Ducker: Manchester United manager's faith in youth puts Pep Guardiola in the shade

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by #07, Feb 5, 2018.

  1. Feb 5, 2018
    #81

    Sassy Colin Death or the gladioli!

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  2. Feb 5, 2018
    #82

    fezzerUTD New Member

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    We didn't have enough players in midfield to say bring Carrick back at the time, we were down to bare bones. The game vs Sunderland comes to mind. Van Gaal was no stranger to playing players out of position, Lingard a Right wing back (hes never a wing back) when he got his injury. Blind as a CB?? He is a left back and DM.

    Seriously Van Gaal shouldn't get much credit at all for his time at Utd, yes he won the FA Cup but by god was it a slog. The team in the 2nd half seem to ignore tactics and play with freedom and reap the benefit by coming back.
  3. Feb 5, 2018
    #83

    Ramshock CAF Pilib De Brún Translator

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    Yep TFM and Axel have to next season. McTominay already getting his chance it seems.
  4. Feb 5, 2018
    #84

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

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    Pep can afford playing football manager, Mourinho can't. United are not financed by a regime.
  5. Feb 5, 2018
    #85

    DrRodo Full Member

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    Welcome to the internet. Were everybody has objective and factual opinions
  6. Feb 5, 2018
    #86

    Subho611 Full Member

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    That was fast :lol:
  7. Feb 5, 2018
    #87

    Djemba-Djemba Full Member

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    Ducker stepping out of line here in two aspects. Praising Mourinho, for anything other than setting up a good defence, and also criticising Guardiola. His fellow hacks won't like that.

    I've said for years I don't see any youth player ever making an impact at City. They'll never get a Rashford come through because they never take that risk. It's the same with Chelsea and their woeful track record for bringing young players through. City will always just splash the cash instead, it's quicker and easier.

    This Phil Foden is apparently very promising but I'm sure he'll go the same way as the Gael Kakutas and Josh Mceachrens of Chelsea.

    We get the usual avalanche of articles every season when City win the Youth Cup about how incredible their youth system is and how far behind Utd lag and then a year later they've had nobody even close to coming through and we've usually blooded one or two into the first team squad.
  8. Feb 5, 2018
    #88

    Boycott Full Member

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    Rashford had been on the bench months before his debut so it's not like he was a last resort.

    As for your main point - while sadly correct - there is a little fallacy with how youth players are treated like a hot potato. Clubs who neglect their academy players just to buy experienced players then have to continue to play those signings even when they're stinking the place up to justify the money spent. An academy player costs nothing yet is the biggest victim in this because they're at the bottom of the pyramid.

    Whatever you think about Tim Sherwood, he was spot on about his appraisal of Renato Sanches. Had an academy player delivered the level of performances he put in they'd have not lasted three games. I'm not suggesting Sanchez should have been returned to Bayern but it's yet another example where reputation and/or money spent immediately one-ups a player brought to the club over a player whose been their since childhood.

    As someone who follows youth football I also resent the line many managers peddle which has been bought by fans - "they'll get their chance by being the best performing player in their position in training'.....take Chelsea as an example - how do we not know that Dom Solanke wasn't outscoring and out-performing Batshayi in training yet he didn't make a SINGLE appearance in 2016/17 while Batshayi who cost £25m or so continued to get game time despite struggling through the season.
  9. Feb 5, 2018
    #89

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

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    Apparently not.

    With a 473 point lead and the bestest team ever Pep can't even find a place on the bench for youth players, while José has the balls of steel of trusting McTominay to teach Pogba a lesson. It's not even about points, the risk of it backfiring and leaving him with egg all over his face was significant.

    Delighted to see how McTominay stepped up to that. More of that attitude please.
  10. Feb 5, 2018
    #90

    MichaelRed New Member

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    First off mate, opinions most definitely can be wrong. If it is my opinion that the earth is flat and any attempt to tell me otherwise is a government conspiracy, does that mean I can't be wrong?

