How Much Difference Would it Have Made if Bailly and Rojo Had Been Fit?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by GM K, Feb 16, 2018.

  1. Feb 16, 2018
    #1

    GM K Full Member

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    Really glad that Bailly and Rojo are close to getting fully back in the team. I always thought they were our best two center halves not just because of their ability to defend well but also because both players have attitude and character. I also think they are pretty decent with the ball at their feet and the occasional willingness to go forward. Of course, their tendency for that one bad foul is well documented.

    Personally, I don't think we would be 16 points behind City if they had been fit. But how much of an impact would they have had on our overall play and performance if they had been fit? And despite being good individually, are they our best pairing in central defence? Have the negative impact of their their long-term absences been underestimated?
  2. Feb 16, 2018
    #2

    SwSw Banned

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    In my opinion, I don't think we would be that far behind if they were fit. There's always that aggressiveness, character and fight in them, which I like. Coupled with the fact that they are actually pretty decent with the ball, I would say they are indeed our best pairing.

    I can't really say we would have scored more goals if they were fit, but in my opinion, I believe we wouldn't be resorting to long balls that frequently if they played. It is rather obvious that with Smalling in the side, coupled with the fact that we do not really have much midfield options for the CB to pass to, we often resort to play long.
  3. Feb 16, 2018
    #3

    redIndianDevil Full Member

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    They wouldn't have made an ounce of difference IMO. Our problems lie in midfield and attack.
  4. Feb 16, 2018
    #4

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

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    The huddersfield game we wouldn't have lost, and we wouldn't have bottled the leciester game because of smalling being injured but playing, but other then that, not much. Jones and Smalling have done pretty well and we have the best defensive record in the league. We have struggled defensively the last month or so of course, but it was mostly good before then.
  5. Feb 16, 2018
    #5

    Varun Moderator Staff

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    I don't see either as particularly good on the ball so i don't think it'd have made much of a difference when it comes to the title race. We'd probably be more comfortable in the 2-4 race though
  6. Feb 16, 2018
    #6

    VancouverUtdFan Banned

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    Doesn’t really matter in all honesty. City can say the same sort of thing about their key players that have been hurt.

    ...but for the sake of the thread, title race would be a bit tighter somewhere between let’s say 8-13 points. Even then, not much of a race and tbh we have to move on from this being some sort of knock on United’s part or United’s fault. United were off to a historical start to begin the season with the most points in club history through its first 3 months. It’s City’s insane pace which puts things out of reach. The late goal winners/equalizers, not having a loss till half way through the season, etc etc. That is something no club can control regardless of their injuries because you’d have to match City’s start/pace which is unheard of.
  7. Feb 16, 2018
    #7

    MuranoLover Full Member

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    Would have made a big difference in terms of aggression and better passing from back to middle
  8. Feb 16, 2018
    #8

    Freak Born a freak always a freak.

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    Huge difference. They were 2 of our best centre backs before injury hit them. With them, the midfield especially Pogba wouldn't need to sit back so deep and would have more freedom to push forward knowing that the defence can actually hold their own. We require both Matic and Pogba to be disciplined now because I don't think Jose has much confidence in his defenders at this moment. It was the same with LVG's possession game - we had to protect our defence hence the keep ball, cautious approach.
  9. Feb 16, 2018
    #9

    mu4c_20le Full Member

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    Well we wouldve been 15 points behind city because we still couldnt score against newcastle
  10. Feb 16, 2018
    #10

    Greck Full Member

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    When it comes to passing, Bailly and Rojo had become hoof merchants this season. They were really good last season.

    De Gea also used to be elite with his kicking. A bit surprised people can't remember how good he was. Am convinced they're instructed to not mess around and just hoof it
  11. Feb 16, 2018
    #11

    SteveW Full Member

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    Not much. Rojo isn't as good as either Smalling or Jones.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
  12. Feb 16, 2018
    #12

    Snow Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down

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    Jones has been better this season than Bailly and Rojo have ever been so I can't see how big of a difference it would have made. We could play that Huddersfield or Newcastle match 100 times again and we would win 90 times. Bailly even cost us points against Stoke.
  13. Feb 16, 2018
    #13

    VancouverUtdFan Banned

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    This.

