From the Times : Rock bottom - United's failing youth team.

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by RedMachine03, Mar 3, 2018.

  1. Mar 3, 2018
    #1

    RedMachine03 Poster of Articles

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  2. Mar 3, 2018
    #2

    BluesJr Full Member

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    What’s more important in a youth side? Winning or producing players who can then play for you or be sold for profit? We continue to be the only top club regualrly giving these players a chance and now with Gomes and Chong on the fringes, there is more on the way.

    Weird article.
  3. Mar 3, 2018
    #3

    BigBebe Full Member

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    Ricky Sbragia is such an uninspiring choice to manage a youth team.
  4. Mar 3, 2018
    #4

    Oscie Full Member

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    Absolutely. Who cares if the youth side win or lose? It's there to prepare players for the first team. That's the be all and end all.
  5. Mar 3, 2018
    #5

    Nickys Butt Banned

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    Wasn't Rashford part of a pretty underwhelming U18s team? Didn't seem to hold him back much.
  6. Mar 3, 2018
    #6

    Inigo Montoya Leave Wayne Rooney alone!!

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    Nonsense article that takes no notice of the fact that none of the top 6 promote youth players en masse. One or two here and there maybe but Chelsea and City have made it known that the jump is enormous and they'd rather send them out on loan for a season or two
  7. Mar 3, 2018
    #7

    breakout67 Full Member

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    The purpose of the youth team is not to win some pointless cup, it's to prepare them for top level football. The United academy continues to produce players at the top level of football because they focus on teaching good footballing principles rather than being seen as 'winners'.

    McTominay just got promoted to the first team and was part of the 1st team for one of the biggest games of the season. Jesse Lingard scored the deciding goal in our most recent game and is one of our standout players this season.
  8. Mar 3, 2018
    #8

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt Scouse Lover

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    The article is a waste of time. The headline is just click bait.
    U-23 football is a joke. The gap between it and first team football is just too big.
    You can't have your cake and eat it.
    Tip academies should be able to field sides in the lower leagues. Until that happens, there's no incentive to persist with this crap.
  9. Mar 3, 2018
    #9

    Android1974 Incredibly anal about player positions in lineups City Lover

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    Alright, alright, but let me play devil's advocate for a second. Is their any special thing you teach youngsters by losing? Don't better football teams usually win games?
  10. Mar 3, 2018
    #10

    Varun Moderator Staff

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    I've read a lot of the youth team followers here say our U23s are quite a poor batch. Still shocking to see how low they are in the table mind.

    Out of curiosity, how many are out on loan and thus not featuring? Or is our full strength U23s that's shitting the bed?
  11. Mar 3, 2018
    #11

    Seveneric Full Member

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    Ugh, another United hit-piece, why won't they leave the club alone. City always gets positive coverage :( Wonder if I've left out any key phrase from the caf whiner starter pack
  12. Mar 3, 2018
    #12

    Varun Moderator Staff

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    Its a nonsense excuse. I doubt we're building a La Masia exclusively at the U23 level teaching them stuff that's totally alien to them with an amazing long term plan.
  13. Mar 3, 2018
    #13

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt Scouse Lover

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    Who the feck even appointed Sbragia?
  14. Mar 3, 2018
    #14

    Android1974 Incredibly anal about player positions in lineups City Lover

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    To keep away someone who might be a shadow to Mourinho and take the first team in case of a crisis?
  15. Mar 3, 2018
    #15

    SirAF Ageist

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    Meh.

    The U18s are top of the league, I think?
  16. Mar 3, 2018
    #16

    KM I’m afraid I just blue myself Staff

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    Or you know to appoint a coach who was excellent in his previous outing as an United reserve manager?
  17. Mar 3, 2018
    #17

    tavtavtav New Member

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    Alright, I understand how people are going to talk about how youth football should be about preparing the players for Adult football and not results etc. But in fairness if the U-23s is being slapped around like silly and are literally bottom of their league, I don’t see how you can play it off as anything but them either being not very good or them not being handled well. I feel It’s different to the likes of the younger age groups, in that they should literally be expecting to make a step up to professional football imminently, and should be further ahead in their development. Furthermore, if looking to develop players specifically for united, surely it’s advantageous to bring them through used to playing with the expectation, and level of control over games as United have. Overall I’m not especially worried about our youth setup, but I don’t think the article should just be so easily dismissed.

