Ed Woodward 2019-2020 edition.

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by fallengt, Apr 21, 2019.

  1. Jun 15, 2019

    Johan07 Full Member

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    I cannot answer a question that is flawed to begin with. Same with your question "How long until Woodward should step away fully from the footballing side".
    Its a flawed question to begin with because the CEO will always have the final responsibility and say over everything in the company. That is the essence of being the CEO. That will always include the "footballing side". Then of course I am of the opinion that Woodward´s influence over the footballing side if one by that means the day-to-day business and transfer activities for example; is so much less than people think.
    But thats why I did not even reply to that part of your badly phrased question to begin with.
    And not everything on here is opinions. There are facts and arguments as well. If you learn to separate those three basic things you will do better here with your posts in the future.
  2. Jun 15, 2019

    the chameleon Full Member

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    Fair enough. That’s a decent answer.

    I think where we disagree is around the topic of whether a CEO of a football club should:

    A - hire a manager and give him free reign to everything
    B - hire a DoF / have a footballing structure in place which keeps things consistent
    C - hire a manager and to let him play his philosophy but hire players for him

    The problem with Woodward is he sits somewhere between A and C. It’s like having an idea for tech company and being that entrepreneur who just hires a team of web developers and tells them make an app on dating like tinder. It has the makings of a complete disaster.

    What you can do is partner with someone savvy in tech and give him vested interest to make the best app on dating. Someone who has some understand on who to hire and how startups are run.

    This is where I would want woodie to go. Bring in some savvy people who have an idea of how to run the football side.

    What most fans want is a modern structure which allows us to thrive regardless of a manager. Just look at Barcelona / Ajax. They can change their managers but the club ways stay constant.

    Maybe this wasn’t a thing in the past because we relied on Fergie. But right now, woodie is playing this incompetence game of going from manager to manager trying find a needle in a haystack that will fix us and bring back the glory days. I’m afraid it’s not the way any more. The game has changed ever so much since 1986.

    Yes. Woodie may get it right next year and luck out on a gem of a manager on a shoestring budget that makes a turd like Phil jones suddenly appear world class.

    But surely we could build a structure at the club which maximises success.

    In other words start relying on a system rather than saviour manager.

    It will put less pressure on managers to become the new Fergie / Busby.
  3. Jun 15, 2019

    Fosu-Mens Full Member

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    So, everyone can expect to win the CL each year?

    As i tried to showcase in my post: Premier league TV-income is not much different if you get 10th or 1st compared to the theoretical investment needed in the squad. So, if your hypothetical owners/CEO govern the club based on a short term ROI principle then investing with the aim to win the EPL is not worth it.

    On the other hand, the financial difference between getting top 4 and CL group stage compared to 5th and no CL is monumental. Especially since the Adidas deal is tied to us competing in the ECL to max out the payment for us. Hence, us investing heavily and making changes to get top 4. The additional investment needed to be contenders for the title makes it not worth it.

    As for our monumental increase in wages and the amount spent on transfers: Needed to get top 4.



    Liverpool has improved each year, both on and off the pitch. Their new owners tried and failed in the start in regards to recruitement and manager(s), then made the changes both on and off the pitch. Do i think that a large part of this is down to Klopp? Yes and he would have performed better for us than JM, but no chance he would have been as successful for us with our current structure and ways of doing things. Liverpool have taken the long term perspective with investing in data analyzing, currently building a new training ground, Anfield capacity increase and modernization and they even have a throw in coach...

    And now they see the benefits of this. Same as City are. But some people may say that it is all down to the manager....

    Are you trying to say that the Glazers wants titles? That their ownership of this club is due to them wanting to make the club the best football club on the pitch in the world?

    I'm not disagreeing that on-pitch success will lead to financial success, long term. Short term, not necessarily true.
  4. Jun 15, 2019

    sunama Baghdad Bob

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    Oh yeah baby.
    He is our hero...our saviour and will do everything possible to have us winning the 4th place trophy.

