Europe Refugee Crisis

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Scarecrow, Sep 5, 2015.

  1. Sep 5, 2015
    #1

    Scarecrow Having a week off

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    Surprised there isn't a thread about this.

    We're seeing the largest numbers of refugees on the move since the aftermath of World War Two.
    More than 350 000 have entered Europe in 2015. Syrians make up the lion's share of those, although there are people coming in from Nigeria, Afghanistan, Eritrea, Somalia and others. An estimated 3000 are coming in every day.
    Most are heading towards Germany which might need to accept more than 800 000 refugees by the end of the year.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32395181

    What do we make of this people? How does this get resolved?
  2. Sep 5, 2015
    #2

    JustAFan The Adebayo Akinfenwa of football photoshoppers

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  3. Sep 5, 2015
    #3

    VorZakone What would Kenny G do?

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    Prepare for a rise in crime rates. It's naive to think all of the refugees are innocent people who fled because of the military conflicts.
  4. Sep 5, 2015
    #4

    Nobby style Full Member

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    Yeah, horrendous situation. Here´s a Syrian refugee camp in Jordan, who despite their 6 million have taken in like a million and a half Syrians fleeing from the war. And I guess the UN is running out of money to fund the camps. You can only imagine the breeding grounds for nefarious, radical activities these places are spawning. Again, the USA should be at the forefront of humanitarian activity. That idiotic invasion of Iraq has really kicked things off, with the creation of ISIS being a component. A high profile, serious humanitarian effort by the Americans could at least be something positive to revive their massively damaged reputation. And it´d be a lot cheaper than the endless donkey war policy they´ve been pursuing.

    [​IMG]
  5. Sep 5, 2015
    #5

    Scarecrow Having a week off

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  6. Sep 5, 2015
    #6

    Arruda Love is in the air, everywhere I look around

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    I too, the first time I saw it :lol:

    Anyway it was created in a UK-centred frame, I think this is an issue worth discussing in a more widespread context.
  7. Sep 5, 2015
    #7

    rednev There is non worthy of worship except God

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    :lol:
  8. Sep 5, 2015
    #8

    Penna Kind Moderator (with a bit of a mean streak) Staff

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    Here's a lovely story about two British women spending their holiday helping refugees.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-34163070
  9. Sep 5, 2015
    #9

    holyland red "Holier-than-thou fundamentalist"

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    Doesn't the US pretty much fund the UN anyway?
  10. Sep 5, 2015
    #10

    mu77 Banned

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    22% - japan next at 11% , germany 7%
  11. Sep 5, 2015
    #11

    holyland red "Holier-than-thou fundamentalist"

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    I suppose that the US does give its fair share in humanitarian aid then.
  12. Sep 5, 2015
    #12

    mu77 Banned

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    much more is privately donated via the red cross and other organizations. the US also spends more on defense than the next ten nations combined. so make of that what you will.
  13. Sep 6, 2015
    #13

    marukomu The Gatekeeper

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    America has loads of space. They should make a small Syria in Arizona. They could pay for it with all the oil they have taken from their invasions on the middle east.
  14. Sep 6, 2015
    #14

    Kakeru Banned

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    While we are in this topic, take a look at this:

    Muslim countries refuse to take a single Syrian refugee, cite risk of exposure to terrorism

    Before rightfully asking Europe and North America to do a little more to help the refugees, someone better force those pathetic and yet rich governments in the Gulf area to do their physical share of the job too. I have a very hard time understanding how those particular countries dare to say the Western world should do everything to host those refugees when proximity demands those countries to do a hell lot better in accepting Syrian refugees. I don't give a feck about how much money they pledge to the refugees; it's a new homeland that they need, not money.
  15. Sep 6, 2015
    #15

    antihenry CAF GRU Rep

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    That's not the worst of it, either. Think how many terrorists, posing as refugees, are getting into EU.
  16. Sep 6, 2015
    #16

    antihenry CAF GRU Rep

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    It doesn't. It's going to get gradually worse and worse until a certain point in the future when the EU will have to drastically change their views on refugees and how to deal with them.
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2015
  17. Sep 6, 2015
    #17

    foolsgold Full Member

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    Sure the war in Syria is crap. There is no alternative to back Assad now at this stage.

    As for the migrants (I don't use the word refugee, because they largely aren't) heading up through the Balkans, they aren't fleeing war, they are fleeing the lack of economic opportunity in the refugee camps. People drowning off Greek islands aren't fleeing war, they are queue jumpers fleeing poverty.

    Frankly I'd build a huge wall and admit not a one of them.
  18. Sep 6, 2015
    #18

    holyland red "Holier-than-thou fundamentalist"

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    I think those who are going the get the worst out of this inevitable outcome are people who have already immigrated to Europe prior to this mass wave we're seeing now. Merkel is playing with fire here.
  19. Sep 6, 2015
    #19

    holyland red "Holier-than-thou fundamentalist"

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    Harsh. Some have families in Europe. Others are fleeing war zones.
  20. Sep 6, 2015
    #20

    The Law of Denis Full Member

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    How do you know this? What are your sources? That's a giant and extremely dangerous assumption you are making. Should one only be a refugee if you are not in some sort of camp?
  21. Sep 6, 2015
    #21

    foolsgold Full Member

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    Harsh, yes, doesn't make it untrue. Having family somewhere doesn't give you right to residence.

