Hypocrisy - Pep and ignorance

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by OldSchoolManc, Dec 2, 2018.

  1. Dec 4, 2018

    stevoc Full Member

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    Welcome to United JoMo!
    Indeed you do not but say you worked for a bunch of horrible homophobic, racist twats, now ok we all need to make a living so i wouldn't condemn someone for working for a horrible person if they need a job.

    But say this guy you work for asked you to do PR for them in an effort to make them and their company appear like they are Anti-Racist and Anti-Homophobic when in reality you know what their true feelings are. Would you be comfortable with doing that?
  2. Dec 4, 2018

    padr81 Mr. MoneyBags

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    Yes Saudi Telecom is owned by the Saudi government/royal family though they have sold off 30% or something. They don't own United but isn't that whataboutery, it shows your club are easily as willing to sell their soul for cash just like City, just like Pep, just like everyone.

    To put it this way would United coming out in support of rainbow laces not be hypocritical given they are happy to take money from the Saudi government? a government who have the same views on homosexuality as Cities owners. The amounts are obviously vastly different as are the relative involvements with the clubs but morally isn't dealing with a crook, dealing with a crook, Dealing with a scumbag, a scumbag etc..

    You know full well Pep can't come out and "own it". Of course he was asked to make comments on it for the clubs twitter, I don't think Pep twitchy and all as he is is likely to just call the club to make a statement on their twitter. If he came out and said he doesn't care he'd be vilified like Jose at a physio convention. We have no clue how he really feels about the rainbow laces campaign, maybe it does genuinely mean something to him, probably doesn't.

    Would an openly gay footballer turn down City or PSG? Maybe, maybe not. Somehow I think most wouldn't because they think "feck the other guys, I care about me and my nice new paycheck." Maybe I'm cynical and a heartless fecker but I think that's how most see the world. Pep is not better, he probably cares a little about these things but cares more about Pep his career and where he has the best chance of leaving a legacy. He's still going to give the proper lip service, I'm sure any other manager who doesn't really care about said issue would say the exact same.
  3. Dec 4, 2018

    padr81 Mr. MoneyBags

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    Oh please, you're reaching and desperate here. You think he's employed to do PR for Abu Dhabi.

    Pep is not employed as PR for anything and has never said a single thing praising Abu Dhabi's stance on anything, or make them look like anything. He's paid to manage a football team (and may I say doing quite a good job at it.) not do PR for anything, what that football team means to Abu Dhabi is nothing to do with Pep.
  4. Dec 4, 2018

    stevoc Full Member

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    Welcome to United JoMo!
    Do i think he's employed to do PR for Abu Dhabi? Well i definitely think he is (or was) employed to do PR for Qatar.

    He is currently employed to manage and represent Man City publicly and part of that is Public relations. Such as public statements for the Club to put on their Twitter account. Man City is basically just a PR vehicle for Abu Dhabi.

    Do you disagree that Abu Dhabi use City to whitewash their image in the west?
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
  5. Dec 4, 2018

    Maagge enjoys sex, doesn't enjoy women not into ONS

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    I can't wait for the pope's private football club to come out in support of gay people. :drool:
  6. Dec 4, 2018

    Reddy Rederson Full Member

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    Pep could if he wanted to, but he won’t. No conviction, just greed. Just like United ;).

    I know you think I think that uniteds shit dont stink. But I do know that United is stinky. Taking money from cnuts I’m sure is just the tip of iceberg. Ed looks like the type of guy Liam neeson would kill while trying to find his daughter. If city was the same, just taking money, I probably wouldn’t say anything. It’s the fact they are owned and operated by the ones doing the deed that separates them IMO.

