Healthcare

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by RDCR07, Feb 1, 2018.

  1. Feb 1, 2018
    #1

    RDCR07 Not a bad guy (Whale Killer)

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    It aint going to be easy. Not with the plethora of corrupt corporations and Republicans running against them.
  2. Feb 5, 2018
    #2

    langster DJ Stink mouth, so soppy few pints very wow! Scout

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    In fairness Jeremy Hunt and Corbyn have both come out against Trump today over his Tweets.

    And it's no secret Farage wants to move to the USA. He's always been a hypocrite with his foreign wife and job in the European Parliament. Actually, He's a lot like Trump in that respect. No real convictions just running on what he could see was a problem in many areas of society. Used the racism, bigotry and fear from many to further his agenda and like his own pockets. Look how he has backtracked on Brexit, calling for a 2nd referendum because he has seen it has and will cause far more harm to this country than good.

    Like Trump he's a fraud. Dangerous, angry, lying, untrustworthy, self interested populist fraud.
  3. Feb 5, 2018
    #3

    SCP Full Member

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    Already seen Corbyn Tweet, good for him, even if I don't agree with all his politics. Regardless of that, it is the job of polititians in the UK to defend their NHS, even the ones who don't like it. Not the first time this smear campaign starts at FOX (Murdoch), wonder why he doesn't try it at Sky News.
    He would have more chances with the American right wing movement imo. His wife is German and probably he has a good pension from the EU Parliament who he hates so much.
  4. Feb 5, 2018
    #4

    Mike Schatner Devil's advocnut

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    In all fairness most Americans do have better healthcare than the NHS provides. The problem with the US system is 10% of the population don't have sufficient coverage and thousands are forced to file bankruptcy because of medical costs. Americans treat healthcare like going to the store. You book your own specialist visit. See them within a week or two and usually the follow up is extremely swift. I have gone from making a call to an orthopedic office to having knee surgery in literally two weeks. That was for a fairly minor non life threatening issue.

    So in the context of what Trump is posting it will resonate with many Americans. It just creates fear that a single payer system does not fix the problems.
  5. Feb 5, 2018
    #5

    SCP Full Member

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    10% = 35 million people, that's almost the entire population of Spain or Argentina, not good enough for a country like the United States should be.
  6. Feb 5, 2018
    #6

    Cheesy Bread with dipping sauce Scout

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    They might receive better coverage, but considering the amount that healthcare costs they're probably not getting better value for what they're paying, and often have to live with perpetual fear that if they're struggling for money they won't be able to afford it. The beauty of the UK system is that you can always afford it even when you're having financial troubles because everyone pulls together and contributes.

    Plus the healthcare itself is still very good anyway. Problems are there, yeah, but it's still a superb service.
  7. Feb 5, 2018
    #7

    fishfingers15 Contributes to username and tagline changes

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    I read that tweet in Donald's Trump's voice when he said 'Wrong' to Hillary Clinton in the debates
  8. Feb 5, 2018
    #8

    Mike Schatner Devil's advocnut

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    Not disagreeing there.

    The UK has good infrastructure and logistics around healthcare with a funding issue. The US has good funding in terms of spend per capita but poor infrastructure and logistics. Its ironic the US spend would fix the NHS and the NHS's structure would fix the US system, or lack thereof.
  9. Feb 5, 2018
    #9

    Kentonio Full Member

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    I've read many, many accounts by Americans who have experienced the HNS that disagree with you.
  10. Feb 5, 2018
    #10

    Mike Schatner Devil's advocnut

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    If you have insurance that is not really a concern TBH. You know your monthly premiums and your maximum out of pocket expenses are capped. You just have to be savvy about things like healthcare spending accounts and networks. Personally I prefer living with the knowledge I can get pretty much anything I want done by who I want when I want than worrying about out of pockets. However I would prefer that all Americans had healthcare insurance or access to a good single payer system without it being a significant financial burden.
  11. Feb 5, 2018
    #11

    Mike Schatner Devil's advocnut

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    All my family are in the UK. I lived there 35 years. My wife worked in the NHS 18 years, and now 18 years in healthcare here.
  12. Feb 5, 2018
    #12

    langster DJ Stink mouth, so soppy few pints very wow! Scout

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    Exactly. I'm sick (excuse the pun) of all the bullshit. US citizens deserve better but some are too selfish and others too easily swayed by bullshit. The rest (the majority)have to suffer either without heathcare or with crippling costs, and It's insane in a so called civilised country.
  13. Feb 5, 2018
    #13

    Kentonio Full Member

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    I didn't say you hadn't experienced the NHS. You sound like you are fairly wealthy and capable of affording whatever healthcare you need in the US though when and where you want it, as you said. Many Americans writing on the subject may not be as fortunate as you, while still not falling into that 10% uninsured catagory. Others also point to some experiences with the NHS that they said were far smoother, friendler and faster than they'd expect back home, even with good health insurance.
  14. Feb 5, 2018
    #14

    langster DJ Stink mouth, so soppy few pints very wow! Scout

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    Exactly. It's ok for those that can afford it but even then they are paying through the nose. In essence all US citizens are paying for private care. The equivalent of Bupa. Those without suffer the most. At least in the rest of the civilised world and especially here in the UK we all get the same care unless we choose to pay for private care.

