Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Damien, May 5, 2012.
This is true.
Lack of spending power will show when Fergie leaves.
It showed when Paul Scholes retired.
Because we haven't been so far. We have always used a sustainable policy and through that we can't compete especially on the wages which are ridiculous over at City. Although it is starting to worry me.
Only God knows Fergie.
It makes a good read to see Fergie come out and say we'll be bringing a few players in! Previous years, it's always been the usual, "no value in the market" comments, he may as well had come out with a machine gun and shoot the all the Muppets in one go! Hmmmmmn, wonder who it'll be? Messi, Ronaldo, Sneijder?
Also anyone else like me thinks Fellaini would be a good signing.
I know many people dont rate him but his strong presence cannot be neglected and he is wrongly under-rated imo.
I reckon we'll sign Kagawa, and a young full back.
Not for me tbh. Liverpool went on a spending spree and bought mid table players, look where that got them.
most probably it forms part of their strategy ie strenghtening their squad and at the same time try to weaken ours. They re ready to pay someone to warm the bench just to make sure he wont join us.
Anyway, they can do it and it seems that no one can stop them, not even the ffp..
I am not talking about a spending spree of mid table players.Just Felaini.
We have bought mid table players too, they haven't all turned out bad right?
Christ that article makes it sound like we are having a season like Arsenal, Liverpool andChelsea (in the league). I don't see why spending should come in to consideration when we won the league last year and we are joint top with the team who stockpiles and pays ridiculous wages to the best players. People moaned that we paid £30m for Rio and £16m for Carrick when we could have got them for a fraction of the price had we bought them before they went to Leeds and Spurs respectively. Now we try to buy young talent before they become stars (e.g Jones, De Gea etc.) and people now want ready made stars. You're dammed if you and dammed if you don't.
A good backup for carrick imo, but for a first team regular, i pretend more
That's because they are all crap. We signed Young, Valencia and Phil Jones in the past few years from smaller premier league sides and they have been quite successful, Jones will no doubt have a very long successful career ahead of him. Valencia has arguably been the best winger in the league this season, and Young has been a bit hit or miss but much better than any of Liverpool's mediocre signings.
As Gambit said, we're not restricted by debt. We actually want to be a successfully solvent and profitable club who chooses to turn profits rather than run at hundreds of millions of pound loses and be completely unsustainable.
Yes, we probably have bought mid table players, but players with potential. I can't help but feel that Felaini is at his full potential and wouldn't offer us anything more that we currently have at United.
tbf I was being a bit harsh with the Liverpool comment, you are right we have bought similar players recently, but our players have come on better than Liverpool's and shown more potential
Most interesting thing for me out of this report from the Mirror was that he gives a shout out to Cleverley and Carrick but ignores every other centre midfielder at the club. Does that give a window into Fergie's thinking when it comes to the futures of Ando and Fletch?
While things might have been easier without the Glazers, there was no way we could compete even if we had the old structure of the PLC. It's still comes down to spending out of what you can make from football compared with spend what your owner can make from business and oil. It's just a totally different universe of money.
In Fletch's case, no one really knows whether he ll be the same player again. Ando's case is a different - i suspect that fergie has started to lose his patience with him.
I really despise the idea of us buying trophies with unearned money, it's just not the same. I'm sure City are glad as it's been a long time since they've come close to success but for us, a team with proud history I'd hate to see us go down that path. I'd rather we spent within our means.
Besides, I think we've seen enough over the last 10 years to know that a huge transfer fee is no guarantee of success, I'm not even sure the correlation between money spent and success would be that great.
I'd just like to remind everyone that last year's £38 million was the highest year's net spend on transfers in the club's history. We're no more limited than we ever were, it's just that City and Chelsea are now playing a different sport to us.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, if those in power in football aren't willing to rein in the monstrous playthings of billionaires, then we should stop fighting them with one hand tied behind our back.
They've ruined the market. The fact is they get linked to everyone. They buy the players they want and then the price of our targets increase because of them. We made money, we bought and then we left the market. These clubs hover over it like the plague and it's killing the sport.
Might be a simplistic way of looking at it but interest payments are 50mil a year roughly. If there was no debt you would have to say the owners are entitled to at least 20mil of the 50mil the club would have spare. That gives us an extra 30mil a year for transfers. Nothing to be sneezed at all but we still cant compete with City unless we do a Madrid and just borrow to buy players.