    I'm sure plenty will defend him. They'll claim that he spends a lot of money and completely ignore the fact that we are a 4th-7th place team (the Jose 2nd season excepted, when we miraculously finished 2nd, then hung Jose out to try the following Summer, instead of pushing on for 1st place).

    I sound like a broken record, but while Woodward is in charge of footballing matters, 4th-7th place is what we should expect. Even if we got Messi or any other GOAT player, we'll still struggle because Woodward always backs the players, over the manager. Why would a player give 100%, if he knows that if he gives 80%, the manger will be fired, but he himself (the player), will remain unscathed?

    When SAF was here, the players knew that if he screw up, they'll be sold. The manager would never get the blame. So they only option they have is work hard and give 100% on the pitch so that the whole world could see that they giving maximum effort.
  5. Jun 15, 2019

    sunama Baghdad Bob

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    Based on the last 5 years, Madrid are a few levels above us and are doing everything possible not to drop to our (lower) level.
    God damn Woodward.
  6. Jun 15, 2019

    Johan07 Full Member

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    Much better post. And this is what we should be discussing because its IMO why we are in limbo today.
    I will disregard your C, because I dont think thats really a thing.
    We are trying to move as a club from A to B and its a slow and painful journey. We dont have the tradition of Ajax and Barca and the organisation of those clubs form the youth level and up. And its not something you build in just a couple of years.
    I think we all can agree on that when Sir Alex suddenly quit, there was no continuancy plan in place.
    In retrospect you can blame Gill and the Board for not being more forward-thinking.
    But practically: United under Sir Alex was a well oiled machinery, the first managerial appointment was never going to be anything but a direct replacement for the great man.
    Giving Moyes Fergusons reigns full stop as well as putting him on a six year-contract did not really help any thoughts of maybe restructuring the club in the near future either.
    I think the club was shocked when Moyes flopped the way he did and so soon
    Woodward being six months into his new job when he had to start to contemplate firing Moyes and appointing a new manager didnt really leave a lot of time for at the same time considering restructuring the football-side of the club either.
    The appointment of LvG mentoring Giggs was at least some form of plan (and thats where the DoF idea first started float about as well). And its also when the club started to revamp the scouting and youth departments. It was a beginning of us moving towards B. But to be fair there had not been much time for carving out this plan either.
    My biggest criticism of Woodwards choices is that he signed off on Mourinho (even if this is in retrospect as well), which basically meant ripping the club back to basic A and no more progressive thinking towards B.
    Now we seem to be back on track moving towards B, which IMO is the future, even if I dont think that the difference will be that big that some people think.
    How to judge Woodward from this? Tough hand to be dealt from the start, handled it decently, I dont know if anyone would have done it better at least.
    I also think one should remember that Sir Alex, Sir Bobby and Gill still carries a lot of weight at the club and that it might not be so fecking easy to drive the club towards B when there are still a lot of A people left at the club.
  7. Jun 15, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    Ah bless, he has to block me cause he can't hold a debate against me :)

    Right, where to start with ripping apart your sentiments, here....we...go

    Times have indeed changed, but unless you were in favor of sacking Ferguson or over ruling him to the point of installing a DoF above him then little could change with him there, could it?

    Next bold part - Yes it is indeed 6 years, but he inherited an absolute shit show from Ferguson and Gill by having Moyes as manager. On top of that the team badly, badly needed to be rebuilt as Fergie left an ageing team with I believe nearly 10 players aged 29 and older, some like Scholes and Giggs were pushing 40 FFS!

    Again, yes it is 6 years and yes you are a spoiled brat no more and no less. You and I and millions of others grew up in a time with a world class manager that stayed at the club 3 decades just about and that will never happen again, at any club with that level of success. But many think its perfectly normal to expect that constantly and United shouldn't be without titles for any period of time.... NEWFLASH... We went 40 years without a title pre Busby, then another 27 from Busby to Ferguson.

