Game raisers - not them, us!

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by OldSchoolManc, Aug 19, 2018.

  1. Aug 19, 2018
    #1

    OldSchoolManc Full Member

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    I don’t mean the likes of Brighton, Huddersfield or Newcastle whenever they play us. Although, you can be sure that those teams will lie down and let City and Liverpool batter them.

    I mean Manchester United.

    We always had that fighting spirit til the final whistle and NEVER underestimated anyone. Now it seems, we only turn up against the supposed big teams (occasionally at that).
    Against the ‘minnows’, it feels like we turn up half arsed. Far too many examples of it now. Last season - Sevilla, Huddersfield, Newcastle and West Brom to name a few. We look nervous, panicky and sloppy against these teams.

    Why oh why, can’t we at least be professional in these so called ‘easier’ games.

    It’s a disgrace.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 19, 2018
  2. Aug 19, 2018
    #2

    el3mel Full Member

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    Agree completely.

    We're very arrogant team, arrogant for nothing. It's really, really hard to support these half arsed and arrogant players tbh.

    Miss the good old days when our players were actually fighting for it.
  3. Aug 19, 2018
    #3

    BluesJr Full Member

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    I’m not sure it’s a case of being half arsed but there’s just no personality in this team at all and no backbone whatsoever.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 19, 2018
  4. Aug 19, 2018
    #4

    KirkDuyt Full Member

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    I don't get the argument that teams roll over for City and Liverpool. It's them and the way they play that makes the opponent roll over, not the other way around.
  5. Aug 19, 2018
    #5

    OldSchoolManc Full Member

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    Did you read the OP? I said that it was United only turning up vs big teams.
    I did say that ‘Although, those teams will lie down and let City and Liverpool batter them.’ because that is true. Wether it is because United are now an easier scalp and still the biggest name to take down, is another matter.
  6. Aug 19, 2018
    #6

    harms Way Staff

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    For the sake of the truth, Liverpool loses tons of points with the minnows.
  7. Aug 19, 2018
    #7

    Harry190 Full Member

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    Honestly, didn't get the feeling Brighton raised its game today. They did just enough. We were that bad.
  8. Aug 19, 2018
    #8

    Vidyoyo Self-confessed coffee shop chat-up expert

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    Read the first sentence.
  9. Aug 19, 2018
    #9

    Harry190 Full Member

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    Yes, I'm fully aware. It was a side-note.
  10. Aug 19, 2018
    #10

    Vidyoyo Self-confessed coffee shop chat-up expert

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    Fair enough.
  11. Aug 19, 2018
    #11

    Raw Full Member

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    Because it's risky and leaves us vulnerable. In other words, we're cowardly.

    Miss the days where we'd throw the bloody kitchen sink at 'em and the opposition struggle and buckle under the pressure. Even if we don't win, at least we tried to rectify it.

    That second half today showed nothing to suggest that we tried to get a result.
  12. Aug 19, 2018
    #12

    OldSchoolManc Full Member

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    Thanks for the title change mods ;)
    Says it much better!
    It’s why they invented editors.
  13. Aug 19, 2018
    #13

    Treble Full Member

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    Jose's tactics suits games vs big teams. And then I wouldn't call the performances in them very good. Some good halfs of football now and then: e.g. 1st half at home vs Liverpool and 2nd half vs City away. Cant 'remember a dominant performance vs a good team from start to finish.
  14. Aug 19, 2018
    #14

    NinjaZombie Punched the air when Liverpool beat City

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    Yeah. He can nullify threats. But can't create any of his own.
  15. Aug 19, 2018
    #15

    OldSchoolManc Full Member

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    Chelsea at Old Trafford?
  16. Aug 19, 2018
    #16

    Raw Full Member

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    If you meant the one in 16/17 I agree. Very good performance from a really unlikely lineup from start to finish. That fixture last season, although we won, was only good in the 2nd half.
  17. Aug 19, 2018
    #17

    Treble Full Member

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    Only the second half. Chelsea dominated most of the first half.
  18. Aug 19, 2018
    #18

    Vidyoyo Self-confessed coffee shop chat-up expert

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    Agreed. Used to be true of Liverpool too and we'd freely acknowledge it.
  19. Aug 19, 2018
    #19

    Acole9 Outstanding

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    I remember Chris Smalling saying last season that they raise their game against the big sides, why?! We should be raising our game against everyone, same mentality each match.

