#GlazersOut

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Marcelinho87, Jun 20, 2019.

  1. Jul 5, 2019

    dwd Saturday Night Spies

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    I'm not defending the board but Jose bought Mkhi, Fred, Bailly, Lindelof all for big sums and barely played them.
  2. Jul 5, 2019

    Shamana Full Member

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    They have a manager who's proven he can get the best out of his signings and improve them. Klopp like Fergie has that ability to take player to another level. Pretty much every signing we've made since Fergie has declined massively since their move. You'd think Lukakku would be more prolific in a united team than everton but he's not. Pogba is the bee's knee's for Juventus and France, but wildly inconsistent for us. Personally I don't feel confident that any player we get in will play to their full potential.
  3. Jul 5, 2019

    Rusholme Ruffian Full Member

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    I'm not defending Jose, but I'm not convinced they were all his choices. Mkhi and Fred, in particular, seem incredibly unlike Mourinho type players.
  4. Jul 5, 2019

    oggy boy New Member

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    Not sure exactly why, but I have a feeling with Ole similar to when Moyes was manager. Basically, United is still bad run club.

    If no fan would buy tickets for United matches as a protest against current owners, very soon club would be sold to someone, more competent hopefully, and there would be a start of a new era.

    This process has to start sooner or later, everything between is just a prolonged torture.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 5, 2019
  5. Jul 5, 2019

    Chesterlestreet Man of the crowd

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    No, they haven't. However, we may not be in a situation where simply spending more money than anyone else will get us back on the perch, so there's that.

    However, we aren't discussing whether the Glazers are great owners who will spend whatever it takes to become the best again, even if it means less profit for themselves: what we're discussing is whether they're happy not to compete.

    The Liverpool question isn't a random deflection, it's highly relevant. Liverpool do compete, they've managed to become a genuine contender again. How do we explain this? Is it because their owners are more ambitious - in a strictly football sense - than the Glazers? And, if so, should not this be reflected by how much money has been spent?
  6. Jul 5, 2019

    Eli Zee New Member

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    Agreed... our style of play is woeful 80% of the time.... Hope they improve playing as a team and are more “fluid” in play next season... then maybe players will start to look like their old selves or new and improved
  7. Jul 5, 2019

    Rusholme Ruffian Full Member

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    We're in a situation where our nearest neighbours have the best squad, the best footballing structure, the best manager and a bottomless pit of money - so spending significantly less is unlikely to be helpful.

    Speak for yourself - I (and I think most people) would happily concede that the Glazers need the club to compete - that's pretty obvious, but are we happy with just 'being in the mix'? We're the self-proclaimed 'biggest club in the world', and the most profitable (or thereabouts) - if our owners are not prepared to do what it takes to become the best again then is it any wonder that the fans feel that that isn't acceptable?

    Firstly, Liverpool make a heck of a lot less money than us, so you would expect them to spend less, but secondly they only started to compete when they threw caution to the wind and addressed their areas of weakness by investing a shitload of money in them. Klopp has spent around £400 million in 3 and a half years - that's not chump change.
  8. Jul 5, 2019

    Champ Full Member

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    Don't really understand why people keep pointing out the money that the Glazers have spent as proof they are good owners, or have ambition.
    It's how that money is being spent that's the issue. This club is not being run in a way which befits it's stature.
    The owners appear to be piloting a rudderless ship and throwing crap at a wall hoping some sticks.
    Compared to the clear direction that City, Liverpool, Spurs etc have we are miles away.
    I feel the Glazers are the root cause of the downfall of this club due to the lack of coherent management from the top downwards. They need to go.
  9. Jul 5, 2019

    Crustanoid Full Member

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    Not getting enough scrutiny for what is frankly an unacceptable summer to address what has been going wrong for a good few years. Our ‘rebuild ‘ is a joke and we’re in worse shape than at the the end of last season. Awful
  10. Jul 5, 2019

    AllezLesDiables Full Member

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    TIL that selling equity is somehow a good thing.

    Oh wait ... there very few times where selling equity is considered a good idea.

    It’s not recommended because it can often signal that the owners lack faith in the company or have serious financial issues.

