1. We are delighted to have been nominated for Best Forum in The Football Blogging Awards. You can vote for us on their website here and via twitter here. You can read the caf thread here. Thanks to anyone who votes for us.
    Dismiss Notice

Fergie’s role in our current plight

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by 2cents, Apr 17, 2019 at 14:04.

  1. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:04
    #1

    2cents Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2008
    Messages:
    9,086
    Probably not gonna be a popular topic on here, but I’m wondering how to assess Fergie’s role in our predicament? I don’t want to shit on his legacy, which is obviously ultimately defined by the bulging trophy cabinet and our re-emergence as a major domestic and European power, but I’d be interested to hear honest takes on how some of his decisions might have contributed to our decline. I always remember his assurances that the club wouldn’t repeat the mistakes of the post-Busby years once he’d gone and that a smooth transition was the number one priority. Yet here we are.
  2. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:06
    #2

    .Rossi ever get that feeling of déjà vu?

    Joined:
    May 26, 2012
    Messages:
    18,000
    Location:
    Currently on trial for plagiarism
    :D

    Sorry, couldn't resist :D
  3. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:07
    #3

    ArjenIsM3 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2015
    Messages:
    785
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Sigh, not this again..
  4. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:07
    #4

    el3mel Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    Messages:
    24,507
    Location:
    Egypt
    Not much.

    Fergie can be blamed for the team he left for Moyes but that's about it. 6-7 years later and we are still using players from his last season, it's simply our fault we were unable to make a rebuild.

    Another club and we would have had an entire different squad now than what he had left, but for United we are still entering 6th season post SAF playing against Barca with a defense having Jones, Smalling and Young.

    The board is the ultimate reason for our failure.
  5. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:08
    #5

    Denis79 Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2014
    Messages:
    2,516
    Point the finger at the people running the club.
  6. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:08
    #6

    Harry Harries Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Messages:
    3,177
    MAMA MIA, THAT'S A SPICY MEATBALL!
  7. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:09
    #7

    Tarrou Full Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2013
    Messages:
    13,047
    Location:
    Toronto
    It's his fault people believed the Glazers are great owners - but I don't blame him for it
  8. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:09
    #8

    Nico87 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2018
    Messages:
    225
    Location:
    Manchester
    I'd say very minor, his only real mistake was letting the midfield rot yo the extent he did which was partly due to his sentimental attachment to certain players. He should have introduced Pogba to the team much ealrier and also been a little more flexible with the role agents now played and the fee's they could charge.

    The flaws with the transition are entirely Moyes and the boards doing, once they realised Moyes had no intention of keeping any of the back room staff he should have been removed from consideration.
  9. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:10
    #9

    Jim Beam Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Messages:
    5,524
    Location:
    Bat Country
    :lol:
  10. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:11
    #10

    Rhyme Animal Modmins said "freeze" and I got numb

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2015
    Messages:
    3,812
    Location:
    Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
    SAF left us in a perfect position to continue success...

    But he can't pick managers - and shouldn't be doing so.
  11. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:12
    #11

    Stepney73 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    178
    The glazers takeover of the club is the root of our problems.

    Obviously it didn't go all to shit the day after they took over but within a decade we became a second tier club.

    The pivotal point for me was trousering the ronaldo money and then just spending the minimum of what they think they needed to keep the cash cow milkable.
  12. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:12
    #12

    Shark @NotShark

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Messages:
    19,469
    Location:
    Ireland


    This is spot on, and should wrap up the thread in all honesty.
  13. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:13
    #13

    Bojan11 Full Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2010
    Messages:
    24,823
    He let the defence rot too and passed up the chance to sign Hazard due to agent fees.

    He got too sentimental in his latter years and held onto too many 30 plus players hence why our squad is a mess and their replacements aren’t good enough which isn’t his fault. But I wish he sort of signed more players like DDG in his latter years. Sadly he had blind faith in Cleverly, Welbeck, Jones and Evans.
  14. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:15
    #14

    Zlatattack Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2017
    Messages:
    3,759
    The team he left won the league. That'll always be his answer.