    We've not ever been a team to consistently challenge for leagues...EVER. Sorry to completely burst your bubble but that's the absolute cold, harsh facts laid bare! It's a competitive league and runs in cycles, always has and always will.

    As for your sentiments about "top coaches"... Both are considered top coaches. I dislike Jose, but reality is he is considered a top coach. That was your statement, you said we can't attract top coaches which is BS! We can and have!

    Nice spin on your narrative too by applying hindsight to enforce your idiotic sentiments. When Jose was hired many believed we would do a 180 and return to being successful, but let me guess in all your infinite wisdom you didn't want him or believe that? You never wanted Jose ;)

    There's so much wrong with your little list

    - paying Fellaini over his clause - This is what happens when Moyes dithers all summer long chasing unrealistic targets and backs you into a corner on D-Day. You are bargaining from the losing side, its playing a losing hand.
    - hiring 3 desperados on the last day of transfer window to close Herrera deal and then briefing they weren't there for us - The Spanish lawyers?
    He was new to the job, of course issues would happen, do you not blame Gill in anyway for our failing structure? Where is your vehement hatred towards him for tucking tail and running and not assisting the new hire? Nah, just easier for simpletons like you to just pass the blame to Ed.

    - not getting any value for our players - Where would we get value on them? :lol::lol::lol: Did you expect world record fees for border line obese Anderson who needed an oxygen tank on the side of the pitch after his transfer? Did you expect big fees for injury prone Rafael or RVP? Oh maybe we should of demanded a world record fee for squad level players like Cleverly and Welbeck who demanded 1st team football over RVP & Rooney and forced a move. The players moved on for the most part were not worthy of big fees and reality is this, if they aren't cutting it at United and going to smaller clubs, its simple common sense that we will lose out on fees. But common sense seems a foreign concept to you.
    - overpaying every single one - Same as above but in reverse. Players are moving to a bigger club, they know we have the funds and agents demand it. But to state "everyone" is utter bollicks. No we didn't over pay on every single one as you put it.
    - wages all over the place - That is as much on the manager as it is him. Again I've given the example of if a manager is demanding a player to be signed or stay, as CEO he has to be seen to support his appointment / manager doesn't he? So in your wee list here you prove my point you blame Ed for supporting AND...NOT supporting the manager.
    - a team with no identity whatsoever - How in the feck is the team on him? Is it his fault players can't cross? Is it his fault players can't finish? He allowed his appointments (LVG / Jose) to role out their own identities.
    - hiring Ole who never operated on this level with the support of Phelan? - Suppose you think Real are a joke too by hiring ZZ? Maybe Barca were morons as well for giving the job to Pep? Oh Chelsea too now appointing Lampard? Worst sentiment of the lot this.
    - leaving Herrera deal to expire because Jose didn't fancy him, but Ole clearly does - He didn't leave it at all, Herrera was a sneaky feck who wanted out for ages. Help if you knew what you were on about a bit. As per his interview here, he admits last March that he already had an offer and was unlikely to renew well over a year ago. So reality is, he had an offer 2 years ago and wanted out. https://www.mundodeportivo.com/futb...-premier-league-messi-cristiano-valverde.html
    - giving extension to Mourinho and not backing him when he was already in meltdown - Why are you ignoring everything that happened prior to that?
    Why are you ignoring his embarrassing Sevilla failure? His disgusting post match interview where he humiliated the club and promoted himself? What about Jose admitting he couldn't motivate players publicly through April and May? What about Jose publicly supporting the renewal of Fellaini's contract and weaking the clubs power in said discussions?? Most importantly here, we get plebs like you then blaming Woodward for him staying!!! What about Jose giving an interview in the US and telling supporters not to attend matches? Jesus, you've some warped fecking head and are full blown biased and have a skewed, ill informed agenda.