    I would rather lose to the scouser or City if it means we beat the likes of Brighton, Huddersfield, Newcastle etc. if it comes down to it. These are the games which appear to be our achilles heel.
  20. Aug 19, 2018
    #20

    VeevaVee despite the protests, wears Ugg boots

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    Agree. Partly dreading Spurs but also thinking we'll probably game raise.
  21. Aug 19, 2018
    #21

    KirkDuyt Full Member

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    I know it's not the main point of the topic, but I don't get the line you quoted. They batter them until they lie down not the other way around.

    As for United I think it's mostly a confidence thing now. They lost that air of invincibility.
  22. Aug 20, 2018
    #22

    donkeyfish Full Member

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    Haven't had it since 2013, can't really say 'always' anymore sadly. Can't see it be a single, simple cause as it's been an obvious problem across 3 managers.
  23. Aug 20, 2018
    #23

    tentan New Member

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    You're right. Man utd - Small club mentality.
  24. Aug 20, 2018
    #24

    jem Full Member

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    It really is hard to watch. I've never liked the idea of someone like Giggs being our manager as he just hasn't had enough experience, but I think there is something to having the likes of Neville, Scholes, Butt and maybe even Beckham be involved in the team's management structure, as they have a true understanding of the mentality that is expected of those who pull on the jersey.
  25. Aug 20, 2018
    #25

    99withaflake Full Member

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    I'm convinced that Giggs would get another 10% effort out of those players. They just don't look bothered. We lost 3-1 and didn't look like we were breaking a sweat to get back into it. Saying that, players should be able to look at the badge and motivate themselves. It's called pride and self respect.
  26. Aug 20, 2018
    #26

    Snow Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down

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    Sometimes you just play against bottom half teams and someone brainfarts to concede a goal and then, against teams like City and Liverpool, the game is over because of how they're able to break. PL teams are all (most) good so if they score first they are all (most) capable of digging in.

    There are a couple of games a season where the opponent rolls over as a team but more often than not it's an individual mistake that causes it.

    As for OP, the current United bunch are definitely lacking some fight. Those that have fight lack a brain. Brighton were more aggressive for every ball. The team hasn't gelled yet with a new player in midfield adjusting to the rest of the players that haven't played together since May. Sanchez, Smalling, Herrara, these were the players with some of the most minutes in pre-season and they were all missing. Basically half of the first team that took part in friendlies.

    I think the team will be fine someway into the season. Not good but fine. What we're witnessing now are pre-season performances.
  27. Aug 20, 2018
    #27

    Harry190 Full Member

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    That's because the players would respect a former great far more than they would someone who hasn't played at their level. Besides, on the training ground, Giggs or Scholes would probably be able to coach out any dissent since they'd still be better with a football than most of the current players.

    It's the whole Zidane thing again. He tells you to do something, he shows you how to do it himself. What can you say then.
  28. Aug 20, 2018
    #28

    The_Order Full Member

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    People used to say the same about us under Fergie that teams roll over for us. Not true, we had a winning mentality, a ruthlessness that meant we had these type of teams beaten in the tunnels long before a ball was kicked. That's what City have now and to some extent Liverpool.

    That's what we are missing. We are too mentally fragile and years of poor recruitment and poor approach has dented our mentality. Teams see us now as an opportunity to become folk heroes.
  29. Aug 20, 2018
    #29

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.