    Europe has no borders with any war zones, people fleeing war zones get there first. They then attempt to leave these safe countries to go somewhere to earn cash. I don't really criticise that, I'd probably do the same, but I'm self aware enough to recognise that I'd be an illegal economic migrant who is queue jumping.

    Looking at the pictures, it's not not really families, it's predominantly working age young men.

    I'd reject them all, by armed force if required. The Hungarians are correct.
  22. Sep 6, 2015
    #22

    foolsgold Full Member

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    Look at a map, to leave the syrian war zone, you first pass through other safe countries. At that point they are no longer refugees, they are economic migrants. Why do you think they are so keen to leave greece and the balkans for Germany ? Do they have a well founded fear of persecution in greece or budapest? no, they are heading north for cash.
  23. Sep 6, 2015
    #23

    holyland red "Holier-than-thou fundamentalist"

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    I'm not totally disagreeing here, but what if Europeans of ME origin have relatives who are fleeing violence appeal for granting them asylum? Would they be treated differently than "white", Christian Europeans doing the same?
  24. Sep 6, 2015
    #24

    The Law of Denis Full Member

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    Legally you are not correct. And you have mixed up definitions.

    All those people who we hear about who are travelling, they are not refugees. They are asylum seekers, who are hoping to be classified as refugees. So you want to stop asylum seekers which is a whole different issue.

    All those people coming to Germany, for example, have to go through a process, usually six months of evaluation, to be considered a refugee.

    What you are arguing for is that you must seek asylum in the initial country that you cross into. This is by far what is happening mostly, the majority of asylum seekers/refugees are actually in neighbouring countries; with Jordan and Lebanon taking around a million each and Turkey taking around 2 million.

    Many of the neighbouring countries are at capacity and can not handle more people (the stupidity of the gulf countries aside). What is exactly wrong with European countries looking to help and take in asylum seekers for evaluation? If Germany and Angela Merkel gives a positive reaction to asylum seekers, do you think it is really that stupid of them to want to Germany instead of staying in Greece or Hungary? Both countries which are much more negative towards them?

    If you do not trust European countries to make proper evaluations for who should be granted refugee status that is a different issue.
  25. Sep 6, 2015
    #25

    sun_tzu The Art of Bore

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    Wouldn't they then be able to cross into the next European country and claim asylum as a refugee as they were fleeing the armed forces you had sent after them?
  26. Sep 6, 2015
    #26

    marukomu The Gatekeeper

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    [​IMG]
  27. Sep 6, 2015
    #27

    holyland red "Holier-than-thou fundamentalist"

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    Why don't Europe take in people who have already been evaluated in Turkish/Jordanian refugee camps then? That would surely save the lives of those who take those journeys at sea to their promised German land.

    As things appear to work right now what would Europe do with the masses who don't qualify as refugees following evaluation. Can you see Europe deporting 100000s people back to the ME, Afghanistan and Africa in 6 months time?
  28. Sep 6, 2015
    #28

    Don't Kill Bill Full Member

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    So your point here is that Jordan has been over run by Syrians fleeing their civil war so other countries should be as well. Is this what you expect Dover to look like and I am guessing Jordanians aren't that happy about it all either?
  29. Sep 6, 2015
    #29

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

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    It is an absolute bodge job by Merkel. All she has done is encouraged those wealthy enough pay for passage to take their lives, and yes, their children's lives, to make a mad scramble for Europe.

    Genuine refugees should be granted citizenship in Europe IMO and I do believe that the UK should take the 18k suggested. That said, I think Cameron's policy of only taking refugees from UN refugee camps is the correct one and he showed good judgement in that regard, among the hysteria created by Merkel's poor judgement.

    Germany is a fairly homogenous country and a very white\European one. It will be interesting to see what effect mass immigration in such a short space of time will have on the country politically and socially.

    This and previous recent events within the EU has made me Eurosceptic for the first time in my life. It is one thing having to deal with the incompetence of our own politicians but then to be at the mercy of the incompetence of the defacto president of Europe is starting to feel unappealing.
  30. Sep 6, 2015
    #30

    The Law of Denis Full Member

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    The questions you ask go to the crux of the matter. I agree with you a lot.

    The leaders in Europe are dithering on coming up with a proper solution to dealing with distribution and care of refugees, but that does not mean that we should fault asylum seekers for attempting to work within their broken system.
  31. Sep 6, 2015
    #31

    VorZakone What would Kenny G do?

