Evra accuses Suarez of racist remarks | Suarez guilty of racial abuse

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Feeky Magee, Oct 15, 2011.

  1. Feb 14, 2012

    gerrydaly Praying to have a guy on top of him

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,865
    Location:
    Lancashire
    Or even prepare and research before talking about the 'race card' claims and that Evra has racially abused someone before.
  2. Feb 14, 2012

    Dobba Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2006
    Messages:
    10,153
    Location:
    "You and your paper can fuck off."
    Kenny? Nurse! We need more Special Brew.
  3. Feb 14, 2012

    Red Dreams Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2003
    Messages:
    33,276
    Location:
    Across the Universe....from Old Trafford.
    :eek:
  4. Feb 14, 2012

    EricaNo7 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
    Messages:
    22,841
    Location:
    more right wing than andrei kanchelskis
    Heehee . That must be the reason they've not read it, but you'd think one person in Liverpool must be able to read? They teach it in prison, right? :)
  5. Feb 14, 2012

    gerrydaly Praying to have a guy on top of him

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,865
    Location:
    Lancashire
    I know. Sorry.:(
  6. Feb 14, 2012

    Red Dreams Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2003
    Messages:
    33,276
    Location:
    Across the Universe....from Old Trafford.
    well that is plausible...as the American owners have told him not to rant anymore.
  7. Feb 14, 2012

    kietotheworld Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2006
    Messages:
    12,641
    Didn't happen, Phelan claimed to have heard the groundsman calling him a fecking immigrant, Evra didn't hear it, if it was ever said.
  8. Feb 14, 2012

    Feedingseagulls Full Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2004
    Messages:
    11,379
    Location:
    Beyond Good & Evil
    Scousers swallow anti-Utd lies as eagerly as they do KKK's come.
  9. Feb 14, 2012

    Greg Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,380
    Well at the risk of sounding patronising, there was a little coverage about the case in the media.

    Doesn't really matter how old I am, it's not really relevant.
  10. Feb 14, 2012

    Redlambs Creator of the Caftards comics

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2006
    Messages:
    25,679
    Location:
    Officially the best poker player on RAWK. Your cas
    Thing is, we were lead to believe we had some reasonable, semi-intelligent scousers on here, yet all have crumbled under the most basic reasoning.

    It's not even mildly challenging to lead them to say exactly what you want before mocking them.

    Bring back Davo I say!
  11. Feb 14, 2012

    EricaNo7 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
    Messages:
    22,841
    Location:
    more right wing than andrei kanchelskis
    And tin foil.
  12. Feb 14, 2012

    Red Dreams Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2003
    Messages:
    33,276
    Location:
    Across the Universe....from Old Trafford.
    bellow the belt that.

    they must be able to read to complete those unemplyment forms....


    or do they have people there to help them with that too.
  13. Feb 14, 2012

    ArmchairCritic You got pets me too mines are dead

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    11,841
    :lol:

    There was ample coverage for those who wanted the insight into how the FA came to their decision.
  14. Feb 14, 2012

    Donkey's Ears Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2004
    Messages:
    1,647
    It is relevant in terms of trying to work out how much we should blame on age and how much on genetics.
  15. Feb 14, 2012

    Kraftwerker Formerly RedAddict

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    10,797
    Location:
    We can't stop here. This is bat country.
    So much wrong in this abomination of a post.

    Evra has never made race accusations against anyone before this incident. This is a smear orchestrated by Liverpool fans, designed to discredit him. You show yourself up as ignorant and misinformed by spreading it.

    Evra has never racially abused an opponent. If you can't understand the context of a tongue-in-cheek internet video, clearly meant in jest, and racially abusing an opponent during an on-pitch argument, then you're not worth anyone's time.

    The phrase Evra is alleged to have to Suarez translates literally as 'your sister's pussy' but is rarely understood this way. It is understood as an exclamation similar to 'fecking hell' and was understood as so by Suarez who didn't admit any offence during the tribunal. Even if he did decide to suddenly take the literal meaning, he doesn't even have a sister!

    And how the hell is Evra not a victim when he was racially abused? Is it ok to racially abuse people because you don't like them personally? When people tag Liverpool fans as racism apologists, it's unfair, but people like you don't do much to dispel it.
  16. Feb 14, 2012

    EricaNo7 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
    Messages:
    22,841
    Location:
    more right wing than andrei kanchelskis
    Seems like your IQ is also your age
  17. Feb 14, 2012

    Greg Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,380
    Sorry, just read up on that, so i'll take that back.
  18. Feb 14, 2012

    Redlambs Creator of the Caftards comics

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2006
    Messages:
    25,679
    Location:
    Officially the best poker player on RAWK. Your cas
    Oh dear :(

    I think you need to both read up on what patronising means, then read what the coverage in the media said. I'm assuming you know what the word 'read' means though right?