    How much influence he had in the handover, selection of replcements - who really knows.
  15. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:18
    #15

    Raees Legal Guardian of the Football forums

    Joined:
    May 16, 2009
    Messages:
    26,783
    It’s 2019. There’s a limit to how long he should be allowed to be seen as hindering the club post his departure and I say that as someone who wasn’t happy with the way he didn’t really plan for the future during the 08-12 period.
  16. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:18
    #16

    Zlatattack Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2017
    Messages:
    3,759
    He could have left the squad in a better state, but again, the squad he left won the league with him.
  17. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:27
    #17

    Jim Beam Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Messages:
    5,524
    Location:
    Bat Country
    He took us as a broken club (in a way) and left us as an absolute giant. Nobody, even him, could predict such incompetence from our board. I mean, more then half of our squad is still his and we bought exactly 32 players. Also, changed 4 managers, 3 playing styles and played like 2 decent games all together.

    As for the team he left, I still stand that he could easily maintain our dominance in the next 3-4 years just by buying Thiago and Herrera for example.
  18. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:33
    #18

    ATXRedDevil Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2014
    Messages:
    649
    Location:
    The Live Music Capital of the World
    Ultimately, the board screwed us by not investing properly in Fergie’s last 2-3 years. Shortly after he left, transfer values inflated significantly. An extra £50m or so in each of the last two summers Fergie was here would have bought us 2 real quality players in each window - so much more than those same sums returned for us merely a few years later.

    Hindsight is 20/20, but everyone could see we needed investment in certain areas, particularly CM, but Fergie was bringing success without it so they skimped which left us needing to splash much larger amounts in an inflated market and after our needs swelled to beyond a couple of positions. I don’t think that was Fergie’s fault. I’m sure he would have loved some better players..

    When you’re are ahead you have to keep building or risk losing your foothold on the top spot. That’s what City are doing now and why it’ll be hard for us to catch them.
  19. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:33
    #19

    Revaulx Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2014
    Messages:
    1,433
    Location:
    Saddleworth
    If we're going to go back that far to assign blame, I'd be more inclined to ask questions of Gill. He appears to have:

    1. Been complicit in (or maybe encouraged) Fergie's agent aversion and "no value in the market" thinking
    2. Made no provision for any post-Fergie transition plan
    3. Bungled his own departure by having no proper handover to Woodward
  20. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:34
    #20

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2002
    Messages:
    48,176
    He really didn't. The squad he left behind was the weakest team he had ever had. We only had 1 WC player in that team. I wouldn't really blame him on the matter (I suspect the accountant was the man behind the value strategy) but to say he left us in a perfect position to continue success is wrong.
  21. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:34
    #21

    Sylar Full Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Messages:
    22,038
    He left us with United as champions. He also had DDG entering his prime and RVP as top goalscorer. He also opened the door for us to sell Rooney and replace him whilst he was on the downward decline. He also got us Zaha ready to come in.

    And since hes left, weve spent around 750m. Thats more than enough to add to what he left behind and still be fighting for trophies on all fronts.

    His big mistake was putting Moyes up for being in charge of us. However Moyes should have been sacked around November/December.
  22. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:36
    #22

    2cents Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2008
    Messages:
    9,086
    Good point. I’ve never got the admiration people seem to have for him. If he’s to be judged by our transfer dealings, then it’s fair to consider him a complete failure from 2007 onwards.
  23. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:38
    #23

    duffer Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's Scout

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2004
    Messages:
    31,988
    Location:
    Chelsea fan.
    Do you blame the idiot for messing it up or the genius for picking the idiot?
  24. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:41
    #24

    Harry190 Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2010
    Messages:
    3,585
    Location:
    Canada
    I thought we had moved to a different stage.
    [​IMG]
  25. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:41
    #25

    Rhyme Animal Modmins said "freeze" and I got numb

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2015
    Messages:
    3,812
    Location:
    Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
    He left us Champions, with a massive war-chest, one of the richest clubs on Earth.

    DDG in goal, Zaha to come in, RvP still in great form, Rooney set up to leave and as I said - money to spend.

