team Oaencha

    4-5-1 / 4-3-3

    Free flowing attacking football with fast wing play and creative passing through the middle.

    - Quick Summary -

    Defence
    Facchetti and Lahm are attacking wing backs. Maldini and Ruggeri are paired at centre back with Neuer utilising his sweeping skills.

    Midfield
    Netzer is the advanced playmaker, Pirlo is the deep playmaker and Alonso is being deployed as a defensive midfielder, similar to his Bayern Munich years. (More information in the write up)

    Attack
    Džajic and Rivaldo will cause havoc down the wings with Rivaldo being given a free role. Ibrahimović is the target man.

    - Full Summary -

    Manuel Neuer - Sweeper Keeper
    Giacinto Facchetti - Left Wing Back
    Paolo Maldini - Ball Playing Defender
    Oscar Ruggeri - Stopper
    Philipp Lahm - Right Wing Back
    Xabi Alonso - Defensive Midfielder
    Andrea Pirlo - Deep Playmaker
    Günter Netzer - Advanced Playmaker
    Dragan Džajić - Left Winger
    Rivaldo - Right Winger / Second Striker
    Zlatan Ibrahimović - Target Man

    Please feel free to ask questions but let’s get the big two out of the way...

    How will Xabi Alonso, Andrea Pirlo and Günter Netzer work together and why there is no out-and-out ball winner in midfield?

    All three are obviously world class playmakers but they each have their own specific roles in this team.

    Günter Netzer
    German maverick and advanced playmaker. Creative, technical and one of the greatest passers football has ever seen. With two defense-minded midfielders behind him he has the freedom to push forward and express himself.

    Andrea Pirlo
    Bearded wonder and traditional deep playmaker. His vision and control will be key for dictating the tempo of the game. He has light defensive duties but will focus on building play from the back.

    Xabi Alonso
    Gerrard’s secret lover and defensive midfielder. He had fantastic tactical awareness and was an accomplished tackler; especially during his years at Real Madrid and Bayern Munich. He is not performing the Makélélé role but he will be supporting the defence.

    With the personnel in defence I feel an out-and-out ball winner in midfield would be overkill. Maldini and Ruggeri are both strong, exceptional tacklers and Neuer’s sweeper abilities provide an extra man in defence.

    Manuel Neuer
    Tall, strong and the definition of a complete modern keeper. He will be utilising his sweeper abilities and keeping the defence organised.

    Giacinto Facchetti and Philipp Lahm
    Two world class wing backs, equally adept at defending and getting forward. They have free reign to attack the wings, interchanging passes with Džajić and Rivaldo. They are both expected to get back and defend but have Maldini, Ruggeri and Alonso providing cover when they are further up the pitch.

    Paolo Maldini and Oscar Ruggeri
    Two tough as nails centre backs whose styles will bring out the best in each other. Maldini is composed and confident on the ball, while Ruggeri is the fearless stopper, charging into tackles.

    Rivaldo and Dragan Džajić
    Flair and technical skill in abundance. Rivaldo has a free role, allowing him to drift inside behind Ibrahimovic and play as a second striker. Džajić is the archetypal winger, utilising his exceptional dribbling skills and whipping balls into the box for Ibrahimović.

    Zlatan Ibrahimović
    Programmed for ‘beast mode’ and the target man. He will thrive on the quality supply from his teammates. His height and strength has the potential to cause Moby’s defence serious problems. Popescu and Chiellini aside he towers above the others.
  2. Nov 10, 2017
    #2

    Tuppet Full Member

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  3. Nov 10, 2017
    #3

    Moby Dick

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    I like that you have tried to mitigate the damage Platini will do out there but it really is suicidal to go against someone of his calibre without a designated defensive midfielder. Pirlo especially will be cut through like a hot knife through butter and giving Platini that kind of path of least resistance is good enough to decide this game. It's a mismatch in all honesty.
  4. Nov 10, 2017
    #4

    idmanager Full Member

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    Gerrard+Alonso+Alonso or Gerrard+Mascherano+Mascherano would never be as effective as Gerrard+Alonso+Mascherano.

    Pirlo is terribly out of place there without an all time great DM against Platini.
    Alonso could have worked if there was a good DM, even if not an an all time great.

    The midfield contest is lost without even the game beginning in my perspective. Having Modric/Popescu/Scirea/Platini just adds salt to wounds.