    Can’t believe people speak so highly of Rojo like he’s some sort of saviour lol. Bailly is world class and I’d argue the only competent/reliable centreback we have, but Rojo? Lol, give me a break. He has as many brain farts on defense as the rest of em...If anything, goes to show where United stand quality (lack off) wise on the back end and how well José has been patching up the defense and making up for with United still leading the league in GA. Amazing really.
  14. Feb 16, 2018
    #14

    Varun Moderator Staff

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    The defence and CM/Attack don't operate in isolation. Better quality defenders or ones good on the ball capable of building up play improve the attack.
  15. Feb 16, 2018
    #15

    Marvin-ator New Member

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    Bailly is class. I 100% agree that Rojo is prone to mistakes. However, I'm massively unsure why we bought Victor L; I feel Mou doesn't trust or (more worringly) our scouting is way off and when he arrived we believe he isn't the player we thought we watched/scouted.
  16. Feb 16, 2018
    #16

    pascell Full Member

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    Rojo has been fit for quite a while now, hasn't really been picked since that Bristol city game. Personally I think he'll be sold come the summer, it's either him and one of Jones/Smalling or both Jones and Smalling.
  17. Feb 16, 2018
    #17

    DdeGoat Banned

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    Not an ounce. Rojo is neither a very good defender nor is he ball player. In fact, he is guilty of aimlessly hoofing the ball or playing it to the opposition more than any other player.

    Bailly is becoming better the more games he misses out. I don't think people remember how his over eagerness leads to silly mistakes. He takes too many unnecessary risks.

    The main issue with our central defense is the lack of any kind of consistency. Most good central defenses are central defensive partnerships that learn and understand each others games by playing a lot of games together. Because of the injury infliction of our two main guys, Bailly & Jones, they have never given themselves a chance to form a solid partnership. Until, two of our defenders are fit and ready enough to play 30-35 games a season together, we'll keep having defensive issues.
  18. Feb 16, 2018
    #18

    SteveW Full Member

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    This is a silly thread really. Piling into Smalling and Jones is the latest hobby but our defensive record is good this season. I think our points total fairly reflects how the team have played this season. City are ahead because they create more and control games through midfield. Our defense is as good as theirs if not better.
  19. Feb 16, 2018
    #19

    Ian Reus Ended 14 years of Grand National sweepstakes

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    Realistically, I think we'd only have a few points extra but still 10 points behind citeh.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
  20. Feb 16, 2018
    #20

    arnie_ni Full Member

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    Rojo is probably worse than smalling on the ball. He just hoofs it long and lukaku never wins the header thus losing possession. At least smalling passes it to matic or another defender.

    Wouldnt be surprised if rojo had the worst pass completion percentage in the team
  21. Feb 16, 2018
    #21

    arthurka Full Member

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    This..

    Our problems are build up and attacking related .. Rojo really isnt much better hoofing the ball upfield than smalling ..
  22. Feb 16, 2018
    #22

    Pacificgi Full Member

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    Rojos good at defending but on the ball he seems to hoof it alot more compared to our other defenders. Dont know whats worse - that or smalling passing back to the keeper at the first bit of pressure.

    I think we'd not challenge city still but would have a few extra points with bailly. Our defensive record is good but having defenders who can pick a pass going forward makes our midfielders job a hell of a lot easier. I wouldnt mind seeing a partnership of bailly and lindelof given a go
  23. Feb 16, 2018
    #23

    FootyGirl88

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    I think a few of the goals wouldn't have been concede for sure, Leciesters first goal for example I have a hard time believing Bailly wouldn' of done better against Vardy, in fact I'm pretty sure since Bailly has been with us Vardy hasn't scored against him.

    Huddersfield's goal against us where Lindelof let the ball bounce that wouldn't have happened with rojo or Bailly tbh. But the situation is what it is i guess so theres no point dwelling on these past results.
  24. Feb 16, 2018
    #24

    noodlehair "It's like..."

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    Smalling's had a really bad season so on that basis a bit of a difference. Though Bailly has struggled a bit this season too and Rojo is bonkers. In my mind I don't exactly imagine them being Rio and Vidic.

    I think though, anything that means SMalling and Jones aren't in the team together, and that doesn't involve Lindelof in any way, is definitely an improvement. Watching Smallin and Jones try to play at centreback togeter is like watching two guys trying to fit a sofa through a doorway lengthwise and not between them being able to figure out why it doesn't fit.
  25. Feb 16, 2018
    #25

    Rifer Full Member

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    Aggression and fighting spirit at the back which are lacking. One of few things which are often ignored. It's infectious and affects the whole team. In addition, better build-up play from the back, they actually knows what they're doing with the ball be it hoofing clearance or passing. Also, in some games we're very disorganized that lead to the some of the silly goals we've conceded. Whenever Rojo plays, I noticed this doesn't happened that often.. particularly it have to do with his positioning sense and assuming defensive responsibility. Having them both playing surely will help, but realistically they'll make mistakes, still our best CB options.
  26. Feb 16, 2018
    #26

    Pav1878 New Member

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    We wouldn't be as far behind, but we still wldnt have won the league. Although we have shipped silly goals to drop points, we have also been found wanting when trying to break down stubborn defences when needing a goal.