    I wouldn't ever want a system like the USA has, in my opinion it's a human rights violation for many.
  15. Feb 5, 2018
    #15

    Mike Schatner Devil's advocnut

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    Agree with your sentiment at the end. However don't try and spin the US system to the point where its only the wealthy that benefits. Its the majority of Americans that get very good healthcare. If you're on average earnings or less the percentage you pay is greater than the UK. If you're on average earnings or more the actual costs different narrows significantly. If you'r a working professional like a Nurse, in IT or have a decent office job the percentage of earnings going to healthcare is similar to the UK.

    One more point the very poor that qualify for Medicaid and the over 65s that qualify for Medicare get fairly comparable coverage to the NHS for free.
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
  16. Feb 5, 2018
    #16

    Billy Blaggs Flacco of the Blaggs tribe

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    I agree. Then people complain that uninsured people use the emergency room like the Dr's office.
  17. Feb 5, 2018
    #17

    Raoul Admin Staff

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    Yeah, I feel most people in the states who are employed and middle class or above can get very good health insurance through their employers. Although the system is still pretty lopsidedly tilted towards insurance, medical, drug, and pharma companies and away form patients.
  18. Feb 5, 2018
    #18

    Mike Schatner Devil's advocnut

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    I agree. The US's biggest problem is the amount of the per capita spend that does not go on direct healthcare costs. Most socialize systems are down to under 10% on Admin and overhead, whereas the US its a crazy 40-45%.
  19. Feb 5, 2018
    #19

    langster DJ Stink mouth, so soppy few pints very wow! Scout

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    You just said yourself if you are on average or less then you pay more than the UK. Then you add in prescription costs and medical bills for operations that aren't covered by the insurance. Pre existing conditions etc.

    Two states have also now restricted Medicaid to being purely contributions related or for those that work, leaving the unemployed and homeless most at risk. More States are said to be looking at this too since Trump changed the regulations.

    I've said it ad nauseam A civilised country is determined on how it treats its poor, sick and needy and a country cannot be called civilised without the option of FREE healthcare for all. Everyone helps each other.
    Only in the USA is it someone's right to own a gun and shoot someone but the healthcare for the person who has been shot is a privilege. Priorities are ass backwards right there.
  20. Feb 5, 2018
    #20

    langster DJ Stink mouth, so soppy few pints very wow! Scout

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    Anyway dinner then back to work. Ugh.
  21. Feb 5, 2018
    #21

    Mike Schatner Devil's advocnut

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    It really doesn't work like that. Health insurance covers prescriptions. It also covers all costs when you have surgery. The maximum out of pockets also apply for out of network so if you did need a rare procedure the costs are capped. Many companies give more subsidies to lower income workers. I have worked at place where the people under $50k a year pay much smaller premiums.

    As for Medicaid many of my wife patients are billed to medicaid. Some nights it can be as high of 50% of patients and we live in the suburbs.
  22. Feb 5, 2018
    #22

    Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87 New Member

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    Christ! What a cnut! People in the UK protest to save the NHS, not to destroy it, YOU feckING CLOWN!
  23. Feb 5, 2018
    #23

    Mike Schatner Devil's advocnut

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    in all fairness to Tango Man he didn't even say that. He said people are marching because the NHS has funding issues, which is actually spot on. Of course he is spinning it for his own agenda....that could also be said for some of the comments on here.

    I just wish people could be more objective some of the time.

    :eek: shit did I just sort of defend Trump...I feel dirty, going for a shower.
  24. Feb 5, 2018
    #24

    langster DJ Stink mouth, so soppy few pints very wow! Scout

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    You are constantly defending him, it shouldn't feel unusual to you.
  25. Feb 5, 2018
    #25

    Mike Schatner Devil's advocnut

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    I disagree. Some of the bias and lack of objectivity on here clouds peoples minds. People tend to have poorly informed perceptions about things. Its the same sort of ignorance that leads Americans to think Brits have bad teeth and no dental care.
  26. Feb 5, 2018
    #26

    langster DJ Stink mouth, so soppy few pints very wow! Scout

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    What a shock.
  27. Feb 5, 2018
    #27

    Mike Schatner Devil's advocnut

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    Actually I think the name Recafe is pretty accurate. ;) The interesting thing with the political compass when I get GOP friends to do it they don't score far off where many Dems score.
  28. Feb 5, 2018
    #28

    Red Defence Full Member

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    Yet in the UK everyone gets treated whether they are rich, poor, destitute or from another country and without money or insurance. Thank God for the NHS. Couldn’t bear to live in a country where people didn’t automatically get the healthcare that they needed. It’s nauseating just to think about it. Not to mention cruel, heartless and uncivilised.
  29. Feb 6, 2018
    #29