    - briefing the press behind his back or basically going in the season doomed to fail - WTF are you on about here even? This is the biggest load of BS! If you want to talk about leaks to the press, What about Mendes (Jose's agent) leaking the news of LVG's sacking right after he won the FA Cup?
    Jose went public and stated himself outright in interviews that he already had wrote off the season - https://www.independent.ie/sport/so...ike-everyone-else-says-mourinho-37342611.html.
    What kind of message is that as manager to give to your players? How in the feck is that Woodwards fault?
    Meanwhile Poch who didn't get a single player at all, made a champions league final.

    - stating that our performance on the pitch don't have relation to money making which is the dumbest thing I heard ever - Well, matter of fact it didn't. If we had succeeded on field our revenues would of just increased further is all. On field we failed, meanwhile our revenues continued to grow because Ed and business side were doing their job. Pity our fecking managers didn't follow suit!

    The irony and double standards in your last line, brilliant...absolutely brilliant. You are completely, utterly brainwashed and a lost cause and clearly extremely ill informed as you've posted things here that I've disproved.

    A very simple question, do you honestly believe that if Ed is removed from the role of CEO, We will become successful again?
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
  8. Jun 15, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    But somewhere between A & C is how the club has been ran for decades, legit feckin decades! It hasn't changed going all the way back to Busby even. Structurally its almost identical throughout.

    Managers are often over ruled in terms of transfers and not just at United. It happens at all clubs throughout the world but only our fan base loses its mind over it and hangs onto the most minor of details like the CB fall out. He appeared to not want to sell any of his CB's, favored Jones and Smalling over his own investments of CB and then sold arguably our best performing CB to that point in Blind, but then decided to fall out with his managers in turn over this disagreement.

    I've said all along in this discussion that I'm all for modernizing the club but in reality its an extremely difficult thing to do what with the history of our club and finding what that role will involve exactly, finding the right candidate that works well with both Ed and the manager, whomever it is.

    I gave the example earlier, City was bought in 2008 and didn't get Txiki until 2012. Similarly with Liverpool and Fenway Sports, they had Rodgers and they struggled as well with hit and miss seasons and we mocked them for finishing midtable. It wasn't until the appointment of Edwards that things have started to turn for them the last 2 seasons only.

    But the way our supporters post its like they've already dominated for decades!
  9. Jun 15, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    I don't get your opening line? I highly doubt every club would expect to win it, but they'd give it a try of course. A club of our size and resources would try to aim to win as much as possible.

    There isn't massive variances in revenue and I get that, but what we can see is a board that have heavily invested in new players and hiring top coaches and paying them top buck to deliver the best results.

    Our increase in wages is a direct product of hiring Jose, it increased under his tenure by 100m. That's on top of the near 500m in transfer fees as well.

    Anyone running our eye over our financials can clearly see the board want to be successful, it isn't hard to see.

    Liverpool had their errors as well, like hiring Rodgers? Going from 2nd to 6th and then 8th! Its only from arguably 2016 with the appointment of Edwards after hiring Klopp did things start to turn for them. So, they too had hiccups over a few years from 2013 to 16. They haven't as you've said improved year on year cause they were in free fall at one point as well.

    City as well were bought out in 08, they did gradually improve and your description of annual improvement is more apt with City. They've only really started to dominate though with Pep showing up. However that too took time to put in place and Txiki was the start of all that and he only arrived 4 years post buy out.
  10. Jun 15, 2019

    Jim Beam Full Member

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    Mate, I have to say I absolutely admire your enthusiasm. Will answer tomorrow, going out. Cheers
  11. Jun 15, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    Enjoy, try not to let your obsession with Woody ruin your night ;)
  12. Jun 15, 2019

