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Four Chelsea fans to go on trial over Paris Métro racism

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87, Jan 4, 2017.

  1. Jan 4, 2017
    #41

    SirHenryPercy Full Member

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    Not all of them, some of them were truly violent and exceeded their reputations.
  2. Jan 4, 2017
    #42

    Kentonio Full Member

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    I've no interest in playing a game of 'who had the hardest hooligans'. I dearly wish our lot had been the most pathetic bunch of wannabe hardmen in the country. Nothing would make me happier than having my club as far separated from that time of violence and thuggery as possible.
  3. Jan 4, 2017
    #43

    SirHenryPercy Full Member

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    I know, that's why I said to you not to fret about it.
  4. Jan 4, 2017
    #44

    M18CTID Full Member

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    Not having a go and like you I'm not making sweeping generalisations mate. Chelsea fans did indeed have one of the worst reputations for racism back in the 70's and 80's but Liverpool fans weren't considered to be much better back then either. So much so, that Nick Hornby's excellent book Fever Pitch recounts an incident from John Barnes' Liverpool debut at Highbury in 1987 when a bunch of bananas was thrown towards him on the pitch - I think as he was warming up - from the Liverpool end.
  5. Jan 4, 2017
    #45

    Cassady Full Member

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    Wrong about John Barnes at Highbury. That was dildos from a sex shop that got had off in Soho prior to the game. I was in the Liverpool end mate and know what I seen and know some of the lads that had the shop off. There was a few blow up dolls there to. Nick Hornby was the other end of the ground I imagine or at least in the stands at the side. 100% it was didlos and not bannanas.

    Banannas sells books . Didlos dont.

    Everton fans on more than one occasion threw them at him . Not once do I remember Liverpool fans throwing bannanas at John Barnes and never missed many games back then.

    Iam not saying that no Liverpool fans were / are rascist. Its societies problem and football is part of society.

    And you don't need to tell me about the
    Chelsea following back in the 80's and nobody elses following for that matter.
  6. Jan 4, 2017
    #46

    M18CTID Full Member

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    With all due respect mate, this Liverpool fan on RAWK who was there corroborates Hornby's tale: http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=181244.70;wap

    Not denying that there weren't any dildos being lobbed around though by the way ;)

    It wasn't just Liverpool and Chelsea of course - racism was prevalent amongst fans at virtually every club back then. Everton fans as you say were pretty bad too - didn't they used to have a slogan proclaiming "Everton Are White" or something of that nature?
  7. Jan 4, 2017
    #47

    Cassady Full Member

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    Ok then if someone says it then it may have been. I stand corrected if Iam wrong. I was probably taking cover from all the dildos being thrown .

    Oh I do miss the old away days from the 80's., Iam not promoting rasism or violence but the laughs we use to have.

    Yes. Everton were rascist . Not sure about the Everton are white slogan but I know a few of there lads stopped going in the 93 season I think it was when they signed that forward. They use to sing that trigger , trigger , trigger song to.

    Anyway. feck rascism !
  8. Jan 4, 2017
    #48

    Cassady Full Member

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    Just read that link from RAWK.

    Kavagh who was was a good match goer says the NF came nowhere near Liverpool when they use to recruit in the 80s. They most probably would have got twatted due to our left wing political history and our Irish ancestry.
  9. Jan 5, 2017
    #49

    Prodigal7 Full Member

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    Because he could not be proven to be inciting racial hatred beyond resonable doubt. He was given a lengthy ban by the FA for his clearly racist remarks. There is a tangible differrence between being racist and breaking the law by inciting racial hatred. Both are sick and so is their scumbag captain.
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  10. Jan 5, 2017
    #50

    MDFC Manager Full Member

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    Key points conveniently forgotten by his fans
  11. Jan 11, 2017 at 16:57
    #51

    BonkersIam Full Member

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    The FA also cleared him of being racist...all they charged him for was saying a remark which he believed had been said to him.
    Quote from trial "Chief Magistrate Howard Riddle said he had heard a great deal of evidence to show Mr Terry was not racist" and "He did not racially abuse Anton Ferdinand, and the court has accepted this."

    And from the FA where to be guilty of rule E3 (what they charged him under) you just have to use certain words such as Rio Ferdinand with his choc ice stuff

    The verdict released by the FA said: "The Football Association charged Mr Terry on Friday 27 July 2012 with using abusive and/or insulting words and/or behaviour towards Queens Park Rangers' Anton Ferdinand and which included a reference to colour and/or race contrary to FA Rule E3 [2] .

    and "Unlike in Terry's court case, the prosecution never had to prove intent, merely that certain words were used"

    and "The panel said the Chelsea captain, 31, is not a racist"

    Key points conveniently forgotten by his detractors

    PS: he was tried under the
    Racially or religiously aggravated offences - Crime and Disorder Act 1998(amended by Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001)

    and not

    Incitement to racial hatred - sections 17-29 Public Order Act 1986

    as you seemed so keen to put down as weight to your point
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017 at 17:13
  12. Jan 11, 2017 at 17:38
    #52

    manutd619 Full Member

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    Disgusting behaviour from a group of complete imbeciles

    Im embarrassed to be English and associated with the likes of these cretines
  13. Jan 11, 2017 at 18:26
    #53

    Prodigal7 Full Member

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    I'm not a lawyer but the principal of my point stands.
    The FA don't dish out charges on the basis of "he said this to me" without any basis for backing it up. Cameras clearly showed Terry calling Anton a black cnut. That's racist from anyone's perspective surely, regardless of whether it breaks the law? Why call someone a black cnut and not just a cnut - why add the black reference?
    Not enough to be criminally prosecuted for, but enough for the FA to charge him for using race to insult someone, which by my standards is racism.
  14. Jan 12, 2017 at 08:16
    #54

    Treble_Winning New Member

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    So if John Terry was completely innocent, why was he stripped of the England captaincy and forced into international retirement?