    Why would anyone dilute their ownership stake unless they want to leave a business or were in dire financial straits.

    The exception comes to down to partnerships and being able to leverage equity to deliver on partnership that could yield massive growth.
  11. Jul 5, 2019

    Garethw scored 25-30 goals a season as a right footed RW

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    Looks like it’s going to be the second summer in a row where we’ve spent less than £100 million.
  12. Jul 5, 2019

    AllezLesDiables Full Member

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    It’s like they pay no attention to how they have completed wrecked the Buccaneers in the NFL, which is pretty damn hard to do given how easy it is with the draft to build a successful team.
  13. Jul 5, 2019

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    Why?
  14. Jul 5, 2019

    Rhyme Animal Modmins said "freeze" and I got numb

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    I think he means net spend if we sell Pogba - which will prob be around 150m coming in.

    So, if that happens, they will have literally invested nothing - again.
  15. Jul 5, 2019

    Tincanalley Turns player names into a crappy conversation

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    Good post: point well made
  16. Jul 7, 2019

    Andycoleno9 Full Member

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    Glazers showed last year what they want from this club. Top 4 and nothing else. We finished second and our coach wanted two or 3 more players for attack on City. They refused to buy him players. The fact that they were too expensive or too old is irrelevant to this. We had chance to finish building squad and to go for title but they decided against it. Hiring Ole is another sign that they don't have too much ambition regarding results.
  17. Jul 7, 2019

    Lentwood Full Member

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    We've been through this elsewhere....Liverpool have a brilliant recruitment strategy (for which they were ridiculed at the time) and have been steadily snapping up bargain after bargain since Michael Edwards was appointed

    We did nothing for 6/7yrs and then tried to panic buy "names" with very little thought just as the market went crazy

    It shows both poor business and poor football accumen and reflects poorly again on our owners and senior management team.

    Also, lets not forget Liverpool have just spent £150m on a GK and a CB....they have just been far better at filling the squad on the relative cheap. We seem to have to spend minimum £60m for someone who can kick a football
  18. Jul 7, 2019

    Bestietom Full Member

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    If a club/team needs rebuilding then you have to be prepared to spend. Ithe seems the Glazers don't want to put money into the team this season. If we are depending on selling first then God help us.
  19. Jul 8, 2019

    NinjaZombie Punched the air when Liverpool beat City

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    This.

    Put aside all the talk of the players Mourinho wanted being too old, because that's the line they fed to the fans to cover themselves and we fell for it hook line and sinker.
  20. Jul 8, 2019

    DoomSlayer Full Member

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    I still believe Mourinho was targeting the wrong players and his system wasn't right for our club in the long term, but it's true that the Glazers care mainly about getting that CL spot.

    I fear Ole will get sacked if we don't get at least a 4th place finish or don't win the Europa League as the board and owners care only about the financial or marketing/sponsor hit we will take after being 2 years in a row out of the Champions League.
  21. Jul 8, 2019

    Rood nostradamus like gloater Scout

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    This article is bang on the money ....



    Rage and reality two very different things when it comes to Glazers and Manchester United fans

    https://www.fourfourtwo.com/feature...ry-different-things-when-it-comes-glazers-and

    Something weird happened at the weekend. Manchester United ‘fans’ called a protest against the Glazers, who have owned the club since 2005. It received some national news coverage – yet only 28 people turned up to the demonstration that never was outside Old Trafford.

    It wasn’t a surprise, since it showed the disconnect between social media and real life. Online, a #glazersout hashtag was trending as if there was a groundswell of support. Yet on the ground, nobody knew anyone with much credibility playing any part in it.......
  22. Jul 8, 2019

    Tom Van Persie No relation

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    Andy Mitten is spot on. Well written article.
  23. Jul 8, 2019

    Chesterlestreet Man of the crowd

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    Sure, I don't disagree.

    Again, the question is whether our owners are perfectly happy not to challenge for the biggest prizes (which is what some claim explicitly).

    We could have done what Liverpool have done - right? Hired the right people and backed up the football side within reason. We haven't done done that, as is painfully clear - but that looks much more like incompetence than a basic unwillingness to invest.

