Grant Holt would have scored 30 goals in 2017-18 with the service Ronaldo had at Real Madrid

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Hound Dog, Sep 1, 2018.

  1. Sep 1, 2018
    #1

    Hound Dog Full Member

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    I've been of the opinion for several years that Ronaldo is not nearly as good as he is made up to be and that he has gained exaggerated stats and benefited from :

    1. Having the entire Real Madrid team work for him
    2. Tirelessly trying to score more even when his side 4:0, 5:0 up etc
    3. Generally, being more concerned with scoring then with the team's results. Just remember the final moments of the previous CL final or the extra-time of the first CL final vs Atletico.
    4. The gap between the biggest of clubs and the rest increasing, allowing their top players (if egotistical like Ronaldo) to set unprecedented numbers.
    5. A moment of brilliance that gets hyped up to ridiculous levels (ie the bicycle kick against Juventus - a move that most professional players can produce. But when Mexes does it, no one cares).

    I am not surprised to see Real continue to score for fun without him and him struggle at Juventus. Of course, many will say that it is early in the season... And I agree, time will tell. However, I am certain that his departure will not really be felt and will be shocked if he manages to score more than 20 league goals for Juventus, I reckon he will score 10-15. I repeat, only time will tell who is right.

    Pretty much everyone agrees that Ronaldo's goals over time has evolved in such a way that he offers goals and not much else. But is he as good at it as lauded, or has he benefited from the service?

    There was an interesting thread over here a few years ago, was titled something like "How many goals would you score for United?".

    Instead of considering replacing Ronaldo with yourself, let's narrow the gap in skill and imagine replacing Ronaldo with an average striker, ie, a prime Grant Holt (apologize to those of you who feel that they are more skilled at football than the Norwich legend).

    Here is a video of all of Ronaldo's goals from last season:



    I will consider his goals for Real Madrid only, so no Portugal.

    I feel it would be unreasonable to expect prime Holt to score the following goals (using the numeration from the video):
    1, 8, 14, 16, 17, 20, 26, 30, 31, 33, 36, 44, 45 - a total of 13 goals

    And this is while trying to be harsh.

    Since Ronaldo scored 43 goals for Madrid last season, I henceforth claim that a prime Holt would have scored, give or take, around 30 last season under the same conditions.

    My point?

    This is the way football is heading. Ronaldo and Messi are not the freaks that they are made up to be. They are the best players of today, sure, but are not more dominant than top players of yesteryear. What changed is that the machinery supporting them is much better than ever before, as will become evident once they retire and others come to replace them - providing that they have the same level of egotism and the desire to build up their stats.
  2. Sep 1, 2018
    #2

    Ronaldo's Mum Eh? Ronaldo is shite

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    He's the Greatest Player of All Time.
  3. Sep 1, 2018
    #3

    Wayne's World Full Member

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    I stopped reading when you said Grant Holt.....
  4. Sep 1, 2018
    #4

    Snafu17 Full Member

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    You're wrong.
  5. Sep 1, 2018
    #5

    Jacko21 Full Member

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    This is going to be a bruising experience for you...
  6. Sep 1, 2018
    #6

    SwansonsTache incontinent sexual deviant & German sausage lover

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    They get afforded the luxury of an entire attack consisting of other worldies supporting them due to their extreme capabilities.

    So in conclusion, yes they are exceptional.
  7. Sep 1, 2018
    #7

    altodevil86 Full Member

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    You're not wrong with most of your argument. But the title discredits it all.
  8. Sep 1, 2018
    #8

    Hernandez - BFA The Way to Fly

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    Think you misread the title. This is about Ronaldo.
  9. Sep 1, 2018
    #9

    altodevil86 Full Member

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    Probably the most embarrassing part of this forum are the Ronaldo blowhards.
  10. Sep 1, 2018
    #10

    Mainoldo Full Member

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    Before them your so called greats had 3 seasons of peak years those two have around 10. Your argument is pointless but nice try.

    We scored a lot of goals without Ronaldo too but name me someone who was of his level.
  11. Sep 1, 2018
    #11

    Hound Dog Full Member

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    I did not argue with the notion that him and Messi are the best players of today.

