Girona FC & City football group

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Ravelation, Feb 16, 2018.

  1. Feb 16, 2018
    #1

    Ravelation Krump at me Bro

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    This is article is quite an interesting read, It details the emergence of Girona in their first ever top flight campaign and the possibility of them actually making European football this season, which would be unprecedented.

    It also covers a few more peculiar points of interest;
    When considering this, the article also points out the rules of UEFA which state, albeit RB Leipzig & Salzburg, the following;
    If this were found to be Illegal, then the City football group would obviously apply pressure towards the management to not finish in a European spot, and the implications of this are scary.
    If it were found to be legal, and Girona somehow ended up in a group over the next couple of seasons with City it would surely be deemed wrong and teams would complain.

    This, coupled by City loaning five players out to Girona does paint the whole ordeal in quite negative light, but the article does give props to Girona and in particular the manager;
    Machin, and his core players, some brought up through the academy.
    They've beaten Madrid, and have had equally impressive results all season considering who they are (no offence).

    I implore you to read the full article and give me your take;
    1. Should Girona be allowed to operate in UEFA if the possibility becomes reality?
    2. Is this type of ownership Illegal or at the very least a conflict of interests?
    Article via SkySports (Adam Bate)
  2. Feb 16, 2018
    #2

    limerickcitykid There once was a kid from Toronto...

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    I'm pretty sure they wouldn't. They just wouldn't be allowed to enter CL/EL and the spot would go to the next place team.
  3. Feb 16, 2018
    #3

    Hephaestus Full Member

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    I doubt UEFA would stop either side competing, if they allowed both Red Bull teams to compete then it's clear the rule is meaningless.

    Find the whole thing of one club owning another top flight club in a top league pretty distasteful. I guess it depends how the local fans feel though, guess if it gets them top-flight football for a while then they might be ok with it.
  4. Feb 16, 2018
    #4

    SuperiorXI Full Member

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    Girona FC is just a tool that can be used to circumnavigate FFP style rules.
  5. Feb 16, 2018
    #5

    Nostradamus Can’t even predict the past

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    I think whenever a club is strongly connected with another club, then they shouldnt be allowed to participate within the same tournament. If a club accepts to become a feeder club, then they also must accept not to be allowed to play CL, if e.g. City and Girona would qualify. All they can dream of should be EL and City shouldnt be allowed to go down from CL to EL, if Girona still participate.

    The RB case shows, that its obviously not that hard to deny some relevant connection though.
  6. Feb 16, 2018
    #6

    daveoliver91 New Member

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    Would love to see Girona in the Champions League just for the fact I am from there, but I know this is not gonna happen.
    Guardiola is from Girona and it makes full sense his family has step up and helped the team.
    Probably we'll never know if that article will be applied cause its IMPOSSIBLE that Girona classifies for the Champions League. The budget is not big enough & their aim is just to stay in the 1st division as many years as they can.

    By the way, if you have a chance, visit Girona. Amazing city to enjoy, with plenty of nice restaurants, close to the coast & with plenty of historical features.
  7. Feb 16, 2018
    #7

    KN5 Full Member

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    If they qualified, Manchester City Group would find a way to bypass it, there are always ways around 'rules' from a legal standpoint and people this wealthy with the resources they have would bypass it for sure.
  8. Feb 16, 2018
    #8

    Nick7 Full Member

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    There isn't a chance in hell UEFA would do anything to stop them playing in Europe. Girona was just a way for City to sweeten up Guardiola so they could sign him as a manager.
  9. Feb 16, 2018
    #9

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

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    Looks like a benefit in kind to Pep. The investment should go on their wage bill for FFP accounting purposes.
  10. Feb 16, 2018
    #10

    Ravelation Krump at me Bro

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    Yeah you're right. But can you imagine being a fan of the club, finishing in a spot that high, only to be told for the benefit of Manchester City you are not allowed to enter into UEFA competitions, I'd be disgusted.
  11. Feb 16, 2018
    #11

    RedTiger Full Member

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    UEFA would pressure City Group to exclude one of their clubs from Euro competition, unfortunately it would be Girona that would sit out. I'm sure the Girona fans won't be too happy about that scenario.

    Remember when there was a conflict of interest when Chelsea were making the CL and Abramovic was found to be the largest sponsor of CSKA? He was just a sponsor and not the owner of CSKA yet UEFA still kicked up a fuss.
  12. Feb 16, 2018
    #12

    The holy trinity 68 The disparager

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    What happens if City have Girona in the same CL group and City need a win to go though? Do Girona get told they must field a weakened side to let City win?