    He is an idiot (most footballers are) but that does not excuse the fact that he clearly said something racist and was duly charged for it. The prosecutors don't bring cases for fun. Sometimes the defendant gets off on a technicality and that seems to be the case here.

    Terry is well loved by Chelsea's thuggish right wing skinhead fans and is also notorious for being a complete idiot, which included insulting Americans right after 9/11 along with his buddy Lampard, and shagging his team mate's fiancée. This is someone who has consistently set a bad example and yet Chelsea fans adore him as their "captain, leader, legend" in a similar fashion to how Donald Trump can do no wrong in the eyes of his supporters.
  15. Jan 12, 2017 at 09:26
    #55

    Ekkie Thump New Member

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    When folk get angry they say stuff they don't really mean and try to hurt the other person with it. Using a racial slur will do just that. Sure its abusive, shouldn't happen and should be punished, but I don't think it's super strong evidence that Terry is a perennial racist who deeply believes in the racial superiority of the white man
  16. Jan 12, 2017 at 09:29
    #56

    Kentonio Full Member

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    Completely agree.
  17. Jan 12, 2017 at 09:45
    #57

    SammyUnited_83 Full Member

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    Football in general seems to find a way to conveniently forget things, and it happens everywhere.

    Let's not forget that United hire Ron Atkinson for MUTV.
  18. Jan 12, 2017 at 10:03
    #58

    matherto ask me about our 50% off sale!

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    Can someone put this in English and not in fecking horrible scouse please?

    I couldn't help but read this in the most gutteral, white lightning drinking, weed in the spare bedroom growing, Fred Perry tracksuit wearing horrible Scouse accent possible. I don't know how you managed to sound so Scouse through text but you did it. Just surprised you didn't end every sentence with lad. And for those who wanna correct, trust me, it's not la.

    'that was dildos from a sex shop that got had off'

    Please stop using my oxygen. Ta kidda.
  19. Jan 12, 2017 at 10:08
    #59

    Kentonio Full Member

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    JT's explanation was: "I'm disappointed that people have leapt to the wrong conclusions about the context of what I was seen to be saying to Anton Ferdinand," he said. "I thought Anton was accusing me of using a racist slur against him. I responded aggressively, saying that I never used that term. I would never say such a thing, and I'm saddened that people would think so."

    After the game he went to find Anton to ensure the situation was resolved.

    "John Terry's view "Anton and I spoke for 10 minutes in the dressing room after the game and there is no issue between us," Terry said. Cole was among the players also in attendance and the conversation was witnessed in part by the Chelsea manager, André Villas-Boas, as he headed out to conduct his post-match media duties. The pair ended their chat by "high-fiving and embracing" with the situation apparently resolved.

    Anton Ferdinand's view He claims that Terry approached him after the game, asking: "Are we cool?" Ferdinand said they were, which may have been because the QPR defender had had no idea there had been an issue between them in the first place."

    The police became involved because of a complaint by a member of the public.

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/oct/26/john-terry-anton-ferdinand

    It was certainly stupid to respond by repeating the term he thought he'd been accused of using, but the idea that he's a racist was not accepted by the court, by the FA or by the black Chelsea players who were present at the time, and the many, many more who had worked and played alongside him for his entire career.
  20. Jan 12, 2017 at 15:44
    #60

    Treble_Winning New Member

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  21. Jan 12, 2017 at 16:01
    #61

    RedFish Full Member

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    Sickening abhorrent behaviour. I hope they get jailed.
  22. Jan 12, 2017 at 16:07
    #62

    Kentonio Full Member

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    That does not say he was pressured into supporting Terry. According to Rio's account Ash says he was told (by whom he doesn't specify) that he has to attend. You're basically accusing him of committing perjury, and I'd be very careful with that kind of accusation if I were you.
  23. Jan 12, 2017 at 16:45
    #63

    Treble_Winning New Member

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    Why do you think he was so sheepish with Rio, to the extent that he refused to even call him? On account of their long friendship surely at least a phone call would be in order?
  24. Jan 12, 2017 at 16:49
    #64

    Kentonio Full Member

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    He was a childhood friend of both JT and Rio and was then dropped into a situation where he had to hurt one of them. I have absolutely zero interest in judging how he handles his friendships, and it has not a single thing to do with the facts of the case.
  25. Jan 12, 2017 at 16:55
    #65

    Treble_Winning New Member

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    Well, no matter what, there's no denying that this affair caused a major rift in the England squad and probably destroyed the team spirit in the dressing room. With the players that England had at the time, the team should have challenged for international honors. Rio/Terry at least on paper could rival any CB partnership in the world in their prime.

    This racism incident and the Wayne Bridge incident - guess what the lowest common denominator is?
  26. Jan 12, 2017 at 17:52
    #66

    Kentonio Full Member

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    England's golden generation never really clicked properly together, but the chief reason for that was in midfield. Trying to blame JT for Englands failures is pretty rich.
  27. Jan 12, 2017 at 19:42
    #67

    BonkersIam Full Member

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    because he maintains he was repeating back to Ferdinand what he thought Ferdinand said.

    Ferdinand didnt even hear him say it....and the charge wasnt bought because of complaint by ferdinand... it was reported by a policeman watching TV
  28. Jan 13, 2017 at 15:14
    #68

    Cassady Full Member

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    Nice try . Beaut !