    Johan07 Full Member

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    Yes, absolutely. No question about it. But not for the same reasons as us fans.
    I can guarantee you that the Glazers has a business plan in place that targets Uniteds share value to maybe as much as 7-8bn in five years. Its 4bn now. Thats also why they wont sell now. Way too much upside.
    Thats where the real profit is for them, not in maximising revenue and taking out dividends of 25m every year. Its peanuts to them.
    And they wont get to 8bn share value without United winning titles, being one of the top three clubs in the world. Which will increase brand recognition even more and drive sponsorships, etc. Its the most important thing for them. Its pure financial logic.
    Which is why they have spent so much on transfer fees and wages the last couple of years. If they just wanted to maximize revenue that would be stupid. Its clear evidence of that they want to bring United back to the top. Not because they love the club, but because that is where the real money is for them. Real, real money.
    We will see the Glazers sell when they belive that the max share value has been reached and they will def spend to get there.
  13. Jun 15, 2019

    Crustanoid Full Member

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    I have not been to a United match since early 2014. I am local and can see OT from my window. I have bought nothing from them for a very long time. Does anyone else want to protest against the parasitic ownership or will you just carry on mincing around the subject and complaining. The Glazers need to go-if we want to go anywhere.
  14. Jun 15, 2019

    Im red2 Prophet of Doom

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    You are either ED Woodward or his mother.
  15. Jun 16, 2019

    Im red2 Prophet of Doom

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    GReat guy Woodward , managed the hostile takeover and has assured that most profits go to the owners regardless of how crap the team has become on the pitch. United still have Young ; Smalling, Rojo , Jones, on the pitch at the back, why do you think we do not spend some serious cash to replace at least Young, Rojo and Jones? Or do you think these guys are still good enough? I mean, people like you amaze me.
  16. Jun 16, 2019

    Im red2 Prophet of Doom

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    To any Manchester United fan worth his salt.... Ed Woodward is the worst thing that happened to United for about 100 years. The arsehole needs to be outed, for if he is not then the club is going to nosedive so deep that it will take years to crawl back up.
  17. Jun 16, 2019

    Foxbatt Full Member

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    Of course he is and it is time The Glazers realise this and move him to some other part of their business if they are so fond of him.
  18. Jun 16, 2019

    Saf94 Full Member

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    Fans love to massively oversimplify the problems we have. And they especially love having this sort of messiah thing going on where replacing one man with another will fix all our problems. If it isn’t the manager then it’s the DoF or the CEO. Guess what, things are not that simple at all. Even if we got rid of Woodward there’s no guarantee someone else could come in and do much better.

    People love to think we get a footballing mind in at DoF but how many DoFs have failed? Even some of the best guys have struggled like Monchi did at Roma and Steve Walsh did at Everton after leaving Leicester.

    Our problems are vast and deep. Its super easy to say get rid of one guy and everything will be fine but it doesn’t work like that. If Woodward goes what do people expect to happen? We magic out an amazing system where all our players improve, suddenly we sign players no ones ever heard of who become superstars or we somehow start to attract the worlds best talent from the top teams? Realistically what would a new chief do?
  19. Jun 16, 2019

    sp_107 New Member

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    Papers report that Ed is offering 350K a week to Rashford and Maguire, God when this will end? He must go as he is constantly making wrong decisions

    He should have extended Rashford contract long time back and now paying 350K a week for a player worth 150K per week at max

    200K extra per week Means we are paying 10 mil extra per year and that is 40mil for 4 years

    So question is,

    Rashford on 18M a year for 4 years = 72M
    40M new striker on 8 mil per year = 72M

    Which one you go for ?

    I will go for someone like Haller/Werner in 40-50 mil range
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  20. Jun 16, 2019

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    Oh yeah let's forget about Munich, oh yeah let's forget about getting relegated 6 years after winning the European Cup......

    State of this place at times.
  21. Jun 16, 2019

    Jim Beam Full Member

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    Jesus
  22. Jun 16, 2019

    Alvaro Maestre New Member

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    Woodward, is that you? Sign De Ligt.
  23. Jun 16, 2019

    Hawks2008 Full Member

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    What a bootlicker :lol:
  24. Jun 16, 2019

    C'est Moi Cantona Full Member

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    We need to stop this, Woodward does not own the club, it is the Glazers that are allowing such an inept football man to run the show, Woodward is just following orders.

