Have we actually progressed in terms of performances since LVG

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by padzilla, Feb 22, 2018.

  1. Feb 22, 2018
    #1

    padzilla Hipster

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    I'm struggling to see any type of genuine progress since LVG left - we have signed bigger names in the transfer window. The Europa League victory is a plus but that was basically shooting fish in a barrel and a means to an end and the League Cup was won by hanging on against Southampton. Our performances away from home in big games has actually regressed.
  2. Feb 22, 2018
    #2

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Yes.

    /thread
  3. Feb 22, 2018
    #3

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

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    And you couldn't find an existing thread to say that?
  4. Feb 22, 2018
    #4

    Borden Full Member

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    No. We have better players, but that's it. And we look worse in the big games.
  5. Feb 22, 2018
    #5

    Barca84 Full Member

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    People are switching off watching United in droves. We are playing horribly. I wouldn't cross the fecking road to watch this lot.

    Our league position currently covers a multitude of sins. The truth is there's a sense we're going backwards fast and are now very much in a scrap for top four.
  6. Feb 22, 2018
    #6

    NinjaFletch Full Member

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    Indeed.

    Anyone that argues otherwise has the memory of a goldfish.

    I mean ffs we've demonstrably improved from last season to this one. Have people really forgotten the frustrating 0-0 home draws where we couldn't hit a cow's arse with a banjo.
  7. Feb 22, 2018
    #7

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Can you ask them to close the door behind them?
  8. Feb 22, 2018
    #8

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    And - bad as it was - last season was still an improvement on life under LvG!
  9. Feb 22, 2018
    #9

    Donnie Brasco Banned

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    Basically this, and they can take all those Pochettino, Klopp, Pep, Tuchel lovers and "entertainers" with them.
  10. Feb 22, 2018
    #10

    NinjaFletch Full Member

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    Exactly.
  11. Feb 22, 2018
    #11

    MiceOnMeth New Member

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    We look worse in big games because all the big teams have improved since LVGs time.
  12. Feb 22, 2018
    #12

    KirkDuyt Full Member

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    Some of the games this season compete with the worst of em, but generally, yes, massive improvement. Just lacking consistency is all.
  13. Feb 22, 2018
    #13

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Precisely. Which explains why we did so poorly in Europe despite supposedly being capable of beating "big teams" domestically.

    Additional evidence being the record of the other English "big teams" in Europe at the time.
  14. Feb 22, 2018
    #14

    rocks13 Banned

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    No, we saw one as recently as the 30th December against Southampton.
  15. Feb 22, 2018
    #15

    shaky Full Member

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    Finding negatives in our 2 trophy wins last season? that's the Caf spirit.
  16. Feb 22, 2018
    #16

    Barca84 Full Member

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    They don't need asking.
  17. Feb 22, 2018
    #17

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Well if they could shut the feck up - instead of hollering back through a closed door- that would be just great.
  18. Feb 22, 2018
    #18

    Oscie Full Member

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    2nd in the table, a home game away from the quarter finals of the Champions League. Are we really any better than the time we finished 5th in the table, was knocked out of the CL group stage and failed to qualify for the competition the following season?

    I don't know. Seems like a close one to me.
  19. Feb 22, 2018
    #19

    Ish Lights on for Luke

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    :lol:
  20. Feb 22, 2018
    #20

    careca07 New Member

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    I wanted Jose in when Fergie left - I still think the fact he didn't get the job is one of the worst sporting and business decisions in history. Cost us hundreds of millions of pounds and God knows what else. People forget just how much of an aura we had around us as a team and club after twenty or so years of Fergie's success. That was undone in about 18 months, records falling left right and centre.

    So I was really happy when he finally got it after the Moyes and LVG debacles and the two trophies he won last year were very positive initial signs. I have to admit this season is very concerning though. I still feel the first team needs huge investment, and I mean massive investment especially at today's prices. We also don't seem to have any kind of coherent style (as opposed to the rest of the top six) and we also have a big issue with Pogba. Our full backs, centre backs and keeper (glory be to DDG) have all been in the team since 2011. Is it all Jose's fault? I don't know. I think he has a winning mentality which is great, and he has restored some of Old Trafford's former fortress status. But I hate watching us giving other teams the majority of possession, that goes against the United I grew up with. We were always such a joy to watch with flying wingers, deadly strikers, a midfield with a mix of toughness and skill and Schmeichel's quick long throws.

    Is it as bad as under LVG? Jesus Christ no. I've been watching United for 30 years and that football was as eye-gougingly dull as anything I've ever witnessed, even in some of our historically bad performances. It might be a cliche to throw money at a problem but I stand by the feeling that in order to compete with Europe's best we need to upgrade significantly on many areas of our first XI - to hear the manager talk about signing 'one or two' players is a big worry. We won't win the league if that's what happens. We need to spend, then get the manager to coach that side to the best of his abilities. Whether or not his tried-and-tested style is entertaining enough full stop is another debate.
  21. Feb 22, 2018
    #21

    Barca84 Full Member

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    Odd how often some feel the need to shut down the opinions of others.

    Our progress, or lack of it, is up for debate. So it's getting debated in this thread. Bail out if it pisses you off?
  22. Feb 22, 2018
    #22

    MadDogg Full Member

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    Of course we have. We're playing like shit right now which is colouring the views on it, but overall our performances over the last two years under Mourinho are lightyears ahead of our two years under LVG.

