Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by marktan, Aug 5, 2018.
What about people defending Mourinho?
The manager/coach is always up for debate. They come and in do what they can but I never like to see any manager get loads of abuse. Behind every bad manager there is a bad board and owners. And the board and owners are much harder to get rid of or be held accountable.
I'd like to think people have looked at Mourinho now and thought maybe the abuse they gave Van Gaal was too much or Moyes before.
They all failed because of the structure around them IMO.
So it’s ok to debate whether or not the manager is competent but we should abuse anyone who disagrees with your opinion about Woodward’s competence?
Am I the only one who remembers how convinced all the Arsenal fans were that their board/owners were a cancer at the club and they were doomed without a massive overhaul at the top?
Turns out that hiring a manager who gets the team playing well and winning football matches completely changed that narrative. Go figure
Exactly. Especially at clubs like ours where a hell of a lot of freedom is given to the manager - and in our case huge amount of funds - zero excuses for not being able to stamp your mark on a side and all it takes is the right appointment for it to turn around rather quickly.
The same structure that's given them 700million to spend?
Same with Liverpool fans too, they were annoyed that they aren't spending big and money ball is not working, with Klopp it's all fine now. Good coach changes everything.
To be fair they divided Wenger's former duties when they hired a DOF. That's the issue with our board and owners, they are not making the necessary changes. Liverpool are a better example of a manager changing everything within the same structure.
All eyes on him now.
Mourinho is cooked. A sickly, fcuked up looking bird.
Nothing left to do but sack the cnut and yet we hear nothing of it.
Fair point. Also, how about Spurs? Gone from “lads, it’s Spurs” to nailed on for a top four slot without any kind of structural overhaul, in an era where top four is harder than ever to achieve. While the teams around them are blowing their wages/transfer budget out of the water.
I’m no fan of Woodward and I’m fully on board the DoF hype train but people are underestimating the massive positive effect a really good manager can have, even in circumstances that are less than ideal for him. Unfortunately, we’ve hired three consecutive managers with obvious flaws and all three of them have failed in accordance with these obvious flaws. The single biggest reason anyone should be abusing Woodward is his terrible taste in managers!
You don’t think Woodward’s propensity for throwing away full seasons before acting to rectify his own mistakes is worth criticising? Picking the wrong guy happens. Failing to correct your mistakes, over and over, is negligence.
That's the thing, the required structure is function of the expertise that you have within the club, there is no panacea. Spurs have a talented negotiator, talented talent spotters and they brought an excellent head coach. Liverpool brought a man with contagious enthusiasm and a deep understanding of what he wants and how he can get it. Arsenal decided to revamp their structure in order to compensate for the loss of the man that was in charge of everything.
They all did something different but the key is that they all did what suited them. Mourinho has never been an actual manager, it was his first experience at a job that didn't limit him to a head coaching role, people will mention Real but we all know that it's not how this club work. Unfortunately it's clear that he doesn't have the tools to be a manager and Woodward own tools do not compensate for it, which means that they are probably both detrimental to each others. If Mourinho wasn't acting like a twat, he could stay and restart with a structure that helps him and woodward but they both seem to be way too self centered to ever make it work after everything that has happened in 2018.
Like I said, ideally we get rid of both, bring a new CEO, bring a DOF and a head coach. Depending on the profile of the head coach the board can give him more or less influence but it's important to have at least one expert between the head coach and the executive board because it allows it to go in all directions when it comes to HC appointments, you can go with a manager or an inexperienced head coach, the DOF/technical directors will always be there to fill the gaps.
Comoli left and Michael Edwards came in 2016. So it wasn't just Klopp, Edwards formed part of the new team.
He was pretty decisive when it came to sacking Moyes and Van Gaal. The latter maybe should have got his P45 before Christmas but then we maybe wouldn't have won the FA Cup? When it comes to sacking Mourinho, then a lot will depend on who's available/capable of replacing him. I don't see any obvious candidates now, so can't really blame Woodward for being extra cautious about getting this next decision right. Even if that does effectively write off the season.
Waiting is all very well, but at what cost longterm. It is clear he has 'lost the dressing room' Key players are not signing new contracts, openly letting it be known that they are waiting to see what happens with the manager first before committing. There comes a point when Ed has to take the best interests of the club as a priority. Maybe there isnt a permanent option available right now but certainly a caretaker manager could do wonders to lift the spirit and the players.
Which is why we should have sacked him in the summer...it's not as if the board were willing to throw millions at him again.