    I hope when this all blows up in their faces again next season that the anger is directed the right way this time, Ed is a Womble of the highest order, but he isn't the cause of all this.
  25. Jun 16, 2019

    oz insomniac New Member

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    All this analysis of Woodward's contribution is worthless as we head into 2019/2020. Most of us have little time for the bean counter, but as he has continued his " I am king of everything at ManUtd" , his ability to attract quality players and sign them on realistic contracts is going to pretty much define his usefulness to anyone but the Glazers.

    Certainly he has overseen the clubs spiral below other EPL clubs and some Euro teams quick time, and compared to Real's quick foray this off season, the decisive edge needed is not there. It's difficult to get players to commit if you can't sell a vision of where the clubs heading, it's not the same as selling sponsorship to star struck older fans that still vividly remember the days of unrivalled success.

    It feels as the if the next 2 to 4 weeks either cement his uselessness or improve his standing to meh, you cant run the club as a your personal toy and not expect to be judged results against your peers. Let's hope there is more confidence in his ability to turn the ship around rather than just make outlandish statements than have not been fulfilled.
  26. Jun 16, 2019

    Jim Beam Full Member

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    Was giving a benefit of doubt as I was a bit drunk, so tried to go over it now again.

    Christ. You can't type that shit with a straight face. Shitting on Fergie to defend this bellend was icing on the cake which was absolute shit in the first place.

    I believe he and you can continue to celebrate our noodle sponsors, he can stay as CEO and leave the football side of things to someone else.
    I also think you should leave posting and writing to someone else.

    Edit: feckin hell, you're online again...
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  27. Jun 16, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    When all else fails and you are losing the discussion just resort to juvenile humor. Have you anything intelligent to add?

    Hostile? Hostile? Feck me you seriously are an absolute pleb! There wasn't anything "Hostile" about it at all. They took majority stake in the club over a 2 year period why and how?

    They bought the club because Ferguson fell out with the previous owners Magnier & McManus over Rock of Gibraltar (a race horse). You haven't one single feckin clue what your posting about.

    Having seen your profile and age on it, 14...it all makes sense now. You shouldn't be allowed post here at your age in reality. This is where adults come to discuss things.

    Run along now and play some fifa.

    Disgusting comment, as another poster said we've had players and staff die for the club and you undermine it with this? You've a lot of growing up to do!

    You definitely should be banned for such a comment.

    How did I shit on Fergie? :lol: Sensitive much ffs!

    He didn't have it in him to rebuild again, so the team aged and he ran it into the ground for all its worth. Why deny facts? Squad posted below with ages...

    http://en.eufo.de/index/squad/manchester-united/2012-13

    He favored 38 year old Scholes and 39 year old Giggs as a CM partnership for god sake! Our defence was Rio (34), Vidic & Evra (31)... with support from Jones and Smalling.

    To confound problems, Fergie goes to meet Pep in New York for dinner and begin discussion about taking over at OT the following season. Due to language difference things were lost in translation and Pep went and joined Bayern instead. Meaning we ended up with Dithering Dave and Gill goes and fecks off into the sunset without a care in the world. Gill is still taking a salary out of the club as well BTW, But we've short sighted folks like you turning a blind eye to it and praising him still!

    The team was ageing, it was in decline and needed huge, huge upheaval. We've sentimental farts that couldn't accept a new era and still to this day piss n moan like you do about the sales of players like RVP & Evra for god sake!

    How is it not true that Ed Woodward inherited an absolute feckin mess? How?
  28. Jun 16, 2019

    ayushreddevil9 Full Member

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    There's so much work to do with the squad and we have still not signed a first team player. I mean i know we have the fecker named Woodward in charge but this "we will get the signings done early" shite from every manager needs to stop.

