FAO: ST Holders. We must adjust as fans.

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by VivaObertan, Feb 26, 2018.

  1. Feb 26, 2018
    #1

    VivaObertan Transfer Voyeur

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    I decided to write this thread at half-time in the freezing cold during yesterday's game. It applies to our match-going fans, more specifically our home fans.

    As fans, the people responsible for creating atmosphere within the ground and more importantly provide encouragement and support to our players, we must decide to either:

    a.) Protest against the manager because he doesn't play a way that we can get behind by refusing to turn up to games.

    b.) Forget about our style of play (and/or negative performance on the pitch) and support the team unconditionally.

    I strongly believe that b.) is the correct option as despite his methods not being the prettiest, Jose Mourinho is an extremely capable and effective manager, as shown in yesterday's game. Unfortunately, this will not be simple and will require us to re-frame our mindsets when attending games.

    Sometime last year I read a book called "The European Game: The Secrets of European Football Success" and the author touched upon cultures within football fans; it explained that 'on the continent' fans primary objective is to create an intimidating atmosphere and give support to the team to the point where watching the game, to ultras especially, can sometimes become secondary. The songs are sang irrespective of the action on the pitch and are constant throughout the 90 minutes.

    In England, however, the crowd are induced into song through situation; ie. opponents, moments within the game, scoreline etc. Unfortunately a team playing the way we did yesterday in the first half, when combined with this mentality, makes for an dour, passionless atmosphere and can negatively affect our players.

    In short, it's time we adopt a continental approach as match-going fans to support our Portuguese manager and his continental tactics. Forget what's happening on the pitch, the days of SAF and lightning football is over. We must move on and do our bit to be the extra man for our team.

    Let's Make Old Trafford Great Again.
  2. Feb 26, 2018
    #2

    aaron221295 New Member

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    Is this the action that came out of the meeting with the execs?
  3. Feb 26, 2018
    #3

    ROFLUTION Full Member

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    Except for the Trump reference in the end, I like B) and hope people does exactly that.
  4. Feb 26, 2018
    #4

    Di Maria's angel Captain of Moanchester United

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    Agreed. Growing up I loved watching our home games due to the atmosphere created. I still do but I was a little disappointed yesterday - I do understand the frustrations. But I would rather we created a cauldron like atmosphere at OT.
  5. Feb 26, 2018
    #5

    diplomat Banned

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    Glorifying the ultras ideology is very dangerous, in my opinion, as even in Western countries they show they lack any sense of decency and are generally causing public unrest (a lot but not all of them, to be fair).

    I agree the atmosphere can and should be improved, but showing nice football will help massively and I'm not sure how you can just disregard this point and say "move on, we will never play beautiful-to-the-eye football". Both the OT attending fans and Mourinho can improve on their own selves.
  6. Feb 26, 2018
    #6

    Arbitrium Supposed to be taking a year off

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    The best the fans have been the last 5 years was probably when LVG three himself down. Tells you all you need to know about modern football fans.
  7. Feb 26, 2018
    #7

    Grylte "nothing wrong with some friendly incest, bro"

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    Agree, the Trump bit at the end ruined it for me :(
  8. Feb 26, 2018
    #8

    clarkydaz Full Member

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    Win the crowd, win your freedom.
  9. Feb 26, 2018
    #9

    Cheesy Bread with dipping sauce Scout

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    Not necessarily sure it's modern fans, it's just that all-seater stadiums lend themselves to a predicament where it's much harder to generate a lot of atmosphere. Especially at a big club where it's already hard to get tickets and large groups who want to try and create a bit of atmosphere end up being unable to get seated together etc.
  10. Feb 26, 2018
    #10

    JK-27 Full Member

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    What's more important, a Utd win, or playing good football and losing?

    I attend to support Utd winning, even if it's winning ugly, but all I hear from others is complaints about who we should play, how we should play. Guess what, if you were all such football geniuses you'd be the fecking Manager, not in the stands. Support the team during the match, then rant after (as I often do), but during the game the teams needs support!
  11. Feb 26, 2018
    #11

    sunama Baghdad Bob

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    Winning is what pro sport is all about.
    I want us to win the league title. Finishing in 2nd place this season is a good start to get us competing for the title in the coming years.
  12. Feb 27, 2018
    #12

    pocco loco

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    The problem at the moment is far away from the one we previously had imo. The atmosphere is terrible compared to a few years ago when Fergie was here and, dare I say it, we were winning. We complained about the stadium then and it may have been a genuine issue, but right now its nowhere near what it once was. You can't blame the stadium for that.