    That's not to say we've been brilliant. Of course not, and I had hoped we'd be currently better and I certainly hope we improve further. But we've obviously improved quite a bit since LVG's tenure, unless you're only focusing on our performances over the last few weeks.
  23. Feb 22, 2018
    #23

    Thisistheone Full Member

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    Yes.
  24. Feb 22, 2018
    #24

    NinjaFletch Full Member

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    Yes and we had them virtually every other week last season.

    No one's arguing this team is perfect, but it takes a special kind of selective memory to argue that there has been no positive improvement since last season. That it has been an improvement from Van Gaal's last season has been so obvious that I can only assume the fact this is even a question shows that that season was so tedious that people have mentally blocked it out.
  25. Feb 22, 2018
    #25

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    I'm specifically talking about the people who are - according to you - "switching off watching United". Why on earth would anyone want to listen to opinions from people who are no longer watching the team?
  26. Feb 22, 2018
    #26

    FlawlessThaw most 'know it all' poster

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    We've definitely improved since LVG, I mean the football was absolutely atrocious under him. There's definitely a case that we haven't improved as much as we should have compared to other teams though but considering the competition at the time we were dire under LVG.

    The only reason you would say otherwise is really if you enjoyed LVG's style of play or you have an axe to grind with Mourinho.
  27. Feb 22, 2018
    #27

    L1nk Full Member

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    Nope. In terms of results against minnows, yes, in terms of results against big teams? No. We played more as a team under LVG and you could clearly see the stamp of LVG in the way we played, sure at often times it was turgid boring crap and side to side passing but we actually played like a team, an LVG team. Now what? Can you say we play like a Mourinho of old team? No, infact rather than play as a team we often times look like we play as strangers.

    So, if you're asking has our play reached another level under Mourinho, the answer is no. We just have better individual quality on the pitch and sometimes it shines and we got a bit better at dispatching teams we should be dispatching on the regular anyway. But playing together as a team, a cohesive unit? Not at all.
  28. Feb 22, 2018
    #28

    Oscie Full Member

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    I think it's quite a modern thing. Apologies for the generalisation here but there does seem to be an awful lot of mid-2000s football fans who think because they noticed Barcelona and Messi were quite good that they consider themselves some kind of aficionados who view football not as a sport but as a beauty contest and anything doesn't align with their version of footballing beauty is dismissed. It isn't about winning or progressing, it's about looking pretty doing it whatever it is we do. Everyone wants entertaining football but there's a growing intolerance for anything else that i do think is quite odd. Especially for those of us who remember how lauded the solid and defensive Italian football was in the 90s.
  29. Feb 22, 2018
    #29

    Barca84 Full Member

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    To find out why people don't want to watch anymore? Or is it preferable to sit an echo chamber? Are views of fans only valid if they make themselves sit through shit on a stick football week in week out in order to qualify?

    Most of us dump blind following of our football teams before we can grow a proper beard.
  30. Feb 22, 2018
    #30

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    I guess that's one way to describe all the fair-weather fans who stop watching the team the moment it hits a *rough patch...



    *second in league, FA Cup QF etc
  31. Feb 22, 2018
    #31

    Barca84 Full Member

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    I think there's always been a particular clamour for attacking football at United and more so than most clubs. And it's perfectly reasonable to want to be entertained.
  32. Feb 22, 2018
    #32

    Barca84 Full Member

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    Some may have been watching since before you were thought of. And not just on a stream in their bedroom.
  33. Feb 22, 2018
    #33

    Idxomer New Member

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    No, and that's despite having a much better squad than LVG. I think you'll find a big shift of opinions on Jose's reign once he leaves.
  34. Feb 22, 2018
    #34

    Siorac Full Member

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    Van Gaal won a trophy the day before he was sacked. Do you think 2015/16 was a good season? After all, we won a trophy!
  35. Feb 22, 2018
    #35

    shaky Full Member

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    Do you remember LVG's last season? Do you remember the December when we managed only 3 points out of 18 against Bournemouth, Norwich, Stoke, Leicester, West Ham & Chelsea?
  36. Feb 22, 2018
    #36

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    I seriously doubt anyone who's been watching the team that long would throw their toys out the pram so readily.
  37. Feb 22, 2018
    #37

    shaky Full Member

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    It wasn't a good season but picking holes in the FA Cup win isn't something I'd do.
  38. Feb 22, 2018
    #38

    Jim Beam Full Member

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    We absolutely did. On the other hand, we're in a bad form with some really dire performances in the last few games while having issues with our record buying and not getting nearly enough of our new world-class signing, so it taints that progress for some people. And make people worry for the rest of the season.

    But, the progress, in general, has been made.
  39. Feb 22, 2018
    #39

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    Without any doubt.

    We went nearly half a season or a 3/4th season without scoring a goal in first half wasn't it? It was painful to watch Van Gaal's second season.
  40. Feb 22, 2018
    #40

    Barca84 Full Member

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    Based on what? My first game was 1971. I'm starting to not watch United because it's tedious crap and there's nothing "readily" about that. It's an ongoing process and it pisses me off and to turn that shit off, or not go the game, is a perfectly reasonable, informed and adult decision to make when the football is so fecking wank.

    Fair weather my arse...there's fans fecking it off who've been going through thick and thin for years.