    The trouble is, he was then allowed to pick his own successor (what the actual feck?)...

    And he chose David fecking Moyes...
  26. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:43
    #26

    AndyJ1985 Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    8,950
    He did get player recruitment wrong during his latter years, but then again he kept on winning titles, so it's difficult to really criticise him for that. He done his job and it was for those who followed to continue the success. Everyone involved has failed, and Fergie can't be held accountable for that.
  27. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:48
    #27

    beingshe7don Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Messages:
    1,519
    So here's the thing, Fergie got out at the right time and when I say this, I mean he realized that City were becoming more than just "noisy neighbors" and that United couldn't match their ambitions. I guess that trip which Fergie took to speak with Pep in New York, I think he had that inclination that Pep would join a club that was willing to fund his ideology and that United couldn't do so. Mourinho also came back to the PL that season with Chelsea and won the title. No experienced manager in their right mind would like to take on an aging and talentless squad and manage United after Ferguson because they would not be able to match Ferguson and deliver the title with the squad at that time. More than that, David Gill left a gaping hole in terms of transfers and getting in the required players in. So there are quite a few things that went wrong. Fergie's masterclass was when he offered the managerial job to Moyes which even a blind man would have stated what a disaster that was going to be.

    Ferguson and the board are to be blamed for the United crisis right now. People keep talking about Mourinho, Pep, Pochettino, Zidane and Ancelotti but in my mind from the days of Dortmund, Klopp was the manager that should have taken hold of United. We should have offered him everything to get him here. He delivers good football and the players he's invested in, have been phenomenal. Unfortunately, it's too late to talk about that as I think he will remain with Liverpool for years to come and could become a legend at the club after winning an EPL title.

    Now that we have Ole... He's clearly not a masterclass tactician but he's a terrific man manager. When you don't have a certain skill, you either learn it or your outsource. I think he needs to bring in a master tactician to help him develop as a manager and not to mention an immediate need for a Director of Football. Paul Mitchell needs to be brought in ASAP before we squander more money foolishly on mindless contract extensions and transfers.
  28. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:49
    #28

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2002
    Messages:
    48,176
    That means jack shit really. A winner's squad needs time to build. SAF left a squad made up of a horde of mules which were decent enough to support his very old guard but were pretty average on their own. If SAF was serious in leaving a legacy that endures past him then

    a- he would have pushed for serious changes in our infrastructure. The man could live without a top DOF but the same can't be said about his successors especially if the successor in question was David Moyes
    b- he would have replaced the likes of Scholes, Giggs, Rio, Vidic and Evra long ago

    As Scholes once said. There's something really bad in a team when their best midfielders are at the wrong side of their 30s

    There again, I sometimes wonder if its SAF's fault or the club's fault. The more time passes, the more I think its the latter.
  29. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:50
    #29

    Kapardin Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    Messages:
    9,081
    Location:
    Chennai, India
    He left us an aging and bad squad. Okayed Moyes. Two big blunders the impact of which we are still feeling.

    However, any club with our resources would still be able to handle it and bounce back after perhaps one bad season. For example, look at Real, they have appointed Zidane and are looking like a sure bet to spend wisely this summer and come out of their slump. The point is, if Woodward were competent, it wouldn't take us more than one or two bad seasons at the most to come back to the top, but here we are after 6 years.
  30. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:50
    #30

    Champagne Football Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2015
    Messages:
    1,816
    Location:
    El Beatle
    David Moyes was the right choice as long as he kept Mike Phelan as his right hand man. He'd still be in charge today had he kept someone in his backroom team who could teach him how to set up a team to play nice football. If David didn't suffer from delusion of grandeur about his coaching ability then he'd still be here as he possessed the work ethic and man management skills for the role.