    Secondly, there is an ignore button. Lmao.
  11. Feb 5, 2018
    #91

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    Balls of steel ? It was Scott's 6th start of the season for United(his 11th appearance) against a doomed side at Home, it's not as though he tried an untested youngster
  12. Feb 5, 2018
    #92

    Di Maria's angel Captain of Moanchester United

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    Agreed. Scotts a seasoned pro.
  13. Feb 5, 2018
    #93

    Oldyella Full Member

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    Christansen is getting a good shot at Chelsea now. I think we will see it happen more with them as well now. Looking at their recent transfer targets, seems Abramovich is tightening the purse strings.
  14. Feb 5, 2018
    #94

    Offsideagain Full Member

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    Media, for a change, were praising United as we’ve had a product of the academy in the first team for every game for 50 seasons or something like that.

    Gary Neville has been slaughtered by the same Media for mentioning Guardiola missed the chance to give a youngster an experience of the first team routine. Amazingly, all the ex-professionals on the chat shows and phone ins agreed with Gary Neville but the never kicked a ball Journalists took Guardiolas side. Gits.
  15. Feb 5, 2018
    #95

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    The lad has already proved the stage isn't a problem for him, it wasn't as though Mourinho was throwing a virgin in there.
  16. Feb 5, 2018
    #96

    Ban Full Member

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    Love this argument from a random United fan - yeah he uses youth but what if he had more money.

    Guy just can't win.
  17. Feb 5, 2018
    #97

    haram Full Member

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    So he picks players who have come from our academy and people are still moaning :lol:

    He doesn’t like young players like Martial or Shaw either remember :lol:
  18. Feb 5, 2018
    #98

    Ban Full Member

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    For every anti Mourinho myth busted they'll find a new one or just twist an existing one just to suit their agenda.
  19. Feb 5, 2018
    #99

    haram Full Member

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    It’s honestly pathetic. He is OUR manager. These guys are morons.
  20. Feb 5, 2018

    Di Maria's angel Captain of Moanchester United

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    feck are you talking about? He gave Scott his debut and he recently picked him over Paul fecking Pogba.
  21. Feb 5, 2018

    Mr. MUJAC Talent spotter

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    Maybe he sees him as an important part of the squad.

    Like Ferguson did with the likes of John O'Shea.

    Given his important goals during his career, I would argue Mourinho is pretty happy with his current performances...otherwise he wouldn't play him.
  22. Feb 5, 2018

    Tapori Full Member

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    Plays Rashford and Lingard regularly though.
  23. Feb 5, 2018

    Tapori Full Member

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    Again, you keep citing finances and ignoring that within the squad he didn;t have to play Lingard anywhere near as often as he has to the point of keeping a midfield 2 simply to accommodate his progress.
  24. Feb 5, 2018

    Josep Dowling Full Member

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    This really is a myth. They have spent similar money to us this season, they just haven’t spent very well.
  25. Feb 5, 2018

    Tapori Full Member

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    Let me put it to you another way;
    Do you think Jose doesn't understand the clubs emphasis on youth?
  26. Feb 5, 2018

    R'hllor Full Member

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    Not sure why people on both sides, move lines even if its for one player, to take credit of him or to add credit to him.
  27. Feb 5, 2018

    Thepinhead Full Member

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    Something a lot of people tend to forget. They want us to win all matches but also play youth players every other game almost. I think Mourinho is doing well in giving our youth players minutes here and there.

    It is very few u23 players who can just go straight into a starting eleven at a club as big as ours with the pressure that follows. Even as big a talent as Martial and Pogba are finding it difficult to influence games against top level teams. So they probably still need a season or two with a lot of gametime to be consistent enough for a club as big as ours.
  28. Feb 5, 2018

    el3mel Full Member

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    Sorry but that's just not true at all, when did this happen ? We recalled Will Keane from loan during Jan to be the last resort in the attack. Rashford wasn't on the bench "for months" he just came out of the blue against that Danish team.

    The matchday threads are still there if you want to check out the formation and subs.
  29. Feb 5, 2018

    noodlehair "It's like..."

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    I think the truth is somewhere in between. If Jose had unlimited funds it's hard to see that he wouldn't have signed someone better...but at the same time he's certainly shown more faith in Lingard and Rashford than he had any obligation to. Particularly Lingard who he'd have gotten little to no stick about from anyone if he'd just left him on the sidelines, and who has come on a lot as a player as a result of Jose having faith in him.

