Germans and penalty shoot out.

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by The Azzurri, Apr 26, 2012.

  1. Apr 26, 2012
    #1

    The Azzurri Full Member

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    Why are they so damn good at it? It has almost come to a point where u can bet your house on the Germans winning a shoot out every single time
  2. Apr 26, 2012
    #2

    Liam147 On Probation

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    Not a complete cock, just really young.
    I remember hearing something about their mentality towards it. We English fear missing, whereas they anticipate scoring. Positive mindset. Look at Hargreaves' penalty for us in 2008.
  3. Apr 26, 2012
    #3

    Relevated I'm a moron, ignore everything I say lol

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    i read that the last time they lose one was 1982, is this true?
  4. Apr 26, 2012
    #4

    Waltraute She-Devil

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    My sister found a brilliant t-shirt in a little (equivalent of a) corner shop in Bavaria.

    They stocked only milk, bread, eggs and t-shirts bearing the legend 'Invincible Penalty Titan' -- 'Unbezwingbarer Elfmeter Titan'.
  5. Apr 26, 2012
    #5

    Rooney24 Full Member

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    It’s definitely a mental thing. They are like robots.

    A friend of mine who was brought in Germany and I were watching some Sunday league football once. One of the teams scored not long after kickoff and all the players starting celebrating like mad.

    He said to me “In Germany that doesn’t really happen. Of course we celebrate but not as madly as that. In Germany scoring is just what you are expected to do as part of the game”.
  6. Apr 26, 2012
    #6

    kps88 Full Member

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    Two Germans missed yesterday.
  7. Apr 26, 2012
    #7

    204Red Full Member

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    And I think it was an East German side as well
  8. Apr 26, 2012
    #8

    Sarni nice guy, unassuming, objective United fan.

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    This. They would have actually lost the shoot-out if Real could've converted more than one friggin penalty. It was Real who lost it more than Bayern who won it in penalties.
  9. Apr 26, 2012
    #9

    Raoul Administrator

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    Its amusing to think people are equating nationality with penalty taking.
  10. Apr 26, 2012
    #10

    Rooney24 Full Member

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    So do you believe there is nothing in it, and its simply down to luck?
  11. Apr 26, 2012
    #11

    KiD MoYeS Good Craig got his c'nuppins

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    They're emotionless robots, no nerves.
  12. Apr 26, 2012
    #12

    Annihilate Now! ...or later, I'm not fussy

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    No they wouldn't.... Madrid lost the shootout 3-1.
  13. Apr 26, 2012
    #13

    Rooney24 Full Member

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    Yep. Did anyone actually believe Schweinsteiger would miss?

    Not a chance.
  14. Apr 26, 2012
    #14

    RyanGoggs Insists on dating women in public places - for the

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    I think another key influence is that opposing teams have the perception that Germans are unbeatable at penalties. That has to play on your mind when you think that of you miss then they will certainly score. Penalties are 80 percent in the mind
  15. Apr 26, 2012
    #15

    Sylar Full Member

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    Two germans missed yesterday with pretty poor pens...

    Surprised Khedira didnt fancy one. Maybe he was fifth? But that would mean Ramos took it ahead of him and higuain !
  16. Apr 26, 2012
    #16

    Zen Full Member

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    I love the fact that despite Robben is their designated penalty taker.....they still wouldn't have him in their top 5 for a shootout.

    #germansalwayswin
  17. Apr 26, 2012
    #17

    Cling Bak Hi, I'm Barry Scott

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    You what, sorry?
  18. Apr 26, 2012
    #18

    Zen Full Member

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    "brought up in" i'd assume
  19. Apr 26, 2012
    #19

    NoLogo Full Member

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    I never really buy into these myths but tbh I can't remember seeing our national team lose in a penalty shoot out.

    Neither are there many German clubs I can remember losing in a penalty shootout even though there aren't only German players in those teams.

    It surely is a mental thing and maybe German clubs just prepare their players better on a psychological level for penalty shootouts.
  20. Apr 26, 2012
    #20

    I'm always right Banned

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    To be fair, ze Germans have won 71% of all the penalty shoot-outs the national team has been involved in, England have won 17%. Of course there's something in it, no doubt mental and no doubt confounded for the English by the fact that we're almost set-up/prepared to lose.
  21. Apr 26, 2012
    #21

    Adam-Utd Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid

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    Both lahm and kroos' penalties were weakly struck, i think they just wanted to guarantee it was on target - which is more important than power really.

    Casillas did well too judge where they were going, if he went the wrong way there would be nothing bad said.

    I do think they just seem a more composed bunch of people - iron nerves and trust themselves too hit the target.
  22. Apr 26, 2012
    #22

    green demon Caf Nostradamous 2008

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    And there you have it. There is no physiological reason that the Germans are better penalty takers, but mental preperation and pratice make a huge difference.
  23. Apr 26, 2012
    #23

    Mockney Not the only poster to be named Poster of the Year

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    Football is a confidence game. German players and German teams don't fear shoot out like a lot of other nations do because of their reputation. It's almost a chicken egg situation. The myth has fuelled the actuality.
  24. Apr 26, 2012
    #24

    Moriarty Full Member

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    Wasn't it a German who directed the film 'The Goalkeeper's Fear of the Penalty Kick" or something?
  25. Apr 26, 2012
    #25

    Sarni nice guy, unassuming, objective United fan.