    Show some fecking ambition. Get the players in early so that they could bed in.
  29. Jun 16, 2019

    Jim Beam Full Member

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    Yes, you should go to another swing party and return to your younger days. It would probably help.

    I never once mentioned Gill, what are you on about?
    Fergie would take 2 more titles with that team. It also wasn't a bad team, needed few signings and it would be competitive. 6 years forward we are still using most of his players as those who came are so bad that can't replace them.
    I can accept new era, am just explaining you the reasons for it you weirdo.
  30. Jun 16, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    What club in the league has done that yet though?


    Liverpool, City, Spurs and Arsenal haven't signed anyone yet either. I mean, Chelsea have just lost their best player and manager...and replacing the manager with their version of Ole essentially, you think we have it bad? :lol:
  31. Jun 16, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    Obsessed much? What a sad little man that when someone blows apart all your beliefs you've to resort to this? :lol:

    I mentioned Gill cause you are obsessed with blaming everything on Woodward. Gill could easily of stuck round and assisted, but he didn't. He walked away from his CEO role but remained on the board to take a salary still. I mean, can you get anymore sneaky and under handed? Where's the outrage towards him? Nah, just easier to blame Woodward like a child.

    It was a shit team, we continually went behind in matches and relied heavily on the brilliance of RVP or Rooney to save us every game. He set Rooney up for the sale, gave Moyes a head start on doing so and what did Moyes do? Bricked it and instead threw a whopper 5 year deal at him on mind boggling amounts for the time.

    You know its bad when one of your supposed best players is being forced out the door by Fergie.

    The point is your not accepting a new era, your rant last night proved you aren't accepting of a new era at all. You are still expecting the exact same level of success that Fergie got from his successor which is absolutely idiotic. It's not going to happen again, he was a once off. Facts are we've had 2 managers that have been successful out of 26 in a history spanning 140 years approx.

    Your rant last night involved moaning about them being sold and not recouping huge sums, who in that list realistically would dictate a huge transfer fee? None of them would cause of age, lacking quality or being injury prone.

    Again, that was Ferguson's worst team.
  32. Jun 16, 2019

    ayushreddevil9 Full Member

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    How many of these clubs need to invest significantly in the squad? Arsenal have pennies to spend, Chelsea still have their transfer ban, the top two literally need 1 or 2 players max.

    The only club that has money and has like 5-6 positions to improve upon is us and we are still sat back on our arses. We lost two players as well.

    You can't defend Woodward. Not against me atleast. You can carry the Woodward wankfest over somewhere else where there are people who think that all is well and rosy with the club.
  33. Jun 16, 2019

    Chesterlestreet Man of the crowd

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    I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. We should wait a couple of decades before we start questioning what the club are up to?

    Busby and Fergie were in charge for more than half a century combined. Their unusually long stints defined what United are. After Busby, United were firmly established as a huge club, and one with a special aura at that (which made us extremely popular, both domestically and abroad). This did not change in the years between Busby and Fergie. We drew the largest crowds, won the odd FA Cup (which had a very different status in the 70s and 80s, attracted top players and remained very much relevant in spite of not winning the league.

    And then came Fergie. United capitalized, in the Sky era, on two things: Fergie's managerial genius and our huge worldwide following (the legacy of Matt Busby, you could rightly call that). We turned into one of the richest clubs in the world - and have remained that in the years following Fergie's retirement.

    You make it sound as though we just naturally reverted to our old, fairly obscure existence after Fergie. Which is absurd. Even if Fergie had taken us from genuine obscurity to unprecedented glory (but it's not the case), what he established at United over the course of decades obviously would've altered the nature of the club dramatically. We're not talking about a random manager having a bit of success here, the scale is immense.

    What we've seen in the post-SAF era isn't par for the course (which is what you seem to suggest, more or less) - it's a blatant failure to restructure a football club with resources and a history very few can match.
  34. Jun 16, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    I'd argue...all of them! All clubs want success! Be naive to think otherwise...