    As for the age thing, I'm just making sure you are safe to be on this site as there is an age limit.
  19. Feb 14, 2012

    Skywarden Full Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    7,217
    May I ask why you did not do it before you posted?
  20. Feb 14, 2012

    Redlambs Creator of the Caftards comics

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2006
    Messages:
    25,679
    Location:
    Officially the best poker player on RAWK. Your cas
    Care to try again? Or will you read up on the next one first?
  21. Feb 14, 2012

    Greg Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,380
    31 so clearly not.

    My IQ's way higher, like, well into the 50's.
  22. Feb 14, 2012

    Liam147 On Probation

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    16,719
    Location:
    Not a complete cock, just really young.
    Because like most of the idiots who spout this kind of bullshit, you know the ones, them sharing the poster on facebook, will only read up on something once they think they've been proven wrong, in an attempt to prove themselves right, only to be left disappointed. Why let silly things like facts get in the way of a good rant?
  23. Feb 14, 2012

    Redlambs Creator of the Caftards comics

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2006
    Messages:
    25,679
    Location:
    Officially the best poker player on RAWK. Your cas
    :lol: nice reply, there's hope for you on here yet! Now you just need to relax and actually read up on the stuff about Evra and see what's fact and fiction and we may get somewhere ;)
  24. Feb 14, 2012

    Greg Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,380
    No, it was all used in the correct context.
  25. Feb 14, 2012

    gooDevil Worst scout ever

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2008
    Messages:
    21,633
    Location:
    The Kids are the Future
    You guys shouldn't waste your time arguing with someone as stupid as 'Greg'.
  26. Feb 14, 2012

    EricaNo7 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
    Messages:
    22,841
    Location:
    more right wing than andrei kanchelskis
    He does a nice sausage roll though
  27. Feb 14, 2012

    Redlambs Creator of the Caftards comics

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2006
    Messages:
    25,679
    Location:
    Officially the best poker player on RAWK. Your cas
    Aww it's only a little fun!

    Besides, he's already found out for himself one huge myth about Evra isn't true, just imagine what else he can learn!
  28. Feb 14, 2012

    gerrydaly Praying to have a guy on top of him

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,865
    Location:
    Lancashire
    I'm sure Greg was joking all along. Or he'd only had chance to read Liverpool's statement of December 20:


    It is also our opinion that the accusation by this particular player was not credible - certainly no more credible than his prior unfounded accusations.
  29. Feb 14, 2012

    Feedingseagulls Full Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2004
    Messages:
    11,379
    Location:
    Beyond Good & Evil
    I would need to re-read the relevant sections to be sure - but it seemed to me on later reflection that there is some interesting cross-confirming evidence in there...

    Evra reports Suarez as using an unusual form of the 2nd-person pronoun - one which had comment upon it at the hearing and after it. The more usual way of saying 'you' was different to what Evra remembered - but his version, whilst more unusual, was stated to be possible. Obviously the verb was conjugated appropriately.

    In the original Comolli report in the ref's room he used the same 'unusual' form of expressing the meaning to recount what was actually said by Suarez. He also, independently, confirmed the overall sentence to effectively translate as 'Because you are black' - at that time. That 'overall meaning' was the same that Kuyt originally reported from his conversation with Suarez in Dutch. (Obviously they were asked to change their stories later).

    That the original versions were correct (and Suarez was lying when he later changed it) was confirmed not just by the fact that the 2 separate conversations in different languages had produced the same version of the account Suarez gave - and also by it matching Evra's testimony - but also by the fact that both Comolli and Evra gave the same 'unusual' usage as the spanish spoken by Suarez.

    Evra, Comolli, and Kuyt all confirm both what was said, and (2 out of 3) how it was said. Yet scousers reckon the panel had no reason to disbelieve Suarez's modified account.

    ...

    Then there's the 'conciliatory pinching' (which counsel had to retract) - Kuyt's fictional account of what Evra had said to the ref (it didn't match the accounts given by Evra and the ref - which dovetailed), etc, etc.

    Wonder if Greggy can manage to read that? If he's still peddling the 'previous' line he hasn't followed much of the discussion here tbh.
  30. Feb 14, 2012

    Plechazunga Grammar partisan who sleeps with a real life Ryan

    Joined:
    May 5, 2003
    Messages:
    51,762
    Location:
    Where Albert Stubbins scored a diving header
    As I said in the RAWK thread, a mate of mine who's a city lawyer (he's a Sheffield United fan and has no dog in this fight) read the whole report out of legal interest.

    He said the thing that came across most strongly was what an absolute shambles Liverpool's legal preparation was.

    He also said that with the conflicting evidence, retractions and contradictions, the panel had absolutely no choice but to conclude that Suarez was lying, and that it was pretty apparent that the club was lying too.

    Evra may not have been the perfect witness but the disparity was huge. In a case where it's to a large extent one person's word against the other, your general impression of trustworthiness or un- has a massive effect on the outcome.
  31. Feb 14, 2012

    Greg Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,380
    No way, i don't want to read anything that may prejudice my views on Evra - imagine if I read something good about him.

