Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by bond19821982, Feb 21, 2018.
He has been successful all his life so really it’s his football that is successful.
The same united beat city. Maybe they weren't fantastic over the course of the season
There are down sides to pressing as well. Some people come across like it’s the best approach with no flaw.
Or also because other teams can use the spaces left by the opposition pressing? Which leads to them conceding? Which leads to them dropping points?
Buy Toby to make the defense stronger and secure and a defensively strong box to box CM next to Matic and we could press the opponents defense much more because we could gamble a bit but still feel safe that our defense will handle it and that we have enough strong guys to take care of the opponents attacks.
It's not an issue of personell. The likes of Smalling, Bailly and Jones are probably just as suited to, if not more suited to playing a high line compared to Toby with their speed and power. Herrera would benefit alot from playing in a high pressing system. He was a main man for Bielsa at Bilbao, a manager who's teams have been famous for their high pressing.
Surely if teams want to be the protagonist, it suits us who want to be the antagonist? We can't counter unless the other team wants to have the ball. More proactive manager seems to be exactly what Jose would want and the more 'modern' managers come to the PL, the better he/we will do. I don't really understand the argument.
Probably being we are too slow in moving the ball on the counter. Probably because we spend so much time without it our players end up hugging the ball like they’ve missed it.
We are not good enough on the counter attack, our transitions from defence to attack are shite. And not to mention, nearly every single big team across Europe has a variation of pressing from the front.
We stumbled to second place? We had to play 38 games over the course of the season but yet we stumbled?! Wow.
Mourinho do not allow some players the freedom to press high, that is the problem. Our backline keep passing the ball sideways and backwards, or just hoof it upfield. We need to play from the back and move with the ball. Herrera seems to follow instructions, and not move the ball forward. Instead he just passes crossfield or backwards. This happens in every game we play until we go a goal down and only then we open up. If we score first then we go back behind the ball again. Same old football the whole season.
Which one of Jose’s previous teams have been a high pressing team?
His teams are not high-pressing teams in general but he does use it against certain teams when needed. I have seen him use it against Liverpool away last season and against Barca many times when he was managing Real Madrid.
Statistically, if we were to truly know the quality of every team in the PL (as the table can lie) a PL season would have to be 35 years long, with all variables remaining the same, to fully see an accurate ability of each team.
I do agree that our ability to counter attack is poor.
For some reason, our players get the ball from our defence, they sprint to the middle of the pitch and while in full flight, they stop, wait for the opposition defenders to get back into position, then our player will play the ball forward. It is utterly bizarre.
Jose is known for his counter attacking, so I refuse to beileve that he has told our players to stop in the middle of the pitch, when counter attacking.
Now, what is even more strange, is that in pre-season, we were able to counter attack. And it was reminiscent of Real Madrid. I believe we went from defence to "ball in teh back of the net2, in about 20 seconds.
Not only do we not do it, teams know the best way to beat us is pressing high. Just compare Brighton's tactics from the opening day to yesterday.
These teams are too scared to press against our rivals but have no problem doing it to us.
This business of conceding territory to teams has to stop. Not saying we should go all Klopp but we have to do it with more conviction. In the second half when we decided to press, it was half arsed. One player pressing, the other standing still.
Spurs are going to come at us like 10 fecking trains when we have the ball while we back-peddle and jog sideways when they have the ball.
It's going to be a massacre.
We normally do fine at home against them. If the team gets their shit together, we wont lose. But a Brighton performance, and we will lose badly
Honestly, high pressing is the way forward.
However, the art of defending with two banks of 4 is still thriving under Simeone at Atletico Madrid.
Everyone is high pressing atm in the premier league, even in the smaller teams. Maybe of we get Simeone, we can exploit weaknesses tactically with majority of teams with counter attacks.
People think Mourinho's style is what defending is, but he does not come close to Atletico's discipline in protecting zone 14 of the pitch.
What's most annoying to me is I believe we have the personnel to press if we chose to do so. Sanchez, Rashford, Lingard, Pogba, Fred, Herrera, etc. are all suited to such a tactic.
Think this conceding early goals will be a fixture of our season, teams coming out of the blocks and taking an early lead. Jose will probably feel vindicated in parking the bus after yesterday but we are so easy to rattle with high pressing energetic football.
yep Mourinhos tactic to beat the high press was to lump it up to Fellani. Thats why he wanted him to stay, Fellani controlled brilliantly a ton of passes to him the other day. Lukaku's hold up play was awful.
