Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by sammsky1, Nov 26, 2017.
Barca vs. Inter 2010.
Don't worry, Phil Jones has got this
I like the look of this plan. Would certainly suffocate all possible areas for their ball players.
Challenge is do any of the midfield have the legs to support Rashford on the counter ?
Better write this down.
What do we target him with?
We've not been a great counter-attacking side this season. Unless we magically become one in the next 2 games, our best bet at coming away with a result is staying compact at the back, and scoring from set pieces and corners. Use our physical forwards and midfielders to dominate their set piece defense.
Don't bother with pressing their defense. Let them play in front of 2 banks of players. Have Matic cover passing lanes. Have Valencia keep Sane outside. Man marking De Bruyne will not work.
Man city 's midfeild dominance and their ball retention in the middle with 2 point of contacts in KDB and Silva is their biggest strenght and all the dominance comes from that area. To influence that level of dominance and get some better control of the midfeild and the game in general you have to press from the front and force them go wider on the wings in posession at maximum times and control the link up and through balls between Silva and Sane on one side and Kdb and sterling on the other side.
Silva and Kdb are fluid and try to drag the midfeilders out of position too and try to open up the space in the middle for the othr midfeilder to find space time to time.
Call me Crazy but I feel the best way to have a better midfeild control against city with their 2 point of contracts is playing a Diamond in the middle of the pitch against city's 433 with wide inverted wingers who play with maximum width at all times and force them to play wider away from goals and make them depend on crosses. That way also when they loose the ball you have enough triangles in the middle of the pitch to counter effectively and beat the man city high press and create and be threatening with the ball yourselves. While a Diamond shape Will Force 2 On 1 situation on full backs so the midfeilders have to help out defensively as well while the fullbacks dont stop tracking their men cutting inside in zonal defending but go Man to Man marking on the wingers and cut inside with them.
Most importantly city like to play from the back and make digonal long passes to wingers time to time through gundogan or fernandinho from theback to stretch the pitch , So you need to press them up high agressively ( A tactic which fergie used on Xabi alonso by playing welbeck in the middle , or klopp used against carrick last season to stop them dictating play from the back) While the front 1 or two depending on the system must press from the front as well.
Pressing at top of the diamond is difficult as you also need holding up and linking up qualities to play there but you can try to unsettle them atleast for some periods of the game.
If You need to play good attacking football a diamond in the middle will give the control of the midfeild you need without getting outplayed.
442 Diamond/ 4312
--------- -Rashford/AM/zltan -------------------Lukaku-------------------
Although Zlatan can not press Rashford and zlatan must be unpredictable and fluid . If City push the full backs up Rashford or Lukaku can drop wider and receive a counter attacking pass and exploit the space too.
If you are defending a lead and need more protection and control and yet maintain width and defensive control out wide You need a 4141 to have a Balance.
Forcing them wide and controlling the link up between wingers and attacking midfeilders is key to disrupt their midfeild dominance and have more control of the midfeild.
That first leg was a masterclass in counter attacking football from Inter. Probably the best performance I've seen from a Mourinho team. Don't think we'll replicate something similar against City though. Can you imagine Lukaku playing like Milito did for example? He unsettled the Barcelona defence with constant movement and they couldn't handle it. We need to play a lot better than we have recently to cause them problems.
Our best chance is a 3-5-2 with Bailey Jones and Rojo at the back. Wingbacks pick themselves. Ibra has to play number 10 as we’ll have to go long when under pressure. I’d play Rashford or Martial up top together with Lukaku, ask them to constantly try and run in behind. We’ll also have to press like crazy. Only way to prevent them building play from the back, breaking their fluency and creating some panic in their back line.
Dont expect a 352 vs city with their wingers and in behind runs. Sucide mission. It will be 532 maximum times with no width in attack.
I have noticed that they can not play a very physical game, if our midfield dominates them physically than we can get them. Huddersfield did the same in the first 30 minutes and it was working. I would not be surprised if Jose plays a destroyer like Bailly or Jones in a DMF position to put off KDB and Silva. Also a front two of Rashford and Lukaku with Pogba in an advanced midfield poaition to initiate counter attacks.
Man mark KDB out of the game and play 5 in midfield and hope get lucky on the break.
I thought this was a transfer thread.