    We've spent more than Liverpool, that's the bottom line. It would be insane, tragic, hysterically comical...take your pick, if this spending was sanctioned by owners whose level of ambition is actually below that of Liverpool's owners.
  24. Jul 8, 2019

    Mark1361 New Member

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    It does not matter who is managing the team if Ed & the Glazers do not back them in the market until they get it right nothing going to change.

    Joes was never backed in the market last season, He requested a CD, the club refused. Now 12 months on we try to buy the same CD that Joes ask for. The only transfer that matter now more then anything should be . Breaking News Glazers have agreed the sale of Manchester United.
    Until this happens we will never regain top spot in EPL or evn come close to winning CL again. Manchester United are no longer a winning club they just a money making club for the Glazers.

    I am also 100% sure if we had an owner like city, Jose would still be in charge and we would be much closer to city.
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  25. Jul 8, 2019

    7even Resident moaner, hypocrite and moron

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    The club is starting to lose their “why”.

    Example.
    Why do I use Apple products? Why do I drive BMW? I’m conservative. Why? Why do I support Manchester United? Indirect or directly I had answers to all these questions before I made up my mind.

    Ten years ago the United nation where all more or less on the same page. Our identity was crystal clear. Nobody questioned our goals and our vision how to play football was easy to define. The United way.

    Today it’s different. Do we have a specific goal for the future? Saying getting better don’t install me with passion. What is our vision to get there? Working harder or playing counter attack isn’t in my mind a vision.

    We need to find our identity. Our “why”.

    As long as we don’t have a “why” who’s sexy and attractive enough it will be difficult to significantly improve our long term results. We need a why to attract new players and young supporters. Long time ago Sir Alex gave the United nation a specific “why”.

    Who will be the next manager to give us a “why” that makes us excited and full of passion?
  26. Jul 8, 2019

    Rusholme Ruffian Full Member

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    I'm absolutely certain our owners level of ambition is below that of Liverpool's owners. We generate far more money than Liverpool - you would expect them to spend less than us - and their wage bill is a higher proportion of their income. When they identified their areas of weakness they broke the world records for a centre back and goalkeeper. Liverpool have shown that with a great manager and great player recruitment it's just about possible to match Manchester City, but a) we haven't appointed a 'great' manager and b) since last summer our recruitment spend has been way below what is needed to bridge a 20 and then 30 point gap. And as for this new direction of 'buy them young and hungry', can anyone say with any certainty that this isn't just spin - and the actual motivation is to 'buy them cheap(er) and with lower wages'?
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  27. Jul 8, 2019

    thegregster Harbinger of new information

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    Judging the Glazers just on transfer spent is a mistake.

    You have to look at the capital side of things as well.

    We have spent virtually nothing on the capital side of things since they took over.
  28. Jul 8, 2019

    Andycoleno9 Full Member

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    How much money we and other clubs invest comparing with club's income?
  29. Jul 8, 2019

    imamuppet New Member

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    ^^^^^
    Thats the problem, they dont invest!

    Manchester United, invest, as the money is being made my Manchester United.

    They have not put a penny of their own money into our club.

    All they have done is taken money.

    Thats my main gripe.

    Leechers, thats all they are ..............
  30. Jul 8, 2019

    Offsideagain Full Member

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    Spot on. Woodward is the Banker that got the loan for the Glazers to buy the club and subsequently refinance it every few years. Whilst the Glazers are getting regular cheques from the club via merchandise and sponsors, Woodward will stay and therefore the Glazers will stay. He (Woodward) is shitting bricks that a Director of Football may be appointed as that will take away some of his power and expose his naivety when it comes to transfers. It isn’t so much how much you spend than how much quality you get for the money. I mean, Maguire for £80m?. He’s no Van Dirk and could end up a flop. Hypothetical question, if the Glazers put United up for sale and that would be for $5bn minimum, who would buy it? Some Sheik? Jim Ratcliffe? Who?
  31. Jul 8, 2019

    Escobar Poster originally known as Michel04

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    And yet still refuse to set up the club professionally. It is so rotten
  32. Jul 8, 2019

    Valar Morghulis Full Member

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    I'd say just the Saudis would be crazy enough to pay that, however even they have apparently dropped their interest.
  33. Jul 8, 2019

    Wumminator The Special One!