    The crowning jewel of course is the defense, but Platini with 2 incredible forwards ahead makes it an even battle there at least.
    Not sure about Rivaldo's positioning there. He did score quite a few goals from the right side of the pitch(drifting, not dedicated position) as well from what I have seen but I wouldn't rate him there at his GOATy levels in an all time context.
  5. Nov 10, 2017
    #5

    Pat_Mustard Full Member

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    A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
    I hadn't quite realised how well @Moby 's team had shaped up. It looks brilliant, and even Chiellini, who divides opinion here, looks utterly at home in that defence. Oaencha's defence is fantastic as expected, and I want to believe in that midfield, but it's hard to shake the initial impression that Platini is a nightmare opponent for them. Even leaving that aside, so much of Netzer's best work seemed to come from driving forward with the ball from deep, and it seems like he'll be treading on the toes of the other two DLP greats in that regard.
  6. Nov 10, 2017
    #6

    Physiocrat Full Member

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    Yep, very true. Netzer was not a classic 10 more like a flamboyant 8. In Euro 72 he dropped incredibly deep
  7. Nov 10, 2017
    #7

    Moby Dick

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    Thanks mate. Yes, probably a couple of underrated names in there but I was lucky to find good tactical fits for this formation which I had decided upon the minute I got Platini. Getting Scirea was a real stroke of luck.
  8. Nov 10, 2017
    #8

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

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    I'd fancy oencha to get a couple of goals due to the exquisite on-the-ball ability on show. Probably one down either side with Dzajic/Facchetti - which is an unbeatable left flank, even moreso with Maldini stepping across - getting the better of Amoros/Puyol. Dzajic against the Spaniard in a wide area is a big mismatch IMO, based on the type of player Puyol has struggled against when covering out wide (off the top of my head someone of Aiden McGeady's ilk). So there's a good route to goal there, and with the Lahm/Rivaldo combo down the other side, I can see Evra and likely Popescu getting overstretched occasionally, enough at least for Rivaldo to get enough space to unfurl one from 25 yards.
    Pretty much this. Chiellini looks top banana here on the side of that back three. Scirea a souped-up Bonucci inside him. Platini is cryptonite here for Pirlo/Alonso, it's hard to see him getting tracked at all. As much as you can see Maldini/Ruggeri offering some solid resistance there, they will be occupied by the Italian duo. I've got a love for the balance of @Moby's front three, with Platini in his natural gig, Del Piero in the inside-left role and spearheaded by his former team-mate Vieri. Very bonnie.
  9. Nov 10, 2017
    #9

    Moby Dick

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    Cheers mate, yeah that's my favourite part of this team as well, all three absolutely at home in those positions complimenting each other positionally and tactically, while also being Serie A greats and completely used to these tactics and how to shine in that.

    Really enjoy seeing Del Piero, usually a bit undersold and gets shunted out wide in 4-2-3-1s but I think this is as close as it gets to his sweet spot. He has the ideal skillset for a support striker in this formation, the mobility to attack that inside left channel as well as drifting wide and combining with Evra ( I think those two will produce some great combinations in attack). To add to that he scored some majestic curling screamers time to time from that 20 yard point just outside the box, and here he can bury one in from that side. Great player, one of my favourites and loves United to boot. He looks primed to give Ruggeri a run around here, along with Platini supplying him or benefitting from his link up play and going on to score. Pretty potent, that.
  10. Nov 10, 2017
    #10

    harms Full Member

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    I'm not that impressed by Oaencha's midfield — it was bound to be a problem for him in the first round and I don't think that he solved it that well, Alonso, Pirlo, Netzer and Rivaldo just doesn't look like a balanced midfield to me. That defence though.

    Why is Maier so small? Surely you'd want your goalkeeper to be bigger and more imposing?
    And why is Platini green?
    [​IMG]

    Edging towards Moby at the moment.
  11. Nov 10, 2017
    #11

    Edgar Allan Pillow Was AFC, likes them hypoallergenic - no feathers

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    For all their moaning and whining bottom half have built solid teams.

    Oaencha midfield dynamics are off, but still spectacular teams from both.
  12. Nov 10, 2017
    #12

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

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    I really like @Moby's Modric-Popescu pair and Vieri-Del Piero, particularly how good a foil Popescu would be for both Modric and Scirea and it only just struck me how fecking great Del Piero would be at the Bettega job.

    I understand that Del Piero goes left and therefore Modric right, but it's a shame it doesn't crystalise the other way around as I prefer Modric left and -particularly in this game- it would be best to have Popescu on the right... as well as a Del Piero and not a Vieri giving Facchetti something to worry about when bombing forward.
  13. Nov 10, 2017
    #13

    Moby Dick

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    [​IMG]
  14. Nov 10, 2017
    #14

    Moby Dick

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    Thanks anto.

    If you meant having ADP on the right it will take both him and Luka out of their natural side and ADP will land under Maldini's nose. That's his zone.