Martial on the bench. Ashley Young and Rashford crucial for attacking the flanks. A fit and ready Ibra will boost our chances massively to support Lukaku.
Lukaku + Zlatan would be quite immobile and wouldn't pose any problem for their build-up play.
They arent used for their mobility but As a target man and physical dominance in the box aerially and also zlatan is the only one good enough to hold the ball and bring others into play with his link up without loosing it.
Bring back Park and Fletcher. The masters of the dark arts for these sort of fixtures.
I'd be very surprised if Jose starts both in such a game. And even more surprised if it works well. Maybe Jose will try it vs Watford and/or Arsenal. Bit not from the start.
It's amaizing how many fans on here underestimate workrate, dynamsm, etc. They are absolutely crucial in big games.
I dont. But you need to have the ball first for that and also ability to hold the ball in high pressure and create and link up. Work rate and dynamism is very important and there will be space against city to exploit in behind but can we bank on mkh or lingard to play in the centre one of which dont have the work rate and other is not good enough in the final third.
Zlatan can also score from long range and bring that mentality of his which is equally important.
A sniper rifle should do that trick.
I’ve pretty much accepted that they’re going to win the title, this season. I can’t see us or anyone for that matter picking up the points against them needed to catch them.
Wouldn't be surprised to see Jose have a soft dig at the OT crowd beforehand, probably after the CSKA match, get them nice and vocal for the derby.
Mentality is the biggest thing in any sport. Freaking leicester city can win the whole 38 game epl title we are surely good enough to beat man city and plug the gap.
Park the bus, limit space in midfield for the opposition and counter.
Bailiy - Jones - Rojo
Valencia —— Matic — Pogba —— Young
Mhkitaryan —— Martial
We have to start Ibra in this game. Lukaku's hold up play is nowhere near as good. We are going to be playing long ball's to beat the press. A lot will depend on Young & Valencia getting forward to deliver crosses. Don't have faith in either Mata or Miki providing the creativity we'll need so can't see us playing through them.
We won't be playing with both Martial and Rashford. We'll be lining up with Lukaku (or Ibra) and Rashford (or Martial) + eight other players whose objective is to defend first and foremost. In other words a 5-3-2, where I would expect to see the midfield consist of Matic, Pogba and Fellaini, unless Mourinho opts for Herrera to do a job on De Bruyne.
As it stands, that's probably our best shot of getting something from the game, too. We don't have a chance if we try to go toe-to-toe and make it an open game against them. Pogba, and his ability to deal with high pressure and start transitions, will be absolutely crucial.
To be honest this is our best chance of winning.
We've not been very effective with it against Liverpool and Chelsea but they were away, I'd be surprised if we were that poor on the ball and on the counter in a must win home game.
Lukaku cannot play. His hold up play is dreadful do I can just imagine us knocking the ball up to him and it bouncing back to a city defender over and over.
The above is exactly why you play Ibra and Lukaku. We can only afford at most 3 attacking players (probably 2) because the team will have to work extremely hard on their defensive shape, pressing, tracking etc. So you must pick your two most potent players in the no.10 and no.9 position. If Mkhi wasn't in horrible form then he would have played instead of Ibra.
Rashford and/or Martial will have to spend most of the game in our own half. Do not be surprised if Ashley young plays on the wing over them and Darmian plays as a LB.
People saying "Be physical". This is a huge game and will probably have Michael cuntface Oliver in charge, that won't be allowed.
Any one think they will go unbeaten this season?
No. Even Guardiola's Barcelona didn't go unbeaten, it's just too difficult.
You have to make the game physical. Delph is weak and Kompany isn't as mobile anymore.
What makes you think Zlatan is potent right now? He's played less than 90 min and has contributed nothing so far in terms of goals or assists.
We have brought him back so early to be ready for the derby for sure, WHile less potent zlatan is better than mkh at the moment.
needs to go with speed, kompany otamendi delph vs rashford martial lingard we should just at them with pogba spraying the passes
but with jose it will be the same setup with lukaku leading the line
Play on our strength.Don't go much deep and concede possession as it won't be a good idea but make it tight and compact, close spaces and use physicality to bully their players. We'll need to be absolutely clinical in this game as well.
KDB is being mentioned frequently when it's Silva who needs to be disrupted and totally put off his game.