    Edit: Actually, of the last decade on aggregate. I think that on current ability they are no longer clearly the best two.
  12. Sep 1, 2018
    #12

    FootballHQ Full Member

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    Can I apologize to our Spanish and other foreign posters who follow Real for the state of this thread....:lol:
  13. Sep 1, 2018
    #13

    EasyE New Member

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    Watch his performance for Portugal against Spain. Absolutely more than just a 'finisher' - even at his ripe old age. The epitome of a captain's performance. I don't think Grant Holt would of come on as a sub against Bolton all those years ago with such an impression, neither would he of burst the net against Porto or Arsenal from 40 yards. He's broken records everywhere, regardless of the team mates surrounding him. One of the GOATs.
  14. Sep 1, 2018
    #14

    Loublaze ATLien

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    This is not the Pele thread
  15. Sep 1, 2018
    #15

    tomaldinho1 Full Member

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    Put a sock in this thread...

    Over 100 assist for RM alone
  16. Sep 1, 2018
    #16

    harms Way Staff

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    A point of Benzema scoring 40 goals last season would've been received much better.
  17. Sep 1, 2018
    #17

    Hound Dog Full Member

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    Once again, my point was not that Holt is as good as Ronaldo, I'm not mad.

    This thread is about the unprecedented numbers Ronaldo and Messi have been posting.

    Had Messi left Barca this summer this thread could have been named "David Nugent would have scored xx goals for Barcelona..."
  18. Sep 1, 2018
    #18

    rcoobc Not as crap as eferyone thinks

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    Ronaldo doesn't produce as much as he did in his United years, but he does a lot for other players because...

    He's Ronaldo. The opposition will spend most of the game trying to upset him and he still gets 40-60 goals a season.

    It helps that he played for Real Madrid making concentrating on only upsetting him less viable, but replace him with Grant Holt and not only would you lose 10-20 goals in that position but another 10 from his contribution
  19. Sep 1, 2018
    #19

    adexkola Arsenal supporter

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    *brings popcorn, a Snapple, some Bacardi and a fat rolled joint*
  20. Sep 1, 2018
    #20

    James Peril Banned

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    Ridiculous - I don’t understand why you’ve put so much energy into this nonsense. The guy scored over 30 league goals in England, and he wasn’t even a striker. Scoring goals is difficult, even at lower levels it’s hard to keep it going and not least score more than one in the same game. Consistently scoring hat-tricks isn’t because he is having it easy, it’s down to him. Do you remember our last hat-trick? I sure as hell don’t. Van Persie like five years ago? Berbatov before that?

    The guy has perfected the art of scoring, the technique inside the box and the hunger to score after scoring already. Free-kicks, penalties, heading, tap-ins, heels, knees, shots, you name it, he’s done it. He is 33 now, not 25 and in his physical prime - Juventus is his retirement home and you judge him after three games? Let’s see who’s having the last laugh after 38 games.

    Him and Messi have been a climate change to the modern version of this sport, just give them the respect they deserve. He has 85 goals for Portugal as well, being the only player to have scored in four Championships in a row.
  21. Sep 1, 2018
    #21

    Vernon Philander Full Member

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    Even the "easy" ones you're trying to give Grant Holt - you're making the huge assumption that Grant Holt can read the game and make the same decisive movements as Ronaldo.
  22. Sep 1, 2018
    #22

    Phil Full Member

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    feck sake
  23. Sep 1, 2018
    #23

    Name Changed weso26

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  24. Sep 1, 2018
    #24

    EasyE New Member

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    Simply, no, and could Nugent add the other factors that said player covets? I think a better angle would be this : could Grant Holt perform the role Karim Benzema has provided to Madrid / Ronaldo all these years? I.e. the foil to the quality. Not that I'm saying he isn't a top player.
  25. Sep 1, 2018
    #25

    lsd Full Member

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    This is a thread seriously ?
  26. Sep 1, 2018
    #26

    R.N7 Such tagline. Wow!

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    Bramble > Zidane
  27. Sep 1, 2018
    #27

    Name Changed weso26

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    You are just as embarrassing from reading this thread.
  28. Sep 1, 2018
    #28

    Name Changed weso26

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    Apparently so.
  29. Sep 1, 2018
    #29

    Mainoldo Full Member

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    Rashford actually lol. Thought I’d kindly remind people how good he’s got abit of talent.
  30. Sep 1, 2018
    #30

    Cait Sith Full Member

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    You forgot to mention that he is going to win the Ballon d'Or for performing in 3 games last season.