It's a funny thing.
Teams that play possession also press high in order to trap the opposition deep in their own half, compressed with ten men behind the ball so that they cannot find passing options in any space.
Mourinho plays deep. So deep, in fact, that he makes the above easy to accomplish for possession based sides. Without an effective counter-attack our dropping deep is quite literally pointless.
Not the same. In La Liga clubs do not press Atletico like they would do here. We would be left with another negative commander, even worse than Mourinho.
Atletico has a more athletic squad at their disposal, making their quick vertical counter-attacks very deadly.
We'd probably do alright if we go back to the defensive, bus-parking, long-ball style that Jose is comfortable with. Based on the Leicester and Brighton matches, he currently seems to be experimenting (very uncomfortably) with a curious blend of low block and passing football. In principle I prefer it to the long-ball style, but we're horrible at it and will get destroyed by Spurs if we try it against them.
Should be how we approach to every game from now. Mourinho has nothing to lose.
When we high press once we win the ball in a dangerous position we really have no idea what to do with it.
Because we don't do it enough, it's a tactic we use very rarely. The more we do it, the better we'd be at it.
We played higher up and pressed last night, not ridiculously so, but it proved that our defenders can't handle it.
Hence why Mourinho wanted a new Centre Half. His briefings were always that the style we were playing was to protect the defence. He was right. People don't listen. Woodward has fecked us over.
People need to understand that this is the first time in I have ever seen Man utd be so modern in their attacking methods. I did not see this with Fergie!
I really feel Mckenna had an influence, as I never seen even Mourinho's sides do this.
What am I getting at here? Tottenham, City and Liverpool in the early stages were appalling as they had to adapt to such a high press style. They couldn't keep their shape, and with every game they tweaked mistakes tactically.
Yesterday we saw a bit of naïvety from the players after half an hour. That's understandable. However to win a football match you need your strikers to score when opportunity arrives; Kane did and Lukaku didn't. You need your defence to not make mistakes; Tottenham' backline didn't, Man utd's it's back line did.
We all know the game is of fine margins. If you work really well and suddenly 2nil down knowing you could have been 2nil up by hald time, your confidence will shatter. You also have to understand, players can overcome this if they were an actual winning team. Confidence builds with every game.
You also have to take into account that this was the first match back for: Herrera, Matic, Valencia, Smalling, Jones... So they can't keep the fitness levels up.
All I am saying is, please let's just wait till Burnley game. We can change this around. We just need some luck to kick off our winning campaign.
Jose did it in other games the last two seasons too. Including vs Spurs at home last season when United had a very strong start in the first 15-20 min. Short memories. Which is understandable as some are desperate for positive signs.
The high press was working in the first 30 min. it required too much running though...
The likes of Sanchez, Lingard, Fred (from what I say last night), Herrera, Valencia, Shaw all seem to like to press. They do it normally even when we are not playing the pressing game but it is of no use as they others dont press. yesterday everyone did and it was there for all to see.
Spurs who are supposed to be this slick passing team were really struggling against the press in the first half and to an extent in the second. We created more than enough chances but missed too many really good chances.
Agree with this. With such a tactic everyone has to do it in sync or it doesn't work, gaps are left and the opposing team will exploit it.
There is also an increasing acceptance of the ABU argument that Jose is a tactical dinosaur and therefore could never ever have played like this. There have been many games where we used this approach.
The issue we have is with teams that go over our press and get 1v1s against our defence. In such matches Jose plays a low block and keeps it tight then tries to exploit the space in behind.
He's a pragmatic manager. The idea that we only ever play one way is just not true. If anything you can argue he changes the way we play too much.
Always felt he focuses more on countering the other teams style of play rather than trusting his own system to get the job done.
Second game in a row we've used it at the start of a game and maintained it for long stretches of the game.
I'm Mourinho out but in the other thread said I'm willing to change my mind if we start using high intensity as a primary tactic. Hope we get better at it.
Yes, I see this far too much, every game we set up to nullify the opposition rather than play our own game.
Is this a usual Mourinho tactic? I've seen it with SAF but only against other strong teams.
Our style of footballs seems to be slowly changing, today was the first day it was successful, however, with the Spurs game exposing how ill prepared we were to play like this.
Pressing is a great option for us with the stamina and physicality of our squad. Lingard, Sanchez, Pogba, Herrera and Fred all have bundles of energy.
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