    I think Bailly is decent at bringing the ball out, but I totally disagree about Rojo, who seems to blast the ball aimlessly forwards or out of play way too often. But I like him as an aggressive, albeit sometimes clumsy defender.
  27. Feb 16, 2018
    #27

    reddevilzZ Full Member

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    Wont make much of a difference...I still don't understand why people are stubborn on defense when the actual issue lie's clearly at the mid and the lack of attacking cohesion ! This is becoming silly and stupid !

    I Baily/Rojo had played in the last couple of matches people would have just bashed and called for another big money signing ...
  28. Feb 16, 2018
    #28

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

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    Not much at all. Rojo has been terrible since his return, playing more rash than Jones and Smalling put together. Bailly is overrated on here too. He is no better than Jones or Smalling and has a lot of dodgy moments too. Our defense is the best in the league it has been among the best for years. The question if we play out from the back well enough seems to be legit but how do Rojo and Bailly change that?
  29. Feb 16, 2018
    #29

    simplyared Full Member

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    Interesting thought! Although Rojo has been fit but has spent some time on the bench. Personally I'm a fan so I would like to have seen him figuring a lot more in the left side CB position. Bailly speeks for himself and imo Mourinho's best signing for the club. With hindsight, which is always easy, they could well have created an understanding and become a great partnership in that ever important part of the field.
  30. Feb 16, 2018
    #30

    Infra-red Full Member

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    Rojo really isn't a particularly good defender. Bailly has shown a lot of promise, but also had a handful of dreadful games in his short time with us. So, essentially, very little difference.
  31. Feb 16, 2018
    #31

    Leftback99 Full Member

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    We have probably conceded more goals. Bailly was average at best at the start of the season, Rojo isn't very good.
  32. Feb 16, 2018
    #32

    Rifer Full Member

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    Interesting first page of downgrading Rojo and Bailly.

    Bump this thread after they actually play.

    Expecting sudden turn of opinions once they do.
  33. Feb 16, 2018
    #33

    Red_toad Full Member

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    Why do people just forget how lacking both of them are in the air? We have 1 centre half who is superb in the air, rest of em are very average. So simply saying playing Rojo and Bailly will make the defence better isn’t correct. Teams will simply adjust their play to expose another issue.
    Really like both of them but as a pairing they’re still going to have plenty of issues.
  34. Feb 16, 2018
    #34

    londonredmaniac I suffer delusions of grandeur

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    Why are people talking as if Rojo is class?

    He's another properly average defender. Bailly on his day his a beast, but given his age and experience is also.prone to errors. Hopefully he gets fit and kicks on, there's a monster in there.

    We have issues all over the pitch, apart from in net. So until we sort those we are going to be nowhere near City.

    We've got issues in the dugout as well, and this comes from someone who thinks Mourinho was the man for the job. We are still in a bit of a mess, and it's taking time to sort.
  35. Feb 16, 2018
    #35

    Zlatattack Full Member

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    I thint wedw have an extra 10 points.
  36. Feb 16, 2018
    #36

    buckooo1978 Full Member

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    marginal differences really - a few points better off given that Smalling, in my opinion, brings anything but calmness to our defence.

    if you look at De Gea's stats he's clearly the reason we've such a good defensive record. Pay him what he wants and extend that contract by 4 years.

    we still don't have a coherent style of play. we are still predictable. That's the bigger issue really.
  37. Feb 16, 2018
    #37

    Trizy Full Member

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    We'd only be 3-4 points better off. Yes those two are brilliant defenders for us but we still can't score for shit.
  38. Feb 16, 2018
    #38

    Pexbo has never watched Star Wars

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    Bailly is being overrated as usual. He's a good defender, very good for his age and he has the potential to be one of the best in the world but there are faults to his game. There's a rashness to his game and lack of maturity still, he's easier on the eye than Smalling and Jones but I don't think he's above their level.
  39. Feb 16, 2018
    #39

    Kag Full Member

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    None whatsoever. We would still have scored around 51 league goals, which is shit.

    I think Rojo is comfortably worse at defending than Smalling and (certainly on this season's form) Jones.

    Some of you lot are in for a really sorry shock when Bailly comes back in for Smalling and we still lose to other teams having not scored.
  40. Feb 16, 2018
    #40

    limerickcitykid There once was a kid from Toronto...

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    How is Rojo close to getting back into the team or how would we be better off? He has been fit for months and isn't getting played. Do people think Mourinho is purposely keeping him out so we lose games?

    If he was played there would be only slight variations. Play the games against with Jones and Smalling and chances are we could get more points too. If Rojo was guaranteeing more points than he'd be playing. Bailly is also no better than Jones. Sure it'd be better to have him alongside Jones but it wouldn't be a drastic change. Bailly has his fair share of games all over the place and stupid mistakes too.