    As for a gay footballer working at the club? Yeah, I’m the same as you. I think everyone’s a cnut just waiting for the right opportunity to prove it. Gay city players that aren’t open though would face a huge problem down the road. Most gay athletes come out after they retire, but what city player could ever do that and not get absolutely slaughter in public opinion and be hated in the gay community. I wouldn’t want to be that guy.
  7. Dec 4, 2018

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

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    No, because the view his owners have on homophobia has nothing to do with his view and in general have nothing to do with football. Pep has the view that any normal sane person should have. Why is he being criticized? Because his boss has a different view? It's clutching at straws calling that hypocritical, he's a grown man he can have his own views and say them without having anything to do with his club.
  8. Dec 4, 2018

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

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    What City's owners do separate from the club is exactly that, separate from their club. If they bought out United, would United all of a sudden represent all of that? Of course not. Someones personal views have nothing to do with any of the football side of things. I'm not saying their owners aren't horrible people. But that really has nothing to do with Pep. He has a job and nothing about that position has anything to do with the personal political views of his owners.
  9. Dec 4, 2018

    Foxtrot New Member

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    This thread seems really small-time. Let's not kid ourselves. If a local company from UAE offer to triple our salary, I'm sure we would jump at the first chance. OP, I am sure you would too.
  10. Dec 4, 2018

    docgunner New Member

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    It's the same. By your logic, both behaviors are being endorsed by consumers. It's just that LGBTQ causes and community have a better definition in today's society and culture than the underpaid proletariat in the western capitalistic societies so the former appears nobler than the latter. Heck, there is also labour abuse in gulf countries plenty but it's not picked up on as a cause for concern or protest here. There is persecution and jailing of minorities in the west too(USA) and their peeps are into EPL too..or does it only have to be monarchies?
    You have to be able to dissociate sport from politics while maintaining a healthy level of dissidence. Blatantly condemning every such comment such as Pep's doesn't help anything I feel.

    And on another level, how much is pep's involvement in those human rights abuses? And how much is ours? As I said earlier, should we stop watching EPL and boycott the FA because they're allowing City to do business here?
  11. Dec 4, 2018

    Reddy Rederson Full Member

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    Pep is actively supporting, directly working with people that kill people on principle. Its not some sponsorship deal, the people that own and run that club put people to death. How you can say that using a phone is the same as being part of a propaganda machine, I have no idea. And that little "lets keep politics out of football" should be aimed at those using football for political goals. ie city and their cnuty owners. I cant stress this enough, they are the ones doing it! Them, they are killing people. Not some government bullshit that doesnt treat people fairly. Not some knob in an office with shitty opinions. Not some company that treats its workers like shit. People, killing people for no good reason. We might have sponsers who are cnuts, but we dont work for them clearing up their shitty image. We arent a propaganda device whored out whenever some douchebag beats a guy with a cattle prod.
  12. Dec 4, 2018

    OldSchoolManc Full Member

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    His boss is a puppet master and Pep is moving to their instruction.
    Why wasn’t his statement on his own personal account?
    By making that statement on the club Twitter account, he is holding hands with City AND the owners while he is doing it.
    The only way that the City owners can prove that they ARE actually behind the LGBT community, is by changing the laws in their own country. They have the power to do that.
    They are saying that they support them in this country through gritted teeth. But NOT in their own back yard.
    It’s like saying that you love ice cream, but you’re not going to eat it yourself, and if you ever bring it to my house, I will punish you for it.
    It’s a blatant lie.
  13. Dec 4, 2018

    stevoc Full Member

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    Welcome to United JoMo!
    He isn't being criticized because he has a different view to his boss mate, you seem to be missing the point.

    He is making public statements on behalf of Man City in support of an Anti-Homophobia campaign but he is obviously well aware the his employers and the owners of the club do not share those views. And thats the important distinction here, he's not just sharing his personal views independently which would be fine. He is assisting Abu Dhabi in their attempt to project a view to the world of a progressive Gulf state. While in reality back in the UAE views on LGBT people are very different.
  14. Dec 4, 2018

    kouroux 45k posts to finally achieve this tagline

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    Obviously he gave the most generic and PR driven answer possible. How else was he supposed to answer ?
  15. Dec 4, 2018

    Mordownm35 New Member

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    Oh dear these threads are starting to get ridiculous now.

    This is a UK campaign that Guardiola and the club obviously support and believe in. Just because some people involved with the club do not believe the same as you or me doesn't mean that everyone associated with the club has to agree with them.