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    I didn't mean literally but with two out of five penalties missed by Bayern, there were plenty of room left for Real to win - they needed to score just three out of five to take it into sudden death and four out of five to simply win it. That's not really that much. In FA Cup final we lost because of one Scholes penalty, the other nine were struck perfectly.
  26. Apr 26, 2012
    #26

    kietotheworld Banned

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    Bayern didn't win last night because they are German, they won because Ramos spooned his kick, and Neuer guessed right on the penalties of a Portuguese and a Brazilian. The idea about Germans is a lazy stereotype, it's normal that across hundreds of penalty shootouts, all teams being equal, one nationality may have a particularly good record, but it's not indicative of some special quality. Saudi Arabia have a 100% record having won 4 shootouts, it doesn't mean they have steel minds or anything like that.

    There was an article from a couple of years ago about strategies with which to take penalties, it attempts to explain the 2008 Final's Shootout with an economist who sent a report to Avram Grant. It might be a load of bollocks, complete overanalysis, but it's better than a national stereotype

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo.../5940896/How-to-take-the-perfect-penalty.html
  27. Apr 26, 2012
    #27

    Mockney Not the only poster to be named Poster of the Year

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    I've never heard of it so I've no idea I'm afraid. Surely keepers have the least to fear from them though? Apart from maybe being hit in the face with a ball.
  28. Apr 26, 2012
    #28

    Raoul Administrator

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    Could be a coincidence as well. Depends on how many penalty shoots there have been. Any number of factors could be important beyond just nationality.
  29. Apr 26, 2012
    #29

    rcoobc Not as crap as eferyone thinks

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    They lost to Czechoslovakia in Euro 1976 on penalties, and wasn't that the first final to go to penalties?

    They made sure that was never going to be the case again.
  30. Apr 26, 2012
    #30

    kietotheworld Banned

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    They've been in 6, won 5. I'm not convinced the sample size is big enough.
  31. Apr 26, 2012
    #31

    Zen Full Member

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    So I had to look it up..and to my astonishment it was made by Wim Wenders, a truly brilliant filmmaker....this film now interests me...
  32. Apr 26, 2012
    #32

    Sarni nice guy, unassuming, objective United fan.

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    I don't know why people ridicule this idea so quickly.

    Penalty taking, like any other area of the game, can be improved by training. If Germans put more effort, they get better results. Same goes for penalty saving - every now and again you stumble across a keeper who's particularly good at it, then you witness a keeper who honestly has no clue and won't save a penalty even if he guesses correctly. Mentality plays a part as well but I don't think it's as important as actual ability to strike the ball into the top corner just like that.
  33. Apr 26, 2012
    #33

    Gio Full Member

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    I don't think England have been helped by the approach of whichever 1990s national team manager who didn't believe in practising penalties, because it was impossible to replicate the pressure situation. True enough, but practice makes permanent and can only improve the quality of penalty that the likes of Southgate, Batty and Ince delivered.
  34. Apr 26, 2012
    #34

    Zen Full Member

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    tbh, you can practice penalties all you want.....if the mentalities not there, its not there, it's basically luck.

    With Germans, it's still a form of luck, but they have the mentality, thus people practically knowing they are going to win in them. And don't kid yourselves, if we are thinking about them being untouchable at pens, so are the players stepping up to take pens...even if they played purely to get to the penalty shootout
  35. Apr 26, 2012
    #35

    B20 Giggsy! Giggsy! Giggsy!

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    Germany have the joint best penalty shoot-out record in football shared with... Liverpool! ;)

    Though we have had twice as many shout-outs over the years to accrue that stat.

    Crashing out against Northampton last year cost us the top spot and having to share the record with the Germans. [​IMG]
  36. Apr 26, 2012
    #36

    jojojo Moderator

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    Nice article. I had no idea that the Watney Cup was the first time it was used in England!

    As for shootouts in general, for the stattos amongst us:
    http://www.penaltyshootouts.co.uk/research.html
    summarises a lot of the research

    Including this on national characteristics looking at the question - are penalty shootouts racist:
    One of Hofstede’s four national cultural dimensions – individualism/collectivism – strongly correlated with nations’ win/loss record (r=-.600, sig= .014, N=16). A regression analysis produced an Rsq of .395 indicating that this national cultural dimension explains almost 40% of the variance in the results of penalty shoot-outs with collectivism being favoured over individualism.

    These results demonstrate a strong national culture bias in favour of collectivist nations. One explanation is that players from individualist nations are more anxious and under greater stress due to the blame they will attract if they miss. Other explanations are associated with support and self-image.

    Given that this national culture dimension does not seem to underpin performance in regular play, the existence of this bias in penalty shoot-outs raises important concerns for their continued use.


    The other stuff on there like, "young players do better," and player who've played more than 90 minutes do worst is interesting as well, but for another thread perhaps.
  37. May 20, 2012
    #37

    kietotheworld Banned

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    So much for Germans and shootouts.
  38. May 20, 2012
    #38

    Sally Cinnamon Full Member

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    "Bastian Schweinsteiger"

    Shit, German name. Shit at pens.
  39. May 20, 2012
    #39

    Silva Sticky tip

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    Had a fiver on them to win the shootout as well, wankers.
  40. May 20, 2012
    #40

    Moultz Full Member

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    To be fair i noticed the mind games played by Neuer as I am a bit of a keeper myself (if that makes a difference) I thought they were spot on.

    First penalty i feel it was all down to him why Mata missed. He looked big. Lots of movement but things like giving the ball to Mata as if to say "your turn" with all those Bayern fans behind the goal.

    Taking a penalty himself. Fair play to who stood up after him and bagged cause that would of sent me a bit... Seeing a keeper cooly slot one home and then you have to face him.. Right in the middle of the shootout as well basically would of turned the result if you ask me.

    Fitting a German would miss the decisive penalty tho.. Whey.

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