    Worth noting the Likes of Chong and Gomes and those bright sparks aren’t even playing at level, so it could in fact be true the we are simply failing with this crop. Ultimately I’d like to see us always strive for improvement, and wouldn’t want whoever is in charge / the coaches to just haves continuous free ride unless they are able to properly justify what they are doing.
  18. Mar 3, 2018
    #18

    KM I’m afraid I just blue myself Staff

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    Yeah. The u23s are a very average bunch.
  19. Mar 3, 2018
    #19

    Wumminator The Special One!

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    You have to remember that the players at this age group are already in our first team.

    Mctominay and Rashford are two who would still be playing in this league if they were at City.

    Some of the other best players are loaned out to good clubs. Mensah and Tunazbe for example.

    Meanwhile Gomes is still extraordainarily young and is getting minutes. At the moment he is learning his role without a lot of pressure and will be getting valuable insight.

    Basically there is no (literally no) relation between doing well in this league and blooding in youth playersz
  20. Mar 3, 2018
    #20

    KM I’m afraid I just blue myself Staff

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    Anyways there's nothing much to worry about. This U23s are a poor bunch. Our U18s are currently at top of the league.
  21. Mar 3, 2018
    #21

    SadlerMUFC Full Member

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    http://www.skysports.com/football/n...-most-minutes-in-201617-premier-league-season

    This is an article from last season. It may be a year old but nothing has changed. If anything, we would have more players now with McTominay making the leap to the first team. As this article shows, we have more academy players in our first team than any other team. Tottenham is 2nd but we have doubled their playing time of academy grads. THen if we look at our academy grads who are now playing their trade at other EPL teams it doesn't even come close. OUr u23's might not be lighting up their league, but we are still producing more first team players than any other club. Pep even named a team with a player short not too long ago rather than naming an academy player on the bench. Makes me wonder why any youth player would even want to ply their trade with our "noisy neighbours", not to mention CHelsea who just sends all their academy products out on loan with no chance of first team football...
  22. Mar 3, 2018
    #22

    laughtersassassin New Member

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    Hey mate

    The saying is originally eat your cake and have it too. People have been saying it wrong for hundreds of years now :lol::drool:
  23. Mar 3, 2018
    #23

    Android1974 Incredibly anal about player positions in lineups City Lover

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    I wonder if that's so. In the Portuguese and Spanish context, it surely isn't, the best academies are usually on top. No wonder Guardiola was taking La Masia kid's from third to second division, etc. If you play better football, you are simultaneously getting results and forming players. There's a serious issue with age and physical prowess, though, that might distort results. All the other stuff you said applies to other clubs too. One can say Chelsea, for instance, was forming youngsters for other clubs, they are still forming players, though.
  24. Mar 3, 2018
    #24

    Beachryan More helpful with spreadsheets than Phurry

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    It's just the ABU media - AGAIN. Last season they ignored how the U23s were doing, and focussed on the U18s as they were struggling. This season the opposite.

    Anything to get a dig in.

    As I posetd somewhere else, we really, REALLY need to improve our comms department. Get these f*cking hacks onside, just bribe them the way City does.
  25. Mar 3, 2018
    #25

    NinjaFletch Full Member

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    I think we've got about nine loanees out (think it was eight before January BoJo came back Tuanzebe and Mitchell went out).

    They could all be playing in the U23s and I'm sure they'd get better results than they're currently getting, but would that be good for their development?

    The evidence of City and Chelsea's success at that level compared to the dearth of players making it into their first team would suggest not.
  26. Mar 3, 2018
    #26

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.