    I prefer him from his natural side dragging the Argentine around who is an easier obstacle out of the 2 CBs.
  15. Nov 10, 2017
    #15

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    Yeah I'd echo harms feelings for this one. It doesn't seem optimal for oaencha in midfield and in 2002 it was Dinho that had play on the right to accommodate Rivaldo in his favorite leftish position.

    Moby has a fine team and to me would edge it.
  16. Nov 10, 2017
    #16

    Lord SInister Full Member

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    Moby's team dynamic is mint,

    exactly these fcukers cried whole drafting session, and look at the teams they have put.
  17. Nov 10, 2017
    #17

    Oaencha Full Member

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    Sorry guys been asleep.

    Thanks @Tuppet

    Might as well say congratulations now @Moby

    For what it’s worth I disagree with the view that my midfield/defence wouldn’t be able to cope with Moby’s attack.

    As mentioned in the write-up Alonso was pretty much a full-on defensive midfielder at Bayern Munich. He is playing the same role in this team and as the arrow suggests he will drop back when the team is under pressure. Look how deep he is playing in the videos below...





    Also mentioned in the write up are Neuer’s sweeping skills. It goes without saying that he is goalkeeper first, sweeper second but his presence will give Maldini and Facchetti more freedom to focus on tackling.
  18. Nov 10, 2017
    #18

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

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    No, I don't mean it should change. I understand why it is best to set up that way re: your own strengths, just pointing out it's rather unfortunate it can't be inverted against a side with such a strong left flank.

    The Popescu-Del Piero side is always going to be more defensively solid than the Modric-Vieri one. Not that it makes a difference, you'll slice through that midfield constantly. Yes, some Italian cheese, but not hard Italian cheese.

    Good point re: Maldini. Better have Modric attacking the space behind Facchetti than gift wrap AdP for Paolo and matching up Ruggeri to the sort of forward he is better suited for.
  19. Nov 10, 2017
    #19

    Oaencha Full Member

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    In hindsight maybe I should have changed Alonso’s position in the formation graphic. I assumed the arrow would give everyone the idea.

    I like your team Moby. Strong midfield and attack although my defence is comfortably stronger and I feel my attackers would cause you problems. I think the teams are much, much more even than the voting suggests.

    On a side note - when was it allowed that we could use photos of the players in the formation pictures? I thought we were stuck with the same graphic to make it fairer. More people will be enticed by the pretty picture.
  20. Nov 10, 2017
    #20

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    There's no standard set for formation graphics mate. You can use whatever formation builder you like or custom photos like Moby and me. I do it because IMO is prettier and like doing it.
  21. Nov 10, 2017
    #21

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

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    I'm sure he'd happily have 10 dwarfs scampering around if only to have Scirea emblazoned across the entire pitch.
  22. Nov 10, 2017
    #22

    idmanager Full Member

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    When the team is on the ball, Alonso for me is a very good defensive shield.
    But off the ball is where it matters more. In his peak, I can't remember a single team which didn't have a DM or energetic box to box defense minded player alongside him.

    Liverpool : Mascherano
    Madrid : Diarra/Khedira
    Spain : Busquets

    Here, not only he has most of the defensive responsibilities which I don't think he can fulfill against a top notch No.10, its an almost impossible ask against Platini.
    But I do love Alonso in the larger scheme of things. The problem here is Pirlo and not Alonso IMO.
    I would rather get Pirlo out than Alonso out. The Italian bastard needs a tailor made setup for it to work with him in an all time draft and that is not easy.
  23. Nov 10, 2017
    #23

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

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    Always been the case. I think I started it here 3-4 years ago (WC peak draft?) but with far more limited skill and a poor result.

    Mind you, cobbled it together because there was no chance in hell I was winning that game without some gimmick.

    Nothing wrong with making teamsheets more attractive. I have long insisted there are better tactics sites, use of caps, etc. I am immediately turned off by teamsheets with some dots thrown in there in a colour that gets lost and names in small caps (e.g. maradona). No matter how much you write up on tactics, there's no coming back.
  24. Nov 10, 2017
    #24

    Oaencha Full Member

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    How did I not know this? This is my fifth draft and I’ve only seen photos once or twice. Considering how many voters go via the formation picture alone, it’s a pretty big help.
  25. Nov 10, 2017
    #25

    Oaencha Full Member

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    As mentioned in the summary Alonso is the designated defensive midfielder -

    Midfield
    Netzer is the advanced playmaker, Pirlo is the deep playmaker and Alonso is being deployed as a defensive midfielder, similar to his Bayern Munich years. (More information in the write up)”


    Pirlo has very light defensive duties and won’t be focusing on Platini.
  26. Nov 10, 2017
    #26

    Oaencha Full Member

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    17 votes to 5. Wow... That’s pretty harsh.