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    Those teams always looked focused on the job, no hugging players on the other team and chatting to them. That is for after the game.
  30. Aug 20, 2018
    #30

    The_Order Full Member

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    There's nothing wrong with that, if you win.

    But we are mentally soft, and severely lacking leaders ala kean, cantona and Neville. And no one seems to want to take responsibility.
  31. Aug 20, 2018
    #31

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.

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    Ferguson always looked at the character of the players when he signed them. We look at the marketability.
  32. Aug 20, 2018
    #32

    sokol11 Full Member

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    One thing is the attitude that isn't right one is the quality that isn't there for the most part.

    Man by man:
    De Gea - I think the only one who can't take much of the blame for team performance as he is just keeping shots from goal. Should stay.
    Young - attitude is right, fighting spirit is there but quality is missing. Not United fullback quality. Should be replaced.
    Bailly - arrogant, strong but makes unnecessary risks, tackles dangerously and late, penalty was on him. With the right mentality and a little more brain he can be very good CB. Should stay.
    Lindelof - to soft, bullied not United CB quality. Should be replaced.
    Shaw - Never the same after the injury. Not good enough. Should be replaced.
    Mata - His legs have gone. Wandering aimlesly around. Doesn't even have the power anymore to kick long balls. Should be replaced.
    Fred - New to the environment. Needs time. Keep.
    Pereira - Also new to this level. Some promising signs. Keep.
    Pogba - Needs a head check. Sure he won the WC but that was with France team where he didn't need to be a star player. With the right mentality definitely should keep but he needs to remove stupid things like dribbling around his own penalty area. Holding of players on the ball at every opportunity, trying through balls from center circle when a team is sitting back and defending etc.
    Martial - I am sick of seeing his uninteresting attitude on the pitch. Get as much as we can for him and sell him. not that Alexis did any better in first game.
    Lukaku - Looked clumsy in this game but is a fighter and in the right team and a system he will thrive. Keep.

    Lingard, Rashford - brought on when we were chasing the game - they are at least squad quality and with the right team mentality. Definitely keep.
    Fellaini - fighter, kept and distributed more balls in his cameo appearance than Martial and Sanchez in two games combined. Mybe he should start on left wing?

    How on earth after a 4-6 transfer windows we still don't have even one solid fullback? Why is Mata still starting on right wing?
  33. Aug 20, 2018
    #33

    Beagle Full Member

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    And you're wrong. No professional team is lying down for anyone.
  34. Aug 20, 2018
    #34

    OldSchoolManc Full Member

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    Huddersfield?
  35. Aug 20, 2018
    #35

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.

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    Which makes things even worse, because City and Liverpool are thrashing teams because of their quality and style.
  36. Aug 20, 2018
    #36

    Beagle Full Member

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    You think they purposefully played to lose yesterday? They're just bad and whatever plans they had didn't work.

    Looking at United's game did you get the feeling that we'd decided to let Brighton win?
  37. Aug 20, 2018
    #37

    Beagle Full Member

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    True. The thing with these teams is they have limited resources and options and in most cases have only one effective way of playing. A gameplan which they can execute efficiently and that is their best chance. It is the job of the 'bigger' teams to contain that approach and impose their own way of playing. This is what is meant by controlling games and quality teams are capable of doing it.
  38. Aug 20, 2018
    #38

    #07 makes new threads with tweets in the OP

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    We're a glorified cup team at the moment. Shades of the Scousers under Rafa. We can go from beating Liverpool to losing to Sevilla, beating City to losing to West Brom. Our players seem incapable of putting it in week in week out.
  39. Aug 20, 2018
    #39

    NoLogo Full Member

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    Most certainly. They go out and attack from the first minute, always looking like teams that wants to put 3 or 4 past their opponents in the first half. There are teams who can deal better with this attacking onslaught and teams who are worse at it but there usually isn't even half a guess on who is going to dominate those games for the majority of the time.
  40. Aug 20, 2018
    #40

    paulscholes18 Full Member

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    Let’s hope this gets proven right on Monday