    Let's look on the bright side. Ajax were knocked out of the Europa League by Rosenberg last season. Ole is the right man who will play the right way and who will sign players with Utd DNA such as hopefully Rice, Sancho, Neres along with some PL experienced heads like Alderweireld, Doucoure on top of hopefully some super kids like William Saliba. While also developing Greenwood and Garner. A big summer can change it round quickly.
  31. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:51
    #31

    12OunceEpilogue Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2016
    Messages:
    7,212
    Location:
    Wigan
    Aye, and he picked Moyes. That's it.
  32. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:51
    #32

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    69,542
    Location:
    india
    Had Pep succeeded SAF we'd have won the league within a few years.

    Sir Alex did let standards drop in his latter years and obviously picked the mighty David Moyes as his successor. He could have left the team in a better shape but that should have been corrected by now by succeeding managers.
  33. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:52
    #33

    Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær Lutefisk is it!

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    72,362
    Location:
    Marcus Rashford's a Manc born and bred!
    FFS. The state of this place.
  34. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:53
    #34

    Rozay Master of Hindsight

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2012
    Messages:
    12,954
    Location:
    #SmallingPlusOne
    Judging by current views towards Woodward, anything anyone would want to hold Fergie accountable for should ultimately be directed to David Gill.
  35. Apr 17, 2019 at 14:54
    #35

    Kag Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2013
    Messages:
    14,747
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The club was a shambles when he left. We just didn’t know it yet. Ferguson was the glue holding it all together. The Glazers, Gill, Woodward and Ferguson were all complicit in this. Some more than others, of course.

    In truth, Ferguson was stuck between a rock and a hard place. We were paying stratospheric interest fees, selling our best players (right when we should have been consolidating our position at the top of Europe) and investing little into the first team. It’s at this point I remind you that we didn’t buy a central midfielders for six years. No value...

    Ferguson could either take a paddy and leave or work his magic. He managed the latter, but our football was getting gradually worse - something we all moaned about at the time - and by the time we played Barcelona in the 2011 final, there was a chasm between us.

    Ferguson left and it quickly became apparent to us (but not to close observers; they saw this years prior) that the academy was an underfunded joke, no real scouting system was in place apart from the eyes of Martin Ferguson and the administration tasks directed towards the manager were unmanageable for anybody other than Alex Ferguson.

    We were a huge club in one man’s little world. Gill conveniently fecked off for more fame and fortune at the same time and arseholes on here seem to love him for it. Woodward this, Woodward that. He’s done more to modernise this club in five years than anybody did between 2005 and 2013. That’s for certain, even in spite of the errors that have been made along the way.

    I mean, I can’t stand David Moyes, but it’s well known now that when he first arrived he enquired about the scouting assessments and players reports relating to various targets across the world. Those above looked at him like he was some sort of oddball.
  36. Apr 17, 2019 at 15:04
    #36

    Roboc7 Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2014
    Messages:
    2,700
    No blame on SAF, it was the clubs responsibility to have a plan in place for when he left, 6 years on they still haven’t got one. There is no identity and no adaption to a modern football club.

    Choosing Moyes was a huge error but he shouldn’t have been allowed to make that choice. Fergie was United, when he left everything people thought about United left with him and it exposed what it was really like behind the scenes.
  37. Apr 17, 2019 at 15:05
    #37

    Varun Moderator Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2011
    Messages:
    43,601
    Location:
    Mumbai
    Erm, how many years have to pass before he isn't judged for the ineptness of those who succeeded him? We're still using his defenders ffs, that should say everything about the stellar job people have done after he left.
  38. Apr 17, 2019 at 15:07
    #38

    Ban Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2015
    Messages:
    21,423
    Location:
    Zagreb, HR
    Again this. After 6 years.. :lol:
  39. Apr 17, 2019 at 15:07
    #39

    Vidyoyo Self-confessed coffee shop chat-up expert

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Messages:
    1,910
    It's getting silly now.
  40. Apr 17, 2019 at 15:10
    #40

    Zlatattack Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2017
    Messages:
    3,759
    What utter tosh. He won the league with the same "mules" the season he left. He won it by 11 points. Everyone else didn't suddenly become wank. He beat the best the league had to offer as he did time and time again. We went out in the CL to a poor refereeing decision against Real Madrid.

    Had he stayed on, he'd have won the league next season too.