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    They aren't even going to bother looking into that. They just want a stick to beat us with again. I don't consider U-23 as youth anyway, our actual youth U-18's are top and have a lot of promising players in there.
  27. Mar 3, 2018
    #27

    diplomat Banned

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    We are constantly having youth players integrated into our squad every season, so I don't see any general problem with it. Maybe it's Sbargia who needs to be changed if he's not really doing well for the U23s but this article is just nonsense to me.
  28. Mar 3, 2018
    #28

    Wan Full Member

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    There was someone on this board who was blaming Mourinho for the U23s current position.
  29. Mar 3, 2018
    #29

    Nick7 Full Member

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    Our best youth players are at u18s. Our best u23s are on loan getting decent experience. Sbragia is whatever but needs to be replaced by a better coach.
  30. Mar 3, 2018
    #30

    Hed Zitin Banned

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    We are the best at producing players and giving them a career in the game in this league. That is the most important thing. Look at the amount of Championship and PL players that have come through. We bring in good youth too.

    You aren't going to have a youth team full of winners coming into your side. Only happens once is a while like Barca and us. You pick a few of them and we have always been able to do so.

    Right now we could pick Mctominay, Chong, Rashford, Tuanzebe, Fosu Mensa and Gomes easily. These are talented kids.
  31. Mar 3, 2018
    #31

    Nick7 Full Member

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    Their reserve teams play in the professional lower leagues ours don't. That's makes a massive difference.
  32. Mar 3, 2018
    #32

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.

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    It would be great for kids to be in that sort of league system, but unfortunately the lower league teams would not agree to that, unless you were allowed to adopt a team. You cannot blame them.
  33. Mar 3, 2018
    #33

    Nick7 Full Member

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    Yeah it's interesting. I like the idea of having the reserve team as a professional lower league side but it's impossible to do with the amount of professional historic teams in England.

    Even if, as you say, you could "adopt" a team you're basically capping them because they couldn't play in the same league as the first team. Would any professional team say yes to that? Doubt it.
  34. Mar 3, 2018
    #34

    Android1974 Incredibly anal about player positions in lineups City Lover

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    Of course, that's the best solution, B teams playing second or, more probably, third tier. In Spain, only Barcelona B manages to stay in the second, but in Portugal, where the competition is less, up to five top clubs have their B teams in the second. I wonder why it hasn't been applied in the UK. Maybe there's resistance to it from Championship and League One clubs?
  35. Mar 3, 2018
    #35

    AR87 Full Member

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    Without bothering to read the article or the arguments it's making, on its face it's incredibly dumb. Rashford, McTominay, Pereira, Fosu-Mensah and Tuanzebe would all be playing at that level if they hadn't already been fast tracked into the first team and/or loaned out at senior level to get experience.

    How can you write such an article when Mourinho is starting McTominay over Pogba in meaningful CL ties? Just ridiculous.
  36. Mar 3, 2018
    #36

    Nick7 Full Member

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    It's impossible with the amount of professional teams in the Football League.
  37. Mar 3, 2018
    #37

    FootyGirl88

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    Is anyone really surprised the u23 aren't doing that well? They have lost alot of good players in the space of 2/3 years.

    Pereira, Januzaj, Fosu-mensah, CBJ, Varela,Tuanzebe Johnstone, Rashford, Powell, Keane. And those are just the ones I can remember, at that level those players were VERY good quality so it was always going to be tough to replace them. I do think the current manager should be getting more out of the current batch. But it terms of individual quality we will have to wait till the next batch comes through.
  38. Mar 3, 2018
    #38

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.

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    Wilson was capable of getting a few goals for them and he has gone as well. Willock is out on loan. You cannot see who will score for them and if you don't score, you might just lose.
  39. Mar 3, 2018
    #39

    Ban Full Member

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    Another article about something negative at United. Oh the surprise.
  40. Mar 3, 2018
    #40

    Wan Full Member

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    Anything to attack the club. It was normal during our successful eras, but you just feel in the last year or so every little stuff bad stuff gets reported. Last year they write stuff about our U18s being poor, and just recently about us shelving plans upgrading OT and chose to invest in transfer instead. Then theres the issue with Pogba recently, and Rashford's playing time after we bought Sanchez(along with how Mourinho misusing Mkhi).

    And up at City everything smells of roses.