    Regarding the whole stadium argument, I find it a bit wide of the mark anyway. I've been to many games at Old Trafford where the atmosphere has been red hot. That Roma game was something else, it actually felt strangely warm in the stadium that night with the energy of the crowd. The problem is, unfortunately, it's hard to motivate 80000 people to come to the game so pumped up.

    To do this regularly you need large pockets of loud supporters dotted all around the stadium to get those around them to feel comfortable making noise at most games. Being allowed to stand would be huge, but I feel there are things that can be done to help as it is.
  13. Feb 27, 2018
    #13

    VivaObertan Transfer Voyeur

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    No, just my opinion!

    Exactly! This is how I was brought up to support United. If you're unhappy, voice it after the game. DURING those 90 minutes, you support and cheer.

    So i sat in SAF49 for 20 years, now in NW Quad. I feel extremely uncomfortable singing in this section due to how quiet it is around me.

    That Roma game, Barca 08 and Madrid when Nani got sent off, OT was rocking. I really miss those days. :(
  14. Feb 27, 2018
    #14

    TMDaines Full Member

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    If you want to sing and chant, why do you buy tickets in those sections?
  15. Feb 27, 2018
    #15

    VivaObertan Transfer Voyeur

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    Didn't have the choice of where I sat, had to take what I was given.
  16. Feb 27, 2018
    #16

    TMDaines Full Member

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    What do you mean? Do you have a season ticket? You can call up and request a move after renewals.
  17. Feb 27, 2018
    #17

    Dr Fink Full Member

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    Top thread. Spot on. I admit I've been quieter this season from what has been served up on the pitch but strangely I felt different on Saturday post half time, as I thought f*ck it, it can only get better. Back singing throughout. I think this ethos should reach a wider audience than just on here, perhaps something more via United officially?

    There is an element of the crowd and the players feeding off each other, but as the crowd we really do need to up our game.

    The Roma and Real games mentioned were sensational for atmosphere. Roma: the Italians that had booked the hospitality suite behind where I was sitting in the North Stand, got so upset and were gesticulating furiously, that they were nearly dragged out in to the stands by Utd fans. Mind you there were a lot of goals going in!

    Real: the crowd were so incensed by Nani's sending off, the atmosphere went ballistic!
  18. Feb 27, 2018
    #18

    Grande Full Member

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    Not a ST at OT, so should probably SU, but ... I’ve been so in Norway with a team there reknowned for it’s (for a country with little supporter culture) great support (some Blues on here may remember the Vålerenga supporters dancing The Anal Train and doing The Double Wanker Cow Song while losing 3-0 to Chelsea at Stamford Bridge).

    What I find is that support here grew magnificently in size and enthusiasm when supporters focussed fully on what they could do to help themselves, the club and the team. Not on what the team could do (relegation fodder for years after a successful spell that noone got over, sounds familiar?), or what the club could do to make them feel welcome, appreciated etc.

    It came the other way around. Inspired by English singing crowds like Uniteds and Italian Ultras, more and more got together to make tifo effects and sing songs. At the same time they kicked out racists and people looking for trouble by internal justice mostly. They sang louder when the team was 3-0 down, focussing on the song of a left back instead of the result.

    The positive focus after a while led the ‘prawn sandwich supporters’ to enjoy them and even sing along quite often, which led the club to give them better sections.

    I believe United away supporters are famous for exactly this kind of spirit mostly, which is great to build on. MUST and the likes trying to work with the club working thise canals is very smart.

    If the kind of away support United have can align with the kind of community engagement that saw the stadium clad in green and gold (not only hard core vocal supporters, but also more ordinary fans who love the club) a few years back - in order to support the team and the club regardless of results, playing style, stadium architecture and fan politics - great things can yet happen.

    Now I’ll duly SU.
  19. Feb 27, 2018
    #19

    VivaObertan Transfer Voyeur

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    I had an ST from 1994 to 2013 and then had to give it up. Got back in this season but due to the new disabled setup there were only like 6 pairs of seats available to 'new' customers so I literally took whatever I could 1 minute after it opened. Will likely be moving next year - great view in the Quadrant but boy do you feel detached.
  20. Feb 27, 2018
    #20

    TMDaines Full Member

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    Yeah, it will be difficult to move for a few years because of the stadium reconfiguration. We were lucky in that we gambled on taking a pair at the back of the East Stand in for 2016-17 and managed to relocate to the Stretford End a few weeks later after renewals. I understand last summer that the club didn't welcome any moves.
  21. Feb 27, 2018
    #21

    londonredmaniac I suffer delusions of grandeur

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    Safe standing, a load of us all in with our pals at an affordable price. That'll bring it back .
  22. Feb 27, 2018
    #22

    noodlehair "It's like..."