    Can I get some opinions on how Moby’s defence will handle my attack please? Especially regarding Ibrahimovic’s advantage in the air and the threat from Džajic and Rivaldo from the wings.
  27. Nov 10, 2017
    #27

    Raees Sporty Guy

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    It is, but if you've got it .. flaunt it I say. I'm useless at photoshopping but must say it gets me horny seeing Moby, Enigma, EAP and Onenil painting pretty pictures.
  28. Nov 10, 2017
    #28

    BeforeKeanetherewasRobson Full Member

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    Behind the right goal post as "Whiteside shoots!"
    Maybe having Netzer back a bit on the graphic and Alonso also back a bit/behind the other two, would sit better?

    Both good teams.... get the Platini comments (one of my all-time favouurites) as he has to be shackled in games and can see what you were after with Alonso (the Bayern version).
  29. Nov 10, 2017
    #29

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    Takes some time to set up I guess. Even with ready template the search and resizing of the pictures/arrows would take about an hour for me.

    With sharemytactics it's pretty easy and you can get your point across fast, albeit with a simpler look.
  30. Nov 10, 2017
    #30

    Oaencha Full Member

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    Absolutely. Fortunately I’m good with Photoshop and I’m going to go postal with it in my next draft.
  31. Nov 10, 2017
    #31

    BeforeKeanetherewasRobson Full Member

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    Behind the right goal post as "Whiteside shoots!"
    Nice team @Moby .... Everyone looks in their "right" position, should work collectively and (as above), I'm a Platini-groupie and he'll always turn my head. Good defence too including the wingbacks but I must admit, I didn't know they were German.

    "The all important wingbacks are two German world champions - the unmatched two way game of Manuel Amoros and theoutstanding work animal Patrice Evra."
  32. Nov 10, 2017
    #32

    Oaencha Full Member

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    Thank you, I’m glad you appreciate Bayern Alonso. This is why it’s a shame some voters only go via the photo.
  33. Nov 10, 2017
    #33

    harms Full Member

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    You're talking about a defensive midfielder who broke the BL record of the most passes attempted, completed and most touches (204) in one game. It's clear why Pep wanted him so badly - he is a perfect deep-lying playmaker who defends by not giving the ball away to the opponents, not by tackling (his tackling was always suspect by the way, not that unsimilar to Scholes - they both loved diving in tackles but received a lot of yellows for them because they rarely timed them right).

    It's definitely not a player you want when you already have 2 dominant playmakers — he doesn't bring that much in terms of playmaking itself, because those 2 already got it covered, and he doesn't balance them defensively because it's not his game.
  34. Nov 10, 2017
    #34

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    Out of curiosity why did you choose Bayern Alonso? Think the Real version is the peak one and also a great fit for your formation as well. At Bayern he was still good but to me on the wane.
  35. Nov 10, 2017
    #35

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    Im fecking lost, what does Bayern version of Alonso offer that Madrid version doesnt? There isnt a segment of his game where he was better in germany then when he was at Madrid. Defensive wise Madrid version is streets ahead of Bayern version IMO.
    Alonso was poor for Bayern and probably the biggest mistake Pep did there, if they played someone else in his spot im pretty sure they would have a much more serious attempt on the CL. But have to be honest, i dont see that midfield working with any version of Alonso, very odd trio.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
  36. Nov 10, 2017
    #36

    idmanager Full Member

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    Pretty much this. He has played the same role all his career, albeit under different managers and philosophies ranging from Jose to Pep.
    Just because the philosophy was different, doesn't make the player any different. Its not like he had a transition to various roles like Scholes did.
  37. Nov 10, 2017
    #37

    idmanager Full Member

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    The biggest testament to Alonso not working there is a team playing tiki-taka which defends through possession too couldn't trust him in the lineup without a Busquets there.
  38. Nov 10, 2017
    #38

    Oaencha Full Member

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    In my longer summary I mentioned Bayern and Real Madrid but I focused on Bayern because of how he was utilised. From the games I saw he played deeper, was chasing after the ball and flying into tackles. I’m not saying he didn’t do this at Real Madrid because he did but I really liked his Bayern years.
  39. Nov 10, 2017
    #39

    Oaencha Full Member

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    I’m not saying he was incredible at tackling but he was very good during his Bayern years (hence the mention). Ultimately he doesn’t even need to be incredible because of the quality tacklers I have behind him in defence. As long as he is keeping the attack busy the defence can do the rest.
  40. Nov 10, 2017
    #40

    Zlatattack Full Member

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    I voted for Moby. Bit of a newb at this but i reckon the two strikers and Platini would have been too much to handle for the centre backs. I just don't think oaencha's team could stop the supply to those three, not setup the way they are. I think Mobys 3 man defence would have coped with the attack and especially if the full backs kept supporting.