Who was available in the summer though? Also, sacking him after finishing second (plus making FA Cup final and CL knock-out rounds) would have set a crazy high bar for the next bloke.
If the team is winning then people forget about the owners etc. I remember one Arsenal fan on AFTV constantly banging on about how nothing will change until Kroenke and the rest of the board feck off etc. Think he goes by the name of Bully. It seems he's more active on the Caf nowadays.
It wasn’t just one Arsenal fan. They were all saying how Kroenke had ruined the club. How he only cared about top four and that they’d never compete with the other big clubs with him in charge etc etc etc. (sounds familiar, right?)
Hey presto, less than half a season later and they’re a completely different team, with the manager the only thing that’s changed.
Exactly! People banged on about how Arsenal will fall into a great depression once Wenger leaves. Nope they just got a decent coach that works hard + concentrates on football, not being a celebrity. Surprise surprise they're looking good again.
They're still competing for top 4 and doing exactly the same results they were doing under Wenger, the same results that kept him in job. I don't understand what's that massive difference people keep banging on. Last I checked they have been alternating between 4th and 5th this season. A routine "Wenger" season so far.
These talks about Arsenal make me think they were a midtable club under Wenger.
They still don't spend as much as they need to to compete for the honours they were competing for before Kroenke came.
That's true, but the fan in question was a constant.
Another thing which alot of their fans kept banging on about was, how there wasn't a suitable candidate to replace Wenger. Never heard anyone mention Emery. Something we should learn from their hierarchy.
I think we'll see us follow them in appointing a DoF pretty soon.
They’re spending a hell of a lot more since he took over than they did beforehand, that’s for damn sure!
There players are showing a intensity I hadn't seen in many years. Under Wenger I believe they would've capitulated against Spurs.
Wenger defeated Spurs last season at Emirates.
They were ultra shite last season but back to the ones before it and compare it to this one, just their routine season, that's all, and they're still competing for top 4 only, which is appropriate for their spending.
£140m - 2017/2018
Eh? Everyone and their dog knew Wenger was done long time before they let him go. If anything, people wanted him to stay in Arsenal...
Kroenke still doesn't give near enough money to make Arsenal challenging.
But yeah, right manager/coach can make things much better.
Could not agree more re: Arsenal. They battered Spurs at the Emirates last year, more convincingly than this year. It was the same when they drew with Liverpool the other week at home. Wenger drew 3-3 with them last year from 2-0 down. And this was Wenger's worst season ever remember. They're going to finish 1 at best 2 places above last years disaster and one of the main reasons is because we've imploded.
It's the same with Sarri and Chelsea. People talking about what amazing transformation they've had.
They walked the league under Conte with pretty much the same players about 18 months ago.
He took the club over in 2011.
And did the same with Mourinho. They also won the Champions League and FA Cup double with fecking Roberto Di Matteo in charge!
Chelsea are a really strange club, with players that seem to down tools the second they come up against any adversity. Then up their game massively whenever a new manager takes over.
Which is different to the United players, who have the downing tools part sorted but struggle with the whole picking them up again bit.
I don't know about Chelsea but yeah people are overestimating Arsenal season like hell, as if they were midtable club under Wenger and now competing for the league.
I'd say it's quite early on. He got a tiny transfer budget last summer. They're playing well right now, aided by low expectations but what happens when they need to strengthen in the summer, will the money be there? How will that squad deal with both Prem and CL...
Exactly. Shows you how much the players dictate there. It's the sign of a poor and weak structure.
We're going the same way.
I doubt a Wenger team could've come from a goal down against a top 6 side. There was a reason they were referred to as being bottlers under him. Xhaka was playing poorly under him too along with a lot of other players. Emery seems to be getting much more out of the players in comparison.
We’ll have to wait and see. What I can say for certain is that their form so far this season is streets ahead of anything we’ve produced since Fergie was in charge and that has to be primarily down to their manager.
£28.4m net per year under Kroenke. The £60m net last year really isn't particularly substantial in today's market either. The ownership qualms are justified.
They did several times. Here's one, against fecking Guardiola :
I couldn’t give a toss about their ownership qualms tbh. I reckon Pocchetino would kill to get that sort of financial backing, that’s for sure.
Besides, if the concerns are justified that only reinforces my point. The right manager can turn things round, whether or not the board/owners situation is optimal.
I'm not saying anything to the contrary. He's been a revelation thus far. It's just the long haul that I'm mindful of.
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