    Conflicts of interest and match fixing could occur. Surely this kind of circumstance is not great for the sport.
  13. Feb 16, 2018
    #13

    Ian Reus Ended 14 years of Grand National sweepstakes

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    Scamchester city.
  14. Feb 16, 2018
    #14

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

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    The Vitesse chairman joked once that thry ‘had a call from London’ when they were close to qualifying for the Champions League.
  15. Feb 16, 2018
    #15

    Afganitia New Member

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    Clearly people here don't watch Girona play. Out of all loans, only Maffeo is playing regularly. If city had so much power over Girona, their loans wouldn't be sitting in the stadium instead of playing. Some of them have already been recalled.
  16. Feb 16, 2018
    #16

    Jazz Full Member

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    This stuff has been known for ages. UEFA obviously don't see a problem with it or else they would have done something already.
    It's at least a conflict of interest, but nothing will be done about it.

    The reality is that people with money have impunity to do as they please irrespective of whether it's legal or not.
  17. Feb 16, 2018
    #17

    Manchester Dan Full Member

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    It’s a funny one really. If both clubs ended up in the CL together, and were genuinely competitive, then CFG should have no preference as a win for either team benefits the group, but I do think the conflict should be avoided. I’d actually agree that both clubs shouldn’t be allowed to play in the same competition. I don’t see a problem with one in CL and one in EL though, just City wouldn’t be allowed to drop down in to the EL if finishing 3rd.

    As an aside, I recall reading that CFG actually agreed a price to buy Girona the season prior to the promotion, no doubt as part of discussions with Pep, and were surprised by it and in turn ended up getting a great deal. Even more so given the performance this year, but the money distribution in La Liga doesn’t benefit the other clubs as it does here in the PL.
  18. Feb 16, 2018
    #18

    Manchester Dan Full Member

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    Yeah, when he leaves with City I’m sure he’ll take the Girona FC ownership with him..!
  19. Feb 16, 2018
    #19

    Afganitia New Member

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    The difference in distribution in la Liga is around 20 % less in a team like Girona compared to the premier league. It's just that Girona went bankrupt in 2012; even in second division was one of the poorest teams.
  20. Feb 16, 2018
    #20

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

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    It's a benefit in kind no matter how you spin it. His brother owns about 45% of the club, as the club grows from City's investment so does his brother's asset wealth. It stinks.

    If you don't see it as a benefit in kind for Pep then stick it on to the agent fee list.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
  21. Feb 16, 2018
    #21

    Manchester Dan Full Member

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    Except it’s not, the law would back it up too. If his brother bought his own stake with his own money, it’s irrelevent. City own the risk/reward of their stake and his brother owns the risk/reward of his own stake. Until that no longer rings true then there is no benefit in kind. Joint investments happen everyday, you’re just talking nonsense because you don’t like it.
  22. Feb 16, 2018
    #22

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

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    It isn't nonsense it a way of paying his brother/agent whilst not having to declare it to UEFA. Benefit in kind perhaps isn't right. It is an extra agent fee.
  23. Feb 16, 2018
    #23

    Snow Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down

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    If it becomes a problem the City owners will just create a shadow company that owns Girona similarly to what Abramovic did with CSKA.
  24. Feb 16, 2018
    #24

    Ravelation Krump at me Bro

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    I did suggest it wasn't one sided, and so did the article. Also, yeah why would anyone on the caf watch Girona matches, unless a regular watcher of La liga.
  25. Feb 16, 2018
    #25

    FootballHQ Full Member

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    Stand to be corrected but I'm not sure any of the loan players have figured that much for Girona.

    Stuani's been brilliant for them this season, great figurehead. Boro should've played him more last season given their lack of goals.
  26. Feb 16, 2018
    #26

    gibers Full Member

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    Think Maffeo has been a regular.
  27. Feb 16, 2018
    #27

    Toad Full Member

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    I can imagine it already... “Such a shame City are facing such a depleted Madrid squad in the Champions League Final. What a horror match for Madrid in their previous league game where Girona broke every Madrid players legs, what a freak accident”.
  28. Feb 16, 2018
    #28

    4bars Full Member

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    Guardiola is from Sanpedor (120 km from Girona and 60 from Barcelona, and 5 km from my hometown :p)

    And yes, Girona is an amazing city to visit and very close to one of the best coasts in Spain (and close to Dali'e museum)
  29. Feb 16, 2018
    #29

    Law's Law Banned

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    Come on mate, you sometimes get sucked in conspiracy theories you go into overkill mode. Just chill.

    1) If you want to pay someone extra money under the radar, you would actually try and go under the radar, not by buying a football club. It’s not quite descreet is it?

    2) City Group already owned or co-owned 5 other clubs, so it’s not a first. I doubt they had this strategy to under report paying someone each time.

