Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by fallengt, Apr 21, 2019.
Can't believe, though I shouldn't be surprised, that's it mid July, the day before first pre season game and 1 month from kick off, and we have signed bissaka and James.
Its beyond inept now.
At least wait until the transfer window is properly shut. August 8th - 9th is still over 3 weeks away. Give our manager a full window. So much can happen and so much has happened in those final 3 weeks.
Ole deserves a full season at least. He deserves a full summer window to sign who he wants and he deserves a full pre season aswell.
Just have patience. If it does go pear shaped then let's all moan.
Yea and we miss having a proper pre-season where new players can settle in. It's ludicrous the amount of time we take over transfers, especially for players we have a clear run for. It's incompetence on Woodward's part, nothing less. It's not Ole. It's on the bloody pencil pushing accountant.
CEO’s are ultimately responsible for everything. Whether they hire staff under them to handles tasks the performance of the business is their responsibility. It’s why they often resign when there is a high profile failure or the share price drop.
The problem we have with Ed is that as a football club we are failing but as a business we are very successful. If the shareholders (Glazers) goal was on the pitch success he would have been fired years ago.
Which is why we need a DoF. I'm okay with Woodward staying on as long as long as he stays out of the football stuff.
Totally agree with you mate. That is why I think we should brought in a DoF but as this didn't happen. I think Woody should have agreed a set budget with Ole plus whatever we make from sales and given it to Ole and just concentrated on negotiating the players contracts and getting us some more sponsors.
He’s incompetent in terms of running the football aspect of his job, simple as that but it’s not going to change. Seems like we need to sell before we can buy as well now and Ed isn’t good at either buying or selling let alone both.
Banker plays football chess
Raiola: I give you De Ligt (you give me nice bonus) and you give pogba the same deal Sanchez is on
Ed: I’m too smart for this. No deal. Also - no counter deal.
Result? Lose best CB of next 10 years
Pogba value diminish substantially with a thin contract next year. Massive loss $$
Ed then explains this to yes-man ole and ole goes to media beaming with a smile. Bless his heart
Mourinho saw right through his incompetence. Ed is fecking clueless in the street smarts
And he's hired arguably 2 of the best possible candidates at times of recruitment. It hasn't work out sadly.
Agree with all this especially the part in bold. The quicker we get Woody and the Glazer's out of the club the better.
That's what we're all about.
The manager can influence how long the preseason can be. Van Gaal reduced it to have more one on one time for player development. Jose came in and required that the tours be to US so he has better facilities and wanted to play more games. This owners want to peddle the players abroad to make money argument is utter unsubstantiated bullshit and a lazy agenda.
It's not exactly a new strategy tbf - the big English teams have done money-spinning preseason tours for decades.
A lot of fans seem to be very forgiving of Woodward and continue believing in his footballing decisions.
I remember, after a the disastrous Summer transfer window in 2018, many fans actually believed Woodie when he said that he wants to hire a DoF.
I stated at the time, that the only reason he said this is to take the heat off of him. He was getting flack in the media, that he basically screwed up. Woodie would then go on to fire Jose to again take the flack off of him. He then hired a MUFC legendary player (again to take flack off of him).
Even now, some fans believe that we are working on some massive transfers and still believe in Woodie.
How many times does Woodward have to prove himself as completely inept (in footballing matters) and prove that he only thing he cares about is saving money and increasing revenues? The man does not care how we perform on the pitch. Not one bit.
Then there are some fans who have deluded themselves into thinking that if we keep finishing in 4th-7th place, that our revenues will start to decline. This has not happened in the last 7 years. In fact, the opposite has happened. We've made more money, for each of those 7 years.
As long as we continue finishing in 4th-7th place, we will continue to grow the brand and Woodie will be happy. Need proof?
Notice, that the one time we did finish 2nd and were ready to push on for 1st place (in Summer 2018), he cut funding and told Jose Mourinho (who happens to know a thing or two about football), that the squad we have is good enough (which as fans, we all know is false).
I've said this in many other threads: while Woodward is in charge, we won't be finishing higher than 4th. And the only way we might finish higher than 4th is if we hire an elite level manager, though he'll get fired soon after (just as we saw with Jose).
Expect a few derogatory last minute offers for players we were never going to get just to keep the fans happy, made in full knowledge of this fact, but to keep us fans thinking we tried. Don't be fooled yet again, there's no intention to spend big.
Yes, and in isolation the appointments have been fine. However, at some point you have to question why nobody is being successful. Eventually you have to look at the guy doing the hiring to see if he has been setting these managers up for success.
I guess the only hope here is if our revenues fall behind the other top clubs. Revenue growth is inevitable as long as the tv money is coming in and just naturally through inflation. But if successful teams start to outstrip us it would reflect poorly on Ed.
No, it really is not. Thats not what a CEO does.