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    People NEED to read this article. A fantastic piece
  34. Jul 8, 2019

    Tincanalley Turns player names into a crappy conversation

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    And let me tell you, that no one, not Pep, not Zidane, not SAF could do anything with this club as it is structured; Woody the ‘football expert’ and the Glazer family in the boardroom with their greasy fingers on the purse strings.

    OGS, i fear, is drinking from a poisoned chalice. #glazersout #woodwardout
  35. Jul 8, 2019

    clarkydaz Full Member

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    Funny you mention this, I was thinking about the moaning we should have gone for Zidane, and not Ole. Like Zidane would come here and work for the Glazers and woodward. Look at what he demanded from Madrid, and they are doing his bidding
  36. Jul 8, 2019

    Jericholyte2 Full Member

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    I’m trying to find the page that had it but there was a stat from the last three seasons of spending compared to turnover. Don’t know if anyone else remembers where to find this.....

    Everton topped it with nearly 50%, City and Liverpool were low 40’s high 30’s with arsenal just under that. Tottenham (including the 18 months of no purchases) were at 22% whilst United were at 19%.

    Truly pathetic numbers!
  37. Jul 8, 2019

    ZeMario New Member

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    At this point I’d welcome the Saudi’s.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 8, 2019
  38. Jul 8, 2019

    Andycoleno9 Full Member

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    Yes, i saw it also but can't find it. I am not sure what thread that was
  39. Jul 9, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    Read Fergie's books mate, enough in there that reinforces the statement of us not having a functional scouting department. He relied heavily on his brothers input and if his brother gave a resounding verdict it was generally followed through on, in particular there is a chapter about Anderson / Nani I think it is where this happened.

    Post Fergie, are you suggesting our scouting has been brilliant? What about Jose hiring his own head of scouting in Ribalta who quit a year later? We've tried various things in the post Fergie years in regards to scouting clearly and further to that LVG's recent interview also supported this claim that we've gone in the opposite direction now of possibly having too many scouts.

    Ferguson was all encompassing and done a variety of roles during his time here, he relied upon a close knit group of trust contacts and comparing that to modernized clubs like City we fell behind in that respect.

    Mate what utter waffle is this?

    This myth has been put to bed, none of the top 6 clubs have a CEO who is steeped in Football knowledge..none! They are all business men with experience in finance / accounting and generally worked as CEO previously in different industries. The closest any of them have come is Liverpool's CEO when he worked for Reebok!

    It's not even a support / defense of Woodward just highlighting the stupidity that a CEO has to be a football man when that narrative is so utterly ridiculous.

    I'm wasting my time trying to explain finance to you clearly, read up on their finances and they've £300m in deferred payments, basically its debt. They owe £300m and kicked that debt down the road but it has to be paid next summer.

    FFP noose is slowly tightening around their neck and they are being investigated...sure lets just ignore it hey ;)

    Yeah, cause the last one went so well.

    Already addressed this previously, all clubs saw increases in ticket prices...ALL. It isn't exclusive to United.

    We are however the only club rolling out an 8 year price freeze on tickets currently.

    In the post Fergie years we've only been outspent by PSG and Real mate, we can't sulk about lack of investment really.

    In terms of wage bill its now 3rd highest in world football, the on field results don't match that investment so how are the board failing the manager in terms of investment?

    Fact is managers have failed to deliver thus far and get a return on a huge investment.
  40. Jul 9, 2019

    Rood nostradamus like gloater Scout

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    Yep - plus I dont know if the official MUST statement about all this has been posted?
    Also gives a bit of a reality check to all this social media stuff, after all this and the Mitten article reflect more of the opinions of matchgoers and those who have followed the history of our ownership for decades
    https://www.imust.org.uk/Blog/Entry/glazersout-protests

    Over the last few weeks the rumbling discontent of United fans at the malaise enveloping the Club has emerged as a new social media protest, particularly on Twitter using the #GlazersOut hashtag. This article #GlazersOut - Everything you NEED to know by Michael Tunstall @TFWriter has proved a particularly popular explanation.