Chelsea/Man city/Madrid/Barca have all inflated the market to a crazy level.
The only way to get to a financial level playing field with the likes of City is a takeover by a rich sugar daddy. I wish it doesn't happen. I'd relish the challenge without an annual Football Manager muppetry.
We have Evans, Welbeck and to an extent Cleverly making significant contribution this season, with prospects of being an integral part of our team for a decade. I'd rather win a title once in 3-4 years with a United side than have a bunch of mercenaries winning it for us every other year.
Didnt we make a profit of both Manucho and Obertan? How is that money wasted? Berbatov has gotten plenty of games after we bought him obviously, so thats a silly argument.
We've indeed made a few baffling signings in the past, but dont forget the great transfers we've made aswell. Someone might judge the success of transfers by the profit of their resale value, but thats proper ignorance in my opinion.
People rolling their eyes when Fergie talks about the importance of promoting youth, but have they really realised how much we could've been forced to spend if we would have the quality of the likes of Giggs, Scholes, Neville over the last 20 years? Obviously we could've gotten lucky and bought brilliant signings for baragain prices, but to get the quality those players have provided for us under the Fergie era is more or less priceless in my opinion. Sure, I wouldve enjoyed seing us signing the likes of Hazard, Martinez and Sneijder but if people sighs and groans when Fergie talks about promoting youth it shows a lack of respect for the club and its history.
Wow, u know what thanks for reminding us about those, we had completely forgotten about them.........
That's the point really. It isn't that we aren't spending, it's who we are spending it on. You mentioned who Newcastle had bought. Great buys, but why didn't we know about them. The big problem we have is the people advising Fergie who to buy. They have been giving him some terrible advice lately. Who told him Bebe was PL class should be shot.
The season we bought Bebe, we bought, Smalling and Hernandez, luckily two of them have worked. Can we keep on hoping that we are lucky with our buys? Maybe we need to start buying sure things again. Young ones, but proven ones.
I wouldn't laugh too much, he might just be right.
No it doesn't at all. It shows what we all know. that we cannot afford to buy the players we want so we are relying on unproven, untested youngsters coming from the ranks and into the first team.
The difference between the 2 is that if our youngsters are that good that they negate the need for new signings then great. Unfortunately that is not the case. We need more quality, that does not mean we have to spend £200m on 4 players, but it may mean we have to spend £30m on the right player, we need a midfield general and we do not have one coming through the ranks. So what do we do in the meantime, nothing?
If you ignore strengthening the team for too long then you fall behind, it's that simple. Being disappointed about that is not being disrespectful to anyone or anything. It's an irrefutable fact. SAF is saying himself we need to add players, so why is it so wrong for others to be disappointed when a potential target doesn't materialise?
I wanted a DM last year when everyone else was crying for Modric or Sneijder, we never even looked at one. I believe we have paid a heavy price for that oversight, especially in Europe, through the lack of another Carrick type. So it's ok saying we should promote youth if it is good enough and ready for the job, but if it isn't then by the same rule you cannot leave yourself short, which we have.
SAF needs to address it this summer, and i think he will. He is not a fool, he might be a stubborn old sod at times, but he is not stupid, and he will not want to see the likes of City disappear over the horizon, while we are waiting for the Tunnicliffes and Petrucci's to come through.
City were always going to be closing the gap with the money they have spent, but our inaction has helped them to do so even quicker. A couple of choice signings would have kept them at arms length for another season imo. Now we may have to make a couple of signings to give ourselves a realistic chance next year.
Presumably because we didn't buy a replacement for him and our midfield has been a trainwreck without him in it.
Queiroz it was. I have to agree about the scouting. It seems a long time ago since we found a real gem, yet we seem to be willing to take relatively expensive punts on players who are turning out to be almost ridiculously inadequate.
We seem to want far too long watching players and in this current climate you have to make your mind up a lot quicker. If we look at Jones and Smalling, we had been watching these players for quite a while, yet in the end we were rushed into signing them sooner than SAF would have liked because of interest from other clubs.
Nowadays i just don't think you can spend as long watching a player like you could 10 years ago. We may need to get someone in who can identify the talent a lot quicker, and speed the process quite a bit. We do seem to be struggling in this area, by the time we have made our minds up about a player, everyone else is interested and we are caught in a bidding war.