    McTominay too...he's only had a small role but it's a role he could easily have given to someone else.
  30. Feb 5, 2018

    iluvurmummy Full Member

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    I think he’s done fantastically well in his handling of our young/youth products. Everyone was worried about Rashford when Mou came - and even now occasionally find ways to spout nonsense post Alexis signing - but he’s been one of if not the most used players this campaign. Lingard has been in the form of his life and for a few games was probably the first name on the team sheet; sure some can caveat it with how it more underlines United’s weakness at #10 [than anything else] but that still doesn’t take away from the performances he has produced.

    We’d all liked to have seen Tuenzebe, TFM and Pereira getting integrated in to the squad but to be fair they’ve all been on loans rather than wasting away a crucial phase of their young careers on the bench. The Pereira situation in particular will be very important for Jose to get right this summer as there’s clearly a space for him in this squad and he’s ready to be given a role.

    So far there’s been a good balance in using what we have and recruiting from the market.

    PS Angel Gomes got a couple run outs too!
  31. Feb 5, 2018

    Boycott Full Member

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    I did not say he was on the bench for months. He was however on the bench in these two games in November, three months before getting his break. Given how much stick Guardiola has received for not naming a 7th sub, this is something of note no?

    http://www.manutd.com/en/Fixtures-A...anchester-United-Barclays-Premier-League.aspx

    http://www.manutd.com/en/Fixtures-A...anchester-United-Barclays-Premier-League.aspx
  32. Feb 5, 2018

    el3mel Full Member

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    And then he completely disappeared from the match squads and was no where to be seen in the matches before his debut. We even recalled Will Keane from the loan in Jan to be a sub striker. If Rashford hadn't been the last resort for us, we would have recalled Keane at all. He was meant to take Rashford position.
  33. Feb 5, 2018

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    Well if you calm your knickers for a minute pal you'd know I originally replied to a post from @antohan

    while José has the balls of steel of trusting McTominay to teach Pogba a lesson
  34. Feb 5, 2018

    Nikelesh Reddy Full Member

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    Can't read the article,apparently I need to subscribe to the Telegraph to have the privilege of reading James duckers article!!
  35. Feb 5, 2018

    AR87 Full Member

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    The thing with Pereira is Jose wanted to use him as part of the squad this year as well. Pereira just wanted to be handed steady minutes which is fair enough. If anything I'd say Jose's obvious desire to keep Pereira here is a sign of him trusting youth.

    With TFM and Axel he didn't trust them yet and sent them on loan to get minutes elsewhere. For TFM this has been brilliant while the book is still out for Axel right now.
  36. Feb 5, 2018

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

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    And @Di Maria's angel was taking the piss because you were treating it as an easy call.

    Everyone in the matchthread was bricking it, and Wagner clearly instructed his hatchet men to target him and try break him under the weight of the enormous responsibility placed on his shoulders.

    It's one thing starting because Pogba and Fellaini are injured and a very different one starting and relegating our most expensive player to the bench. All eyes are on you and the manager will come under immense pressure if you don't perform.

    Stellar performance and mental strength, hopefully our more senior players took notice.
  37. Feb 5, 2018

    adexkola Arsenal supporter

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    Jose deserves praise for the way he has integrated Lingard, Rashford and McTominay into the squad. Hopefully Tuanzebe, TFM and Periera follow, it would be amazing to see that.

    However (blocked by a paywall, can't read the article fully), I'm not sure who the criticism should be aimed at, regarding this issue.
  38. Feb 5, 2018

    NW10 New Member

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    Is there a case for Jose using youth now to 'one up' Pep? I'm not saying I fully believe this to be the case but Jose knows that Pep has him beat him this season and his character is one that we have seen to be petty at times. He loved when he was the English media's darling and playing some homegrown youngsters while pointing out how Pep doesn't, could be another play in the grand scheme of things for Jose to get the better of City and Pep one day soon (Maybe next season).
  39. Feb 5, 2018

    Schmiznurf Full Member

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    The league wasn't won by City last year and Jose was still playing the youth, not one upmanship at all.
  40. Feb 5, 2018

    iluvurmummy Full Member

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    Yeah can’t blame the kid, with the benefit of hindsight I really wish he had stayed though.

    I actually completely forgot to mention McTominay in my post, who though may seem unspectacular, has showed great maturity and has paid back Mourinho with solid performances sticking to the basics of keeping it simple and following the manager’s instructions.