    I take it you have been critical of United backing the rainbow laces campaign despite the numerous sponsorship agreements with Saudi Arabia?
  16. Dec 4, 2018

    arthurka Full Member

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    I would not put my son into that youth academy..
  17. Dec 4, 2018

    Vato Watches other men wank.Supports Real.Coincidence?

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    Spot on.

    Some people just love to point fingers.
  18. Dec 4, 2018

    Josep Dowling Full Member

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    See my issue with this is simply he has choice to work for any club in the world. He chose to work for City because they dangled a big gold carrot in front of him. He went and danced with the devil and should expect criticism in situations like this.

    We all know he has to say it for PR purposes but we are discussing the hypocrisy on what he's saying, which it 100% is given his comments were during a Manchester City conference and he's their current manager.
  19. Dec 4, 2018

    Josep Dowling Full Member

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    My issue with this statement is that the UAE Royal family are purchasing foreign businesses for two reasons:

    • To diversify their wealth for when the oil money runs out

    • To promote the UAE and the Royal family in a good image.

    This is precisely why they have purchased a Premier league club. The club is being used as a propaganda tool but a lot of City fans can't see that. They certainly aren't making money out of their club. So whilst they promote equal rights for woman, equal rights for the LGBT community, even having a women's football team they couldn't give a damn as long as it looks good towards the Royal family.
  20. Dec 4, 2018

    Casanova85 New Member

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    Everybody knows, himself included, that Pepus is an hypocrite of the highest caliber.

    Mou needs confrontation and drama to endure, Pep needs hypocrisy...
  21. Dec 4, 2018

    adexkola Arsenal supporter

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    You think that's working out for them? It's always sounded weird, the idea that a foreign entity would buy an English club to launder their image. Seems like a really convoluted way to do things.
  22. Dec 4, 2018

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

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    It's soft power and exactly what they are doing.

    "We are acknowledging that how we are handling this project is telling a lot to the world about how we are,". "The UAE is different from other Arab countries. People think the Arab world is one, but it is not. This is showing the world the true essence of who Abu Dhabi is and what Abu Dhabi is about. That is something new, something we didn't really plan for."

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/sep/18/manchester-city-abu-dhabi-mubarak

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_power
  23. Dec 4, 2018

    kouroux 45k posts to finally achieve this tagline

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    I agree with you. Money buys everything sadly
  24. Dec 4, 2018

    adexkola Arsenal supporter

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    Very interesting, thank you. Still reading through this
  25. Dec 4, 2018

    UnrelatedPsuedo I pity the poor fool who stinks like I do!

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    Pep is a cnut. Flying a ribbon for Spanish dissidents while working for an owner/country that simply kills dissidents.

    However.... I can’t knock the guy for being a ruthless purist.

    He has his art and he travels the world looking for the best vessel to explore his talents. Barca was an unqualified success. Bayern was a qualified one. City could yet prove to be his best and most impressive work.

    There’s something to be admired there. I’m not saying that I’d want to own that particular character trait, but it’s possible for me to admire or respect it. If only for how great his outcomes are.
  26. Dec 4, 2018

    jontheblue Full Member

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    I can't imagine many people with half a brain cell, no matter which team they support, don't realise they are indeed the two principle reasons

    Although if you don't understand that long term (I'm talking 20/30+ yrs long term) the plan is to make money out of city and they wouldn't diversify their wealth away from oil into projects they don't believe will eventually turn a profit, I'm at something of a loss as to what you think the point of diversifying is - otherwise, they may as well just put the money on deposit at the bank. Now if you don't believe they will actually ever make money out of city and think they are deluded, that's an opinion - nobody knows what will happen in the future. But are you seriously suggesting they are diversifying their wealth but actually expect to lose money ?