    Eboue nasty little twerp Scouse Lover

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    Its not even okay for those of us who can. (I had a silver plan under BCBS, a reputable company) Endless amounts of paperwork, worrying about in network / out of network, pre-existing conditions, lifetime caps, having people be tied to their employers in order to have insurance, prescription drug prices, lack of rural care, etc. The entire system is irreparably broken.
  30. Feb 6, 2018
    #30

    langster DJ Stink mouth, so soppy few pints very wow! Scout

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    I agree completely and the point I was making which has been well discussed on here already is that it is not true that insurance covers everything. Many get financially crippled because of pre-existing conditions. Although Obamacare tried to eradicate it, insurance companies will try their hardest to get out of paying and those without insurance get killed on ridiculous prescription charges. Also many reports saying some drugs arent covered at all. Then you get stories like the odious little shit who increased the cost of AIDS and HIV drugs by 500% or making epi-pens unaffordable. We had people on here saying how much their pills cost them and it was ridiculous. Completely unaffordable where working families literally had to choose between food or medicine.





    Also as i pointed out, Trump removed regulations and now TWO states have voted to award Medicaid purely on a work related basis. The unemployed and homeless will not get it at all and many part time workers might fall short of the requirements too. How is that fair? Other States have said they will follow suit too. Kentucky was the first and I think it was Alabama the second but I may be wrong.



    Yes the NHS has flaws and yes people suffer, accidents happen, incompetence, myriad of problems but the problems in the USA come from greed and the fact health care is a profit based business as it is run by insurance and drug companies. It's unethical and immoral. I take no pride in saying this, it doesn't affect me but it does affect many of my family and friends and I just think It's so obvious to fix with UHC. Not all problems will go away and many new ones will appear but at least it will be fair and everyone will be entitled to the same treatment, and like here, if you don't like it and can afford it, then go private.

    Exactly. But others have said this is not the case when it quite clearly is. You have discussed this endlessly as have others here too. I just hope you guys all get a fairer system after the next election cycle. It really does seem like it's what the Dems should run on. The will of the people seems to be behind it now too. One poll I saw earlier was around 70% now back a form of single payer.
  31. Feb 6, 2018
    #31

    Mike Schatner Devil's advocnut

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    You will also be very surprised to hear US hospitals have to provide certain services like ER regardless of ability to pay. If you have insurance that pays, if you are truly poor medicaid gets billed. The group that do need some protection are the ones earning above the medicaid limit with a job without insurance. Extending medicaid and/or making employer provided insurance mandatory. The US system has many flaws but its not all doom and gloom.
  32. Feb 6, 2018
    #32

    Carolina Red Moderator Staff

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    That’s because the 2 main US parties aren’t that far apart on the political spectrum.

    I am VERY left of any major US party.
  33. Feb 6, 2018
    #33

    Eboue nasty little twerp Scouse Lover

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    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/24/us-healthcare-republican-bill-no-coverage-death
  34. Feb 6, 2018
    #34

    Cheesy Bread with dipping sauce Scout

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  35. Feb 6, 2018
    #35

    Mike Schatner Devil's advocnut

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    Not even sure why you quoted me and posted that because I said the same thing.

    "The group that do need some protection are the ones earning above the medicaid limit with a job without insurance. Extending medicaid and/or making employer provided insurance mandatory."

    That highlights exactly what I said on the previous page. People are way to focused on subjective analysis than being objective or pragmatic.
  36. Feb 6, 2018
    #36

    Eboue nasty little twerp Scouse Lover

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    I quoted you because of the line about treatment via ER. I then offered Objective and Pragmatic analysis of why that was not an actual alternative.
  37. Feb 6, 2018
    #37

    Mike Schatner Devil's advocnut

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    Well there is a first.....a Guardian article being offered as objective analysis. ;)

    The US healthcare system, has many flaws, and something needs to be done to protect the people without insurance.
  38. Feb 6, 2018
    #38

    Eboue nasty little twerp Scouse Lover

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    The source is a study from Harvard with data from the CDC. Did you even read the article or did you just want to repeat your opinions?
  39. Feb 6, 2018
    #39

    Mike Schatner Devil's advocnut

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    Didn't even have to read it, already knew the numbers. My wife has had papers published by the BMJ and she is contently studying, and sharing her thoughts with me :(

    We could get into the adverse death rate in the NHS as well. Some estimates that number at 40,000 a year, which is shocking considering the population is a 5th of the size of America. The US system is flawed but it still offers very good healthcare for the majority. Deriding everything about US healthcare is grossly unfair. Given the choice of keeping things as is or switching to NHS coverage most Americans would stick with as is.

    The US needs to figure out a way of spending the current amount per capita whilst ensuring the people without insurance get the same coverage people with insurance have. It should be doable by just reducing the admin costs and diverting those funds.
  40. Feb 6, 2018
    #40

    berbatrick Full Member Scout

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    I found most of the series including the Trump episode boring, but the individual episodes on the pharma company and HSBC were excellent.