    Ignorance is bliss.
  32. Feb 14, 2012

    Feedingseagulls Full Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2004
    Messages:
    11,379
    Location:
    Beyond Good & Evil
    What I liked about that convergence of testimonies though was the way that it meant at least one piece of the picture really did not have to rely much on Evra being trustworthy and his account matching the video, compared to Suarez changing his mind and testifying completely against the recorded events.

    Those converging accounts, and the way an unusual verbal usage was confirmed by two completely independent witmnesses, make a compelling case for that being the truth.
  33. Feb 14, 2012

    Greg Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,380
    Truest thing written on here today :)
  34. Feb 14, 2012

    MiamiSpartan Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2008
    Messages:
    850
    Location:
    Miami, FL, USA
    Good job on all points. The other big difference that is lost on LFC fans and the fans of that after those incidents, the players didn't exacerbate the issues. Cantona didn't come back only to go spit on a fan in his first start after the suspension. Keane didn't kick Haaland in the balls the next time they saw each other (tbf, I'm not sure if they ever saw each other again). Rio didn't celebrate the end of his suspension by lighting up a bong on TV. Rooney and Giggs may have had more affairs (we don't know for sure), but they has feck all to do with football.

    Fergie's comments were not a result of Suarez blanking Evra, but rather a combination of the racial slur AND the refusal to shake hands, as well as his other behavior regarding this in the last few months.
  35. Feb 14, 2012

    AlwaysRedwood Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    8,032
    Location:
    LA
    You spouted a trainload of lies and bullshit, maybe if you had some knowledge you wouldn't look so ridiculous now and people wouldn't be asking your age.
  36. Feb 14, 2012

    Plechazunga Grammar partisan who sleeps with a real life Ryan

    Joined:
    May 5, 2003
    Messages:
    51,762
    Location:
    Where Albert Stubbins scored a diving header
    Agreed, that does seem very solid.

    More broadly, it's been amazing to watch Liverpool's fans throw themselves into the essentially religious process of selectively reading the document to support a predetermined conclusion. I never associated their bonkers fans before with the decline of the club, but now I suspect the two are part of the same dynamic. It's as if the club itself has been swallowed up by the paranoid, cult-like mentality of its fans.

    The gap between our clubs in terms of basic professionalism is much greater than the gap in footballing terms... and that's 19 points, in mid-February.
  37. Feb 14, 2012

    Greg Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,380
    Oh, it was a shambles, no one will argue with that.

    And while Suarez let Liverpool down on Saturday, Liverpool let him down by putting forward a poor, unorganised defence - we'd have been better off sending Reina, Johnson, Enrique, Agger and Skrtel - a much better defence - BOOM - sorry!

    Seriously, if you're going to defend a man, so vehemently back him then provide him with the best legal team you can find.

    Liverpool have dealt with it shambolically, I've winced at some things they've said and done, and agreed with one or two others things. All Liverpool fans I've discussed it with feel the same, but regardless, they're my team, I'll back them all the way....especially where Man Utd are involved.

    It's what football fans all do best.
  38. Feb 14, 2012

    gooDevil Worst scout ever

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2008
    Messages:
    21,633
    Location:
    The Kids are the Future
    Fair enough, it makes me cringe and hurts my heart to see such misinformed ignorance.

    I guess my retirement plan of being a teacher isn't gonna work.
  39. Feb 14, 2012

    Plechazunga Grammar partisan who sleeps with a real life Ryan

    Joined:
    May 5, 2003
    Messages:
    51,762
    Location:
    Where Albert Stubbins scored a diving header
    In football matters that's as it should be. But racial abuse is a more serious thing, and even though Suarez was innocent until proved guilty, the default assumption among fans and club shouldn't have been that the charge was made up maliciously, just because it was laid by United/Evra.

    Which isn't to say Evra's not a bit of a dickhead - he clearly is. So is Suarez. The question was which of two unstable multi-millionaire twats was lying more than the other one, and pure tribalism shouldn't have provided an immediate answer.
  40. Feb 14, 2012

    noodlehair "It's like..."

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    6,224
    Location:
    Flagg
    Suarez beats Evra (and pretty much every footballer who isn't Deco) hands down in the who's the biggest twat contest, to be fair. I can't believe if he played for us that I'd be blind to this. I thought Ronaldo was a complete twat and he's a fecking hero of nobleness compared to Suarez.

    Also, I know a few Liverpool fans who have taken a sensible view from the start. I watched the game with one of them and he was branding Suarez a pathetic baby after the handshake thing.

    In fact, I don't "know" any Liverpool fans who've behaved as they've managed to portray themselves as having done so as a collective. I'm not convinced that the portrayal hasn't ended up being a bit unfair on the reality. Dickheads invariably shout louder.

Share This Page