    3) Guardiola already complained about the gap between the reserve league and the PL last season, and that the PL could use something like La Liga’s B teams. Buying Girona was to fulfill this vision.

    4) City did not pay Pere Guardiola to buy Girona, they paid €3.5M for their stake, just like he did. It is a business opportunity with common interest. City get to have an affiliated team for players development in their preferred league, all through a bargain deal. How many La Liga clubs you can buy for €7m? Pere also get’s to increase his investment value buy bringing City in. It’s a win win for both.
  30. Feb 16, 2018
    #30

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

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    There are no conspiracy theories lad. Qatar and UAE use PSG and City for soft power purposes. It’s no secret or a theory.

    It’s a way of paying an agent more to curry favour with him. You say yourself in your last point. Conventionally clubs have to pay fees and declare it in their accounts.

    The whole City group project is a hall of mirrors to enable the circumvention of FFP to continue the main project. Like the transfers of Mooy etc.
  31. Feb 16, 2018
    #31

    MV12 New Member

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    Do some serious research on Girona and corruption and it will give you another, let's say 'interesting' perspective.
  32. Feb 16, 2018
    #32

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

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    How serious, do I need to learn Spanish or Catalan?
  33. Feb 16, 2018
    #33

    MV12 New Member

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    No.. but it would help. there is info in English, but not quite as detailed or as much.
  34. Feb 16, 2018
    #34

    Afganitia New Member

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    Wasn't referring to you. Evidently, some people here talk with a lot of confidence, no doubt very sure of their knowledge in the matter. If they didn't watch it regularly, why speak so categorically?
  35. Feb 16, 2018
    #35

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

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    This, along with buying players or shipping them out on loan (Lampard and NYC anyone?).

    They also have the same going with a couple of other clubs. They took over a non-league side here in Uruguay (after failed approaches to Nacional, a traditional top club) and won promotion at a canter all the way to the top division.

    They have lost their two games so far.
  36. Feb 16, 2018
    #36

    Law's Law Banned

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    Are you seriously claiming City bought Girona to under report paying £3M, £5M, or even £10M to an agent?
    They could have paid him that directly without the hassle. It’s not like it’s an uncommon thing to do.

    And you are basically saying City Group spent hundreds of millions on a few clubs just so they can find a way around FFP by selling a Mooy for £10M every 3 years, which does not make sense.

    You state it as a fact when there is no evidence City used it for this purpose. No until this point any way. The plan is to exploit potential in emerging football markets, and to have access to different local talents around the world, which is a legitimate plan. If you have evidence of your accusation, other than “Mooy etc.” why dont you put it forward?
  37. Feb 17, 2018
    #37

    Ravelation Krump at me Bro

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    I see your point, yeah people do have a tendency to do so.
  38. Feb 17, 2018
    #38

    haram Full Member

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    What about the Red Bull sides in Germany and Austria? They both play in Europe.
  39. Feb 17, 2018
    #39

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

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    I'm not claiming that the sole reason they bought Girona was to enrich Pep's brother.

    Evidence? You clearly have evidence that City are using City Group to enrich an agent and they also 'take over the contract' of players in other parts of the group that they then sell on. These are blatant example of them gaming the FFP system through City Group, examples that have come to light through no research.

    No doubt if you actually started digging then you would find a plethora of similar schemes.

    You know this, the other European clubs know this and UEFA knows it. Which is why they are designing new FFP rules to get control of City and PSG.
  40. Feb 17, 2018
    #40

    Law's Law Banned

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    Actually no, there is no evidence City are using the Group to enrich an agent. The only fact is that they partnered someone who is an agent, which is not illegal in Spain. You still didn’t explain why would City not pay the agent like any other agent? An agent fee would be insignificant in the grand picture when it comes to spending, unless you are suggesting City are paying an agent +30M or something.

    More importantly, you say there is evidence of “taking over the contract of players in other parts of the group and selling on”. You are basically referring to Mooy only.

    Well, considering there are no transfer fees between Australian clubs, and that Australian players are generally cheap, how much you think City should have paid for him?

    You are basically saying City are trying to buy cheap players and sell them on for a profit. How dare they.
    Any club can go talent hunting around the world, including United and other big clubs, but it would be more effective if it is institutionalized through local clubs, and this is what is happening with City. You are also implying that it’s easy to find foreign talents and sell them for good profit in Europe, which is not true.

    Basically, your first example is unbacked, let alone illogical, and your 2nd example is that City avoided paying 300K for Mooy.
    You admitted you made no research, and that you are not bothered with doing any further research, yet you want claim your assumptions as facts.