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    Not necessarily about the refugees but a Syrian friend told me that Assad is not as bad as the media makes it appear. He has his shortcomings but he was not necessarily bad for Syria and the rebels were more evil he said.
  32. Sep 6, 2015
    #32

    holyland red "Holier-than-thou fundamentalist"

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    Absolute madness, in my opinion. First you let security services work 24/7 on tracking a few hundred feckwits who have disappeared from Europe to join ISIS adventures and then you have people flooding in from the same warzones, for whom you have absolutely zero information on.
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2015
  33. Sep 6, 2015
    #33

    foolsgold Full Member

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    Iraqi friends of mine say the same about Saddam
  34. Sep 6, 2015
    #34

    antihenry CAF GRU Rep

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    That's from two months ago.

    Robert Fico: "We're not responsible for Libya, Iraq and Syria."

    http://www.dailystormer.com/slovak-pm-we-are-not-responsible-for-libya-iraq-and-syria/

    The Slovak Republic bears no responsibility for the current situation in Libya, Iraq and Syria, and that is why nobody could force us to accept mandatory migrant quotas. Prime Minister Robert Fico said that in the Slovak parliament on Thursday.

    “What has Slovakia in common with what had happened in Libya, Iraq or Syria? Absolutely nothing. Have we bombed Libya? Have we liquidated the regime in Iraq? Did we destabilize the situation in Syria? Do we have any relation to these territories? We bear no responsibility for the current situation of these countries. We cannot thus accept somebody making us to take care of people”, said Fico.
  35. Sep 6, 2015
    #35

    Don't Kill Bill Full Member

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    Tough shit once you join the EU Germany tells you you will and won't do.
  36. Sep 6, 2015
    #36

    Shamwow listens to shit music & watches Mrs Brown's Boys

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    I think all the people who want live in the UK (and Europe) should be forced to make the same gruelling journey whether they were born here or not... Call it a rite of passage to decide who really wants to live here.

    See how patriotic all the arseholes who want to preserve at any cost, the luxury life they did nothing to deserve, actually are.
  37. Sep 6, 2015
    #37

    VorZakone What would Kenny G do?

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    Now with Saddam gone all hell broke loose in Iraq, no signs of implemented 'democracy' at all there.
  38. Sep 6, 2015
    #38

    antihenry CAF GRU Rep

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    If current trend continues, Merkel will have to re-think her approach, too. Accommodating a few thousand people here and there is not a big deal, but it looks like this is just a tip of the iceberg. I have no idea how the EU plans to handle hundreds of thosands of those that will definitely follow.
  39. Sep 6, 2015
    #39

    botond Full Member

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    i cannot understand why germany is not learning from the swedish mistakes .the cultural differences are to big and the middle eastern are not looking to assimilate and take up the european values . they stay strong to their believes and what to force it on their surroundings
  40. Sep 6, 2015
    #40

    Q80 Full Member

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    Well lets start with a few points here, seeing as im from one of those pathetic yet rich countries of the gulf:

    1. Maybe, just maybe, if the west stops meddling about in middle eastern politics (some western countries have a bachelors degree in meddling in this side of the world). Foreign policy, all that bullshit media feeds you and you so willingly digest, is destroying countries in this side of the world. Now the west is shoving responsibility on the gulf states for shit they're responsible for causing in the first place? Yes, gulf countries should do more, but countries involved in starting up this shit-storm shouldnt side step their own roles in this. You reap what you sow mate.

    2. Kuwait has donated the most between all the oil rich gulf states, be it money, food and shelter construction. This is not a new trend, we donated $8 billion to Egypt, $300 million to Nigeria, and God knows how much else to Syria within 2015 alone.

    3. Regarding shelter: Texas alone is 20 times the size of Kuwait. Our population is roughly 3.2 million. 1.3 million being Kuwaiti, and the rest are expats. If we were to accept a fraction of the amount that Germany is accepting, that would still equate to a massive percentage in population shift, which would further destabilize our country. Expats already outnumber the locals AS IT STANDS.

    4. "The fine distinctions of politics and faith, which are often invisible to Westerners, matter in the Middle East. They produce wars that are as devastating as they are difficult for outsiders to comprehend.

    It's not important that Syrians don't feel welcome in Saudi Arabia and the other petro-states, and therefore don't want to go there. If Europe devises a workable quota system for refugees, many will end up in countries where they had never contemplated living, like Bulgaria or Lithuania. It does, however, make sense that they don't end up in countries where their presence could turn an unsteady equilibrium into chaos." Taken from an article recently published.

    5. Europe and the USA are simply better equipped to handle these situations - fact. We arent, for many reasons. After the gulf war (thanks west for starting and ending that one) Kuwait hasnt gone back to its glory days pre-war, the infrastructure hasnt been upgraded and even though life is "easier" here, its highly impractical and inefficient in its current state of populace. Add to that asylum seekers in droves? The country would collapse, and thats not exaggeration. Riots WILL break out.

    You accepting the points or not are simply not on my list of priorities, i dont know how much you know about this side of the world besides going to Dubai for a night out and a few drinks, but we are different creatures over here. The sooner the west realises that, the less problems we will have in the future. (i.e Iraq, Iran, Syria, Afghanistan etc.. the list goes on)