The thing is i think in this day and age, once you fall behind you cannot really catch up again without huge investment. We have seen Arsenal follow this route, and to no real avail. They have gone from the finest footballing team in the land in 05 to a team whose annual target is battling it out for 4th place every season.
We have even seen something similar from Chelsea. They, after huge initial investment then decided to cut back and subsequently have gone backwards. So i don't really think, once you stand still that we can reasonably expect a title at least once every 5 years. I think once you lose the momentum of regularly challenging, it becomes harder and harder to stay competitive.
So you choose to completely ignore the rest of my post to make that argument? To say that we cannot afford to buy the players we want is ridiculous concisering our spending spree last summer. It's our history and legacy to promote youth whilst making the odd huge signing to make sure that we're able to handle transitional periods. Would you say that we were stupid not to buy someone when we brought through Giggs, Scholes and others from TC92? Taking a risk on youngsters is in our blood and its served us well so far, wouldnt you say?
I agree that you risk to fall behind if you dont strenghten the team over a long period of time, but didnt we do exactly this just this last summer? Even though we're not buying FM-stars doesnt mean that we arent strenghten the team. We all know what happened to Veron, Hargreaves and even some with Berbatov aswell. It just goes to show that signing 'stars' doesnt always bring out the best of our team, but the success of our club in the last 20 years have been hugely based on promoting youth players. Obviously we've benefited greatly from bringing in the likes of Rooney and Rio, but who is to say that buying big and promoting youth cannot go hand in hand?
I also agree that we should not promote players to the first team for the sake of it, and as you say; Fergie is not stupid. If he brings a youngster into the first team, it's not just so he can say that we're known for bringing youth players through but it will be because he thinks that certain player will bring something to the team. As you mentioned earlier, it's that simple. The gap in our midfield might have been ment for Pogba, and Morrison mightve been able to play the Owen/Macheda/Berbatov role next year but things doesnt always pan out. I agree that we need a new midfielder, but Im also aware of how a huge signing in midfield will affect the chance of our other youngsters in the future. Fergie doesnt just plan a season ahead, he sees if for how it is and plans several years in advance which is why some obvious signings might not be completed though its obvious that its needed. Teams go through transitional periods, and we're in one now and we're still competing for the title. How many teams can do that concidering the major spending power we're up against?
All 3 of our signings last Summer were expensive enough. Young was £18m and had a year on his contract, and we give him 120k a week or something daft. If the club can't compete with others in terms of transfer fees and wages then that sure ain't a good way of showing it.
Lucky? We've fantastic scouts and Ferguson is the best spotter of talent out there, it's not luck.
not at all, i took the crux of your post and gave my opinion on it. I never said we couldn't afford to sign players. SAF said last year himself we could not sign the players we want for midfield.
We haven't strengthened the team though Burrow, buying a 20yr old keeper to replace someone who is retiring is not strengthening the team mate. It is replacing a player, there is a difference. If De Gea had come in and been better than VDS was then of course that position has then been strengthened.
Burrow i know what you are saying but you are missing the point. SAF tried to sign midfielders last year, he failed to do so. Then he promotes youth, so the youth are not there on merit they are there because we could not bring in better. That is not even debatable, that is exactly what happened. Make no mistake SAF wanted Nasri, we didn't get him but not so we could bring through youth.
So my point stands. We need a quality midfielder. Another Carrick type for me, only with a bit more steel about him. We haven't got a youth who fits that bill anyway, so not signing what we need is not allowing youth to come through, it is simply weakening the team as opposed to doing what we can by making it stronger.
Did he? Even if true, you think he'd spend 17m on Ashley Young and tell him that he wasn't the player her really wanted?
Instead of underlining your take on what he said maybe use quotes?
Hardly a central midfielder though moses tbf. I honestly think this has been our problem, the players we want are being touted at £30-40m, on top of huge wages.
That is what is preventing us from strengthening our weakest area. I don't think he pushed the boat out far enough last year, he took a huge gamble with Fletcher staying fit and it didn't pay off. He also gambled on the early season performances of Cleverley and Anderson as proof we didn't need creativity (which i agreed with), but injuries robbed us of that.
I think SAF will be much more determined to get the right player this season and will not gamble as much as he felt he could last summer.
Separate names with a comma.