KDB is the piece after the piece - you make him work by not having the ball come to him under optimal conditions. In this way, he has to work from deeper than he would like, and even though he is still potent, he's then not as threatening as he otherwise would be.
Problem is, Herrera is our only aggressive and dogged runner and harasser in midfield, and he's been really poor this season. Ideally, you want him on-form and fully focused on stifling Silva as much as he possibly can.
You can't stop City from getting chances, but you can reduce the quality and the quantity of the clear-cut ones they do get if you can break the links and drag them further back as a unit and make them build through midfield instead of right up on you in the final third courtesy of Silva pulling strings and setting the stage for others to add their own qualities to the mix.
I'd put Lukaku on the right primarily because of Delph. Either to have him right up on him being fed any manner of difficult balls (for Delph) on the counter. Let's face facts: we're not going to try and outplay City on the deck, and our players are prone to hoofing the ball when stressed. During their manic press, we are likely to see the ball go high. Better then, that it's going to any one of those three. Rashford for the over the top into space; Ibra, who can hold it up, and Lukaku, who should be able to totally dominate Delph in any kind of physical contest whatsoever be it pace, power or aerially.
It annoys me that Herrera is a vital component in any plan that seeks to bother Silva's game. For me, he is the most important player in this game for us by way of the job he would have and the need for him to execute the plan so that City have to conform a little bit more to a conventional game than they otherwise will.
Lukaku's job is also really crucial as he, if he does it correctly, can force City into a contingency to prevent Delph being isolated and targeted throughout the match. Conversely, we have no left-back who is suitable for this game, but I'd rather Young, who can possibly affect the play in an attacking capacity than any of the others, who are either too slow, or plain lacking in quality to do a specialist job.
Just as we are likely to attack their left-back, they're very likely to overload our left side where Pogba is prone to defensive lapses and Young is hardly ideal on the defensive end. This is where Rashford comes into his own as he'll have to have a tremendous game in terms of work-rate, tracking all the way back to double up with Young, and be an outlet ball for us on the break, relaying to Pogba to hopefully hit Lukaku on the diagonal and pressure Delph (always pressure Delph.)
Can't help but feel Valencia is likely to get done by Sané a few times in the game. In fact, Sané is the one I think can turn the game with his cunning and opportunism. He's one of those players that Valencia cannot outpace, bully or expect, as a converted winger, to be able to defend against in the manner a true full-back would. We'll spend so much time focusing on Silva and De Bruyne, as we must, that Sané will get his chances over the 90.
*Ibra. The hope is that he is fit enough and strong enough to do the job up-front from the opening whistle. There is a need to get the best hold-up man we have into the play, so he can act as a conduit for others and enable them to make off the ball runs without the constant fear of the play breaking down at his feet.
I don't expect Pogba to be majestic in this game, but all I'd hope for from him as a few moments of genius, a constant supply of relatively easy balls into Lukaku's vicinity and the studiousness on the other side of the ball that doesn't make him a liability deep in our half.
Ibrahimovic isn't going to last much longer than 70 minutes if he starts. At that point, switch him out for Fellaini. I'd actually either have Fellaini then be 'up front' but as a false #9 with Lukaku and Rashford then tucked in. Reason being is that there's more joy to be had off the shoulder of their CB's and the inside of Delph than there is in trying to go straight through or up against them with what we have. Draw the defending CB toward his full-back and have the wide-forward on the other side work as hard as he can to get to the back post on his side and split those CB's as much as possible in Ibra's absence.
Bring in Martial against tired legs and have him be as aggressive with his running as possible. Kompany is a penalty waiting to happen in the face of aggressive direct dribbling, as is Otamendi. With the groundwork of others, Martial's stage is set to turn the game if we're still in it by the time he comes on.
City aren't some un-containable monster juggernaut and they do have their weaknesses, but in order to get at those weaknesses, there has to be a conviction and belief in the play and a desire to want the game just as much, if not more, than they do. Huddersfield showed the required work-rate, and there's no excuse for us not to match that bar. Make their players work; make them frustrated and provide enough of an element of doubt by way of being a threat yourself and they can be drawn into the kind of game they don't really want to play.
Pogba and Fellaini to run into the box. I really think we can't beat City, but with this lineup we can make it as hard for them as possible to win.
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