    1 great performance against PSG home, 1 against Juventus away and 1 great group stage performance against Spain (helped by De Gea).

    Had 4 league goals from August - Dezember for Real and was a non-factor in CL quarter final return leg, both CL semi games and the CL final as well as all Portugal games bar Spain.
  31. Sep 1, 2018
    #31

    11101 Full Member

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    I agree with you that Messi and Ronaldo are hyped to the heavens and are merely once in a generation players, not the greatest in history.

    Still, you're saying an average player could do what they do if they had that team set up around them. The team is set up around them precisely because they are that good. Most of the goals you referenced don't go in not because Grant Holt cant finish them, but because Grant Holt would never have gotten into that position in the first place.
  32. Sep 1, 2018
    #32

    Kostur Full Member

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    Apart from obviously the whole thread in itself being fecking idiotic, this one point for some reason managed to get me to respond to it because it's so stupid. Mexes has done it against a fecking Anderlecht in the group stages, and it still has gotten plenty of attention from the neutrals, pundits and so on. Ronaldo has done it in quarters, against Juve, against one of the best goalkeepers in history, at higher height, with defenders closer to him. See the difference? In fact, if the GK for Anderlecht had better movement he could've saved Mexes' goal.
  33. Sep 1, 2018
    #33

    Hound Dog Full Member

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    Calm down, bud. I knew this would wind people up but you are supposed to be among the more reasonable posters here.

    Regarding your it was the CL quarters argument, I dont buy it. A spade is a spade.

    Scoring that penalty in the return leg was more difficult in a CL quarter than in a league game due to the pressure involved.

    But is there any pressure when performing a bicycle kick? So how exactly does it being a CL qf matter?

    P.S. I pulled the Mexes example out of my ass, dont even clearly remember the goal. My point was that people were reacting as if they never saw a bicycle kick
  34. Sep 1, 2018
    #34

    Schneckerl Full Member

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    Yeah Ronaldo's or Messi's goal numbers are a tad exaggerated due to circumstances compared to greats who played in the 80s-early 00s, but they still did it for a decade which is the big differences. Usually players had like what 3-5 top, top class seasons?

    I could see someone like Brazilian Ronaldo or van Basten having similar numbers in a team that creates so many chances, but just not the longevity.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2018
  35. Sep 1, 2018
    #35

    100 binary bot

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    Not fit to lace Grant's boots.

    Lee that is.
  36. Sep 1, 2018
    #36

    Hugh Jass Full Member

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    Jesus.
  37. Sep 1, 2018
    #37

    sullydnl Ross Kemp's caf ID

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    At last someone with the bottle to say what we've all been thinking.
  38. Sep 1, 2018
    #38

    Hound Dog Full Member

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    Dont get me started on the Spain game. He scored his annual free kick and suddenly he's Juninho.

    But how would Juventus sell 20 million shirts without the hype?
  39. Sep 1, 2018
    #39

    Kostur Full Member

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    Sorry if I sound like a dick but I obviously am one.

    Nah, there's a difference in how you play and what you call pull off in a group stages where you can still progress in a group stages and where you're in a two-legged match, just like there's a difference in what a player would try when you're 4-0 up and 1-0 up. Most of the time people would try to somehow trap the ball with the chest, try to bring it down somehow, he's had the audacity to try the bicycle kick, just like Rooney had against City.

    People were wanking over the bicycles, and rightfully so imo, of him and Bayol because Madrid were on course of doing something that hasn't been done before, everything then will get magnified due to that reason purely, and imo again, deservedly so. I could never bring myself to wank half as much over Ronaldo as some here but him and Messi undoubtedly deserve to be amongst the best evers, and no Holts or Heskeys could repeat their feats as they wouldn't even be at those teams in the first place and, easily forgotten, it's no coincidence Messi and Ronaldo actually are.
  40. Sep 1, 2018
    #40

    InLevyITrust Full Member

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    I get warnings for using text speak but this horse shit thread is
    allowed to fly? Mate have you played football before?