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    Potential thread ruining fact: The atmosphere also used to be crap when Fergie was manager...especially when it was really fecking cold out. Not sure why the two were linked but they definitely were.

    I remember sitting in near silence along with everyone around me when we beat West Ham in 2009, spending the whole game wanting to be somewhere less cold...and we played well. Atmophere only briefly livened up when a West Ham fan in a pink shirt got ejected (possibly for wearing a pink shirt), and the whole stadium seemed to notice.
  23. Feb 27, 2018
    #23

    Fridge chutney Full Member

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    What's the reason for such a big change? Why have fans gone quiet?
  24. Feb 27, 2018
    #24

    EyeInTheSky Full Member

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    Does Your one anecdotel observation explain the other 30 odd home games when it’s not abnormally cold?
  25. Feb 27, 2018
    #25

    noodlehair "It's like..."

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    Most of the time in Manchester it's abnormally cold.
  26. Feb 27, 2018
    #26

    Red For Ever Full Member

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    When I was a Lad !!
    Listen to the background noise here, before the days of multi sensitive microphones and Prawn sandwiches
  27. Feb 28, 2018
    #27

    Revaulx Full Member

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    Depends what you’re comparing it to. You should try living on top of a hill in East Kent.

    You’re right about the atmosphere being terrible when it’s cold though, particularly on days where attendance is poor and there are gaps between the bodies. The infamous League Cup defeat to Palace a few years was a nightmare.

    The proportion of games where the atmosphere was really terrible was small though. There does seem to have been a step change deterioration this season.
  28. Feb 28, 2018
    #28

    noodlehair "It's like..."

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    I found it depended on where you were in the stadium. I'd usually be in the Stretty End at the time and people would moan about the atmosphere oon here, and I'd been thinking it was great all game.

    Worst I remember it being was under Moyes, after things had gone tits up. Misery in the pub before the game, misery in the stadium, then everyone would just politely applaud the players off at the end. Where as unde LVG it almost seemed to be defiantly angry against him at times.
  29. Feb 28, 2018
    #29

    Revaulx Full Member

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    The people round us (SAF stand; Stretty side), or at least the decreasing number of regulars, have always moaned! Ronaldo used to get the most appalling stick. Giggs too, though that may have been justified; there was a period when he looked like he wasn’t trying very hard.

    Interesting perspective re Moyes. From where I was, I couldn’t believe how loud the support for him was, and how long it lasted. The Chosen One banner seemed to become a magnet for discontent just before the end though.

    LVG seemed to engender more frustration than anger. A lot of why can’t it be like this more often at the occasional moments of genuine quality.
  30. Feb 28, 2018
    #30

    bazalini The Baz Man - He made us laugh 2000 - 2012

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    The problem with Man Utd is that it is a Working class fan base supporting a team of Multi millionaires. Gone are the days of real Man Utd mixing with players. Fans are lucky to have a successful team & players / Club is lucky to have such fans who worship them
  31. Feb 28, 2018
    #31

    NotoriousISSY $10mil and I fecked it up!

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    Many clubs in Europe have reputations for a daunting atmosphere despite not being consistently successful, or even entertaining.

    Portsmouth
    Galatasary
    Red Star Belgrade
    Legia Warsaw

    They’re not world beating teams with constant electrifying football. They’re just loyal, hardcore fans who go and create an atmosphere no matter what.

    Side note, the video of the stadium announcer shouting Gonzalo, with the fans rebutting HIGUAIN for Napoli gives me goosebumps. Such a simple and small tradition, but such big impact.

    Alan Keegan has been at OT since 2000? I absolutely hate his voice, and the constant “old Trafford, home of the greatest club in the world”, “old Trafford the theatre of dreams”. It’s tiresome and absolutely soul destroying to come out with that jargon 58 times on Matchday.
  32. Feb 28, 2018
    #32

    VeevaVee despite the protests, wears Ugg boots

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    This is all that's needed.