Personally feel all the managers have been backed nearly 100%! Only possible disagreements you could highlight are ADM and Jose' CB demands.
Ideal scenario is a DoF alright but Ed's haters ignore the fact it was discussed with Jose about hiring one and he refused. It's been 7 months post Jose and its been discussed again (Rio & Fletcher) but nothing certain has come from it.
Everyone is crying out for a stable, winning structure but it takes time and if we are serious about hiring a DoF I'd really prefer we took our time and got it right cause its far more important then the manager.
City owners bought their club in 08 and didn't have a DoF of note until Txikki showed up, 4 years later post 1st title win. Liverpool faffed about with stupid managerial appointments and crazy transfers under FSG from 2010 until 2016 (hiring Edwards), but 7 months is too long for our supporters.
We might well never have a DoF and it could go either way, Ole could do a great job still or it could hinder him.
A DoF has had mixed results at different clubs as well.
There's no set winning formula for clubs to take, if there was they'd all be doing it.
Has not this been done to death? Woodward did not hire Moyes and gave him a six-year contract. David Gill did. Plus Woodward was CEO for like six weeks of that summers transfer window. That window and the preparations for it is on Gill and Sir Alex as well.
I get that people dont like Woodward, but please keep your facts straight or its just stupid.
We have spent big for a decade in fairness. We've just not invested well. I don't really see a point of throwing cash about this summer. We've got the same guys presumably making the decisions on recruitment. The same guys (proven) to not be that great at it. I'd much prefer a window where we got in the right recruitment/scouting top dogs and forget about wasting more budget on potential dross. Obviously, this new structure should have been in place before the summer window opened but hey, that's us all over.
The appointment of a DoF will do nothing for Woodwards role as CEO.
All it will do is transfer power from the manager to the DoF on long and shortterm footballing decisions.
It will also transfer power from the head of scouting and head of the youth setup to the DoF.
Woodwards role though will be exactly the same as before.
This idea that an appointment of a DoF would change or diminish Woodwards role at the club is one of the falsest narratives on the Caf.
Hit the nail right on its head. We have such deluded fans saying Ed and Judge are the best in the field, Investment Banker's for x number of years etc.. However; that is well and good for the commercial side and Glazers pockets but not for fans.
You forgot to add the "we can do things in the transfer market that others can't " and " we will back our manager", notice how that was said in order to get season tickets sold and now nothing.
Gone are the days when not winning the league for 2/3 years was a warranted a sack. Now 4th is good enough.. and fans are happy competing with Arsenal, Chelsea who have a transfer ban.. we should be looking to build a squad to challenge the league?
Keefy still defending Woodward
I fully understand that and it took me a while to understand that even if we have a DoF Woody still has the final say on the transfers and the part in bold is why I want a DoF. I would like the DoF in so that he and Ole can concentrate on the football side and they decide on a list of transfer targets and hopefully Woody decides to financially back the decisions that they make. I don't think he should have any say on names just negotiate fees and contracts mate.
Not so much a defence more just correcting stupid statements attached to him / the board.
But its like fighting a bush fire with a water pistol the level of stupidity found on here.
He has no track record and has continually made wrong decisions for the past 5 years. On top of that he is a Glazer crony. He is the biggest reason for us losing our way and it started with the Glazers takeover.
No, I agree. I am also very pro an appointment of a DoF.
Just not for the reason that it will change Woodwards role, because it wont. It will just be a different reporting structure, where Woodward speaks with the DoF and not the manager.
My big argument for a DoF is that it might give us that bit of continuity that we have been lacking since Sir Alex left with different managers with different philosophies.
At the same time I am not so sure that this is an all-conquering argument either; because if we do appoint a DoF and things dont turn around like immediately: its just one more person for us Caftards to want to get rid of.
And to be fair, there is no real reason to think that a DoF would stay longer at his post than a normal manager does today either; like 2-3 years.
So will this really build continuity? Hopefully, but its far from certain.
I think if we/the Glazers really want to change the structure of the club, we should start by appointing a completely new Board of Advisors and thank Sir Alex, Sir Bobby and Gill for their commitment to the club.
It is going to be very difficult to change the organisation of the club with those three still having a say. And they dont advocate anything but all power to the manager himself, you just have to read one of Sir Alex books to understand what his position is on a "DoF." Thats something he and Mourinho agrees on.
Neither did Gill. Nor Edwards before him.
Gill was an accountant just like Ed and worked at Avis Car Rental, General Electric & First Choice Holidays, but to many of our supporters he was "a football man".
Reality is the Glazer ownership has been one of the clubs most successful overall, only Martin Edwards tenure trumps it in terms of trophies.
5 leagues, 1 CL, 1 FA Cup, 4 league cups, 1 Europa League & 1 Euro Super Cup.
Bitter pill to swallow I know, but that's what the record books will show.