    Arsenal need to replace Ramsey don't they? They need to add to their defence as well cause they are soft as they've been for years.

    Chelsea just sold their best player and as you point out are banned, so you think we got it bad?

    Spurs signed no one last season and are likely to lose Eriksen one of their best players as well. They badly want to build on the CF Final they made no doubt and now the stadium is built also I can see them wanting to add depth to their squad.
  35. Jun 16, 2019

    Jim Beam Full Member

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    Don't you think that's even more of a reason to change things.:lol: Also, we are not the same club as it was before, we managed to build an absolute giant thanks to Fergie and to just accept it as a new era with all this money we have is crazy.

    Am telling you weirdo that I have not so many issues with "new era" (some era though), I will still buy a ticket, go to an away game and have a great time once in a season. FA cup game against some lower team if I can choose.

    But, to have this amount of money and this level of incompetence is just mind blowing. Not a single transfer after Fergie that you can say it was a success, boring and outdated football, not managing to even get to top 4 in 4 out of those 6 years. If you think that is purely on managers, I don't know what to say anymore.
  36. Jun 16, 2019

    ayushreddevil9 Full Member

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    So just because Chelsea have a ban that gives Woodward the license to be complacent. Well done.

    Again, Arsenal have like 50m(according to reports earlier) to spend and its not possible for them to wrap up deals early without cash being readily available. Spurs are on their usual "hunting down the bargain bins" route.

    What has other clubs have to do with us? Just because others haven't signed players doesn't mean its all good? Look at Dortmund. Look at Madrid. Even Bayern have got two first team defenders in.

    But yeah just relax the feck out until other clubs start acting.
  37. Jun 16, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    The point I'm making is we are a club steeped in tradition and extremely sentimental. We are not a modernized club and well haven't been for decades. We've a generation of supporters who grew up thinking that walking to league titles is completely normal for United, in reality...it is not.

    By and large we have reverted to our status quo of struggling to compete, that's been the vast majority of our history but for Busby & Ferguson. England has always been an extremely competitive league weather its the old First Division or the inception of the Premier League, it has ran in cycles. Liverpool have had periods of dominance as we have had also. You've other teams on the cusp and have a dozen or half dozen of titles like Arsenal and Chelsea as well winning titles.

    It very much is par for the course, just reviewed our entire league history finishes and guess what..its 6th.
  38. Jun 16, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    Where did I say that it gives him license to be complacent? Who said he is being complacent? You've no idea what's going on behind the scenes.

    The point I'm actually making is that folks need to fecking chill a bit, no club has made big moves yet in the terms of transfers.

    Oh and of course other clubs are relevant, they are our main competitors on a weekly basis! They are likely to be interested and competing for the signatures of similar players, won't they?

    Yes look at Madrid...they signed Hazard after chasing him for how many fecking years? :lol::lol:
  39. Jun 16, 2019

    ayushreddevil9 Full Member

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    So you are actually suggesting that we should wait for other clubs to make moves before we make ours?

    Regarding madrid, they had ONE bad year and they got their shite together. And also you conveniently disregard the other signings they made to suit your agenda:lol:
  40. Jun 16, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    Well I've said all along I'm happy out with modernizing the club. But folks need to realize this isn't football manager or the like, its real life and these things take time to roll out. It isn't instantaneous and happen over night. I've given City & Liverpool as examples and shown how long it can take to roll our successful set ups, but folks are losing their minds cause after 6 months there isn't a DoF in place and believing every single word shit rags like the Sun print that's paints the club in a negative light.

    Money doesn't always mean you can guarantee success. Its how its spent and addressing key areas in the team that is more important. Leeds threw money at the team for years and paid the price and still are! AC Milan another, Liverpool have spent about the same as us in the league and still waiting 30 years for a title. Only recently with some structure in place and hiring a good manager and DoF(Edwards) in 2016 has it very quickly done a 180.