    While these are grass roots independent fan campaigns rather than MUST initiatives we all share the frustration that has brought us to this point. Of course MUST led the campaign against the Glazer takeover from 2004. Following the takeover in 2005 the new regime cut off all official dialogue with MUST leaving protest as our only mechanism to express discontent and try to promote a change in ownership. No doubt the continued protests led to that reopening of dialogue, and indeed the freezing of ticket prices ever since, as well as the rolling back of some other detrimental initiatives we opposed at that time.

    So while we do have a dialogue at board level which is not available to others we respect the right of all fans to peaceful protest as long as it does not impact on the manager and team. Perhaps it is worth stating though, we've never met the Glazers, despite some conspiracy theorists' deliberate attempts to misrepresent us as somehow "in bed" with them! Furthermore we have seen positive results from that dialogue, primarily for match going fans, but it is fair to say we don't feel dialogue has delivered enough. This is particularly true on moves to promote growth in supporter share ownership which we feel is key to an optimum ownership model for our Club and could well be viewed as mutually beneficial. So, if there is resistance to this, it is puzzling. If the MUFC board want to argue that dialogue is more productive than protest then now would be a good time for them to demonstrate this!

    So while we continue to pursue our current approach, and support the right of fans to protest, we must all guard against division in our fanbase as that weakens the collective fan position and only serves those who do not share our objectives or those individuals who appear to have their own agendas to exploit division for some unclear motivation.

    MUST continued to lead the protest campaign until support from the wider fanbase had diminished to, literally, single figures in the years that followed the 2010 Green & Gold campaign.
    We produce a report a year later in 2011 and the key lesson from that campaign was
    "The driver of our eventual success is not the depth of the problem, but the credibility of the solution"

    In other words - it isn't how bad the situation is with the Glazers that motivates people - it is the belief that there is a mechanism in place which will provide a real opportunity to change the situation for the better. We have seen protests in various forms, from LUHG stickers, to flash mobs and marches, to the formation of a new football club in FC United. They all played a role to maintain pressure but they cannot provide a complete solution to our problem as history has amply demonstrated.

    We get criticised by some (although often people who are simply hostile to us) for relentlessly pursuing membership growth but there is a very important reason for this and it isn't about generating funds for MUST itself, although that is essential too of course. It is about having the sort of numbers required to make a serious impact and we're really talking 7 figures rather than 6 hence the oft used figure of 1 million+.
    That's why in 2010 we stopped promoting paid membership and purely pushed for people to sign up as free e-members. That is as important now as it was then but we can lead the horse to water but we can't make it drink. So now is a good time to remind all our members (Full, Match Going or Free "Lite" members) that building the mass membership is crucial - please encourage supporters to join us here: www.imust.org.uk/join

    These clips below, also from the same 2011 report, show our key conclusions. Some parts of that report have aged better than others but the key conclusions have stood up pretty well:

    So this analysis above formed our approach from 2011 onwards

    So of course we welcome views of all supporters but we aren't going to be deflected from pursuing the policies we believe best serve our objectives and those more interested in point scoring and negativity are part of the problem and will be ignored and/or blocked. Those with differing views on tactics are welcome but have to accept that, while we will listen with genuine openness, it may be that we don't all reach the same conclusion. Let's concentrate on the areas of agreement rather than difference

    IN CONCLUSION
    Yes
    we are publicising the current protests to our members


    No we aren't the instigators but we respect the right of those who are, to pursue the tactics they wish to, and we all share the same long term desire to see a better Manchester United ownership model


    Yes we are continuing our approach of dialogue with the board, although we continue to review its effectiveness, as well as our long term goal of an optimum ownership model including majority supporter ownership. That requires membership growth, both free Lite and Full Membership so we encourage all United fans who want to influence the future of the club, whether you're a protestor or not, to join us and help us reach 1 million+ of our huge global fanbase.

    https://www.imust.org.uk/Blog/Entry/glazersout-protests
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019