We've a large section of our supporter base that think we should win the league ever year cause Fergie did so, he was the anomaly not the norm.
Never has £750 million been spent so poorly. What do we have to show for our investment since 2014?
its not about not having spent in the past, its about the willingness to spend money to improve the teams fortunes, as clearly the current group will never be good enough to match the standards that this club should be reaching.
This 'long term project', one or two signings a season and a manager that isn't going to demand more is utopia for the glazers. we arent behaving like a club that wants to return to the top table of european football.
What is your point here? We are not discussing Gill or anyone who worked here before him we are talking about Woodward, Judge and these other incompetent clowns who have made us go from champions to a club who keeps finishing 5th and 6th. And what exactly is your point about Glazer ownership era being our most succesful are you trying to make it out as if it was because of them and not Sir Alex?
For a decade? We have spent some of our own money since 2014. Not even close to enough mind you. We've spent about 400m net in that time. Remember: we didn't spend anything on the team between 2009 and 2013. Only in 2013 when it was clear we had about 7 virtually retired first teamers did we spend what's required. But one could argue the only year in which we spent enough is 2016 when we finally spent on Pogba. That year we spent 37% of our net revenue on players. In the past 10 years City has continually spent 60 to 140% of their net revenue on players. We used to be able to do the same. This is what's needed to win leagues now. Liverpool have started spending as well and even Spurs are making good additions. We cannot left behind.
The point is that he hasn't got the previous experience so shouldn't be CEO of Man United, nor had Gill... Whats your point in saying that? It's invalid.
He hired LVG & Jose, arguably the 2 best candidates at the time of recruiting a manager. The supporters by an large wanted Jose. They sang his name at matches with LVG sat in the dug out now have decided it was a mistake, like children crying for a certain toy out of reach of their parent and given it only to then throw said toy out of the pram once received.
A club is successful because it generally is ran well from all sections, isn't that the line often rolled out in praise of City and Liverpool currently?
Losing Ferguson was also going to deliver a dip in terms of success, he was at the club 3 decades and the club didn't move with the times as he was all encompassing and carried out a variety of tasks that are divided up at other clubs.
But, folks thing what Ferguson done was completely normal for the club and it shouldn't of ever dipped off at all which is just mind boggling stupid. We've never had success like Ferguson delivered in our history, not even Busby could match the level of success Ferguson gave us.
The PL is more competitive now than it has ever been but none of these sentiments are considered at all.
but your not defending woodward, right?
Strawmaning and whataboutisms. The fact you cant escape is that woodward has overseen the club as it has gone from champions to sixth/seventh place holders. When jose took us to second he should have been backed no matter what ridiculous thing he wanted so we could push on. Instead, woodward said no, and here we are again in sixth. Theres no plan. Theres just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. We are now into our seventh year, and its not getting any better. Once again we were supposed to have our business done early in order to get the team to start working together during pre season. Once again thats not happened. "But thats not his job" But it is his job to hire competent people to do that job. How many failures does it take before the CEO pulls his finger out?
The buck starts, and stops with him. And no amount of buts, scarecrows, and look over theres are going to change that.
We've only been outspent by City in the league and in terms of Europe, PSG.
We've routinely out spent Liverpool in the post Fergie years, what on earth are you on about!
Does the buck stop with Levy for Spurs not winning trophies?
Does it stop with Arsenal CEO?
Does it stop with any of the other clubs CEO's?
Why just ours? We do like to be special don't we.
Agreed, Woodward backed Jose because it was meant to be a statement signing in his first window, otherwise Jose wouldn't have signed for United without assurances that money will be available. Since then, he has not been backed.
Ofcourse it his job to hire the correct people, how can some people actually say oh he done well by hiring Jose and Van Gaal. Jose was fan favourite at the time so he got appointed.
Incompetence is failure to plan ahead, failure to deliver on what you have promised the fans. Ed Woodward has been nothing but incompetent when it comes to the footballing aspect of Manutd.
First of all there is a vast difference between "a dip in sucess" And failing to finish within CL qualification spots 4/6 years. Second of all it sounds like you are trying to give credit there to Sir Woodward for hiring Jose but completely ignore the fact that him and the Glazer's were the sole purpose Mourinho decided to tank a season. I have yet to see you call him out for his wrong doings and ineptitude but constantly see you repeating yourself like a parrot in some weird way I interpret as you trying to defend him from people who have lost their patience with him and Glazer's bs.
I have been defending him through the post as the previous poster suggested our squad is entirely his fault but thanks for the updated info.
Would ya ever stop with the "sole reason" he tanked the season.
He was beginning to fail at the back end of the season prior but folks like you have short term memories and love to revise history.
What about the Sevilla display? His post match meltdown? Openly admitting he can't motivate players. Losing the FA Cup final? Then publicly telling supporters not to attend matches?
Yeah wonderful narrative there mate, but it's complete nonsense to put it politely.
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