    As for the point about why they promote LGBT rights, womens football (and lets not forget the various city community & charity initiatives) of course it's partly for PR. How on earth do you think the world works ? You think David Cameron personally cares about gay marriage ? Or that all rich charity donors care about the cause they so publicly donate to ? If you want to get into separating the support of minority/disadvantaged causes from the motivation behind supporting those causes, you'll be here forever
  27. Dec 4, 2018

    andyox New Member

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    I agree with what you've stated are the reasons that Sheikh Mansour bought the club, so I have no issue there. Yes I would say building awareness of and broadening the appeal of Brand Abu Dhabi/UAE was definitely a reason for buying City, in the same way that Etihad (AD) and Emirates (Dubai) have sponsored a broad range of sporting events/stadia/club shirts etc (the difference with City is obviously that this is ownership rather than just standard sponsorship). Speaking personally, I'm pretty sure I'd never heard of Emirates before they sponsored Chelsea's shirts in the mid-2000s, and I don't think I'd heard of Etihad before they became City's sponsor as part of the takeover.

    Have they been successful in those two goals? On the first point, it's been an excellent investment for them so far given City's current market value. On the second point, I think it's more mixed. Yes I think the City investment has certainly broadened people's awareness of AD/UAE, but it's also true to say (I think) that this awareness has also come with greater awareness of the various domestic policies in the UAE that from my UK cultural perspective I fundamentally disagree with (as you probably also do), in the same way that the Qatar World Cup has shone a brighter light on Qatar's exploitative approach to construction worker rights/safety.

    I would actually hope that this image laundering that people understandably have a problem with turns into a two-way street. By increasing awareness of what we consider to be unacceptable domestic policies, perhaps it will be a catalyst for some modicum of positive change within the UAE. Let's be clear here, the UAE is very different to the UK, and is not going to turn into a parliamentary democracy tomorrow (for example), but change is possible -- certainly there have actually been several quite positive reforms in rights for construction workers in the UAE over recent years (although it's still very far from perfect).
  28. Dec 4, 2018

    padr81 Mr. MoneyBags

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    He was indeed for Qatar but whats that to do with City?
    Nope, Man City are a football club that is owned by a member of the Abu Dhabi royal family. I'm pretty sure we were just on the pitch there playing football and not actually doing PR work but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

    Yes I do disagree but not entirely, people know what goes on in Abu Dhabi and have, City hasn't changed anything for them really, other then got them a few trophies for a whole lot of cash. Are Abu Dhabi trying to use their ties to City to make them look good, most certainly, is anyone with half a brain buying it? Nope. The clubs stance on Rainbow Laces has nothing to do with the owners stance really.
  29. Dec 4, 2018

    stevoc Full Member

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    Welcome to United JoMo!
    I was simply highlighting that Guardiola will do PR for questionable regimes.

    Well i would hope not but there are a lot of naive people in the world sadly that would buy it. It's also no doubt a long term project for Abu Dhabi and opinions are not going to change over night. Amnesty International think this is why they bought City.

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/jul/30/manchester-city-human-rights-accusations

    I think buying City has changed things for them, they are much more visible internationally now then they were in 2007.
  30. Dec 4, 2018

    padr81 Mr. MoneyBags

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    Of course they are hoping but are they fine with City supporting Lgbt causes when they quite openly despise them? Really, I think this shows City and Abu Dhabi are far from one and the same. yes they want to win and show their faces but in no way are they going to try and pretend they have similar views to City or City to them on HR issues. Its crazy to think they would imagine people so stupid.

    They are hugely more visible but one could argue buying City would and has brought more scrutiny on them. That very article wouldn't exist and many who have read it would not know of those horrible crimes without it. So its proof that them buying City attracts negative attention and press as well as positive. I would say it hasn't really whitewashed anything, instead its brought in more attention and huge scrutiny that wasn't there before.

    I mean its turned half this forum in Human Rights Activists, who have issues with them alone. I'm sure some were here before but I'm sure very many weren't, particularly when I can't find any threads with issues of Uniteds middle eastern dealings.

    Don't get me wrong, they are horrible, horrible people. 1000%. They are just not Man City, in the same way the Glazers are not Man United, Roman is not Chelsea...
  31. Dec 4, 2018

    stevoc Full Member

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    Welcome to United JoMo!
    I respect your opinion mate and as a City fan i understand it, but i think the links between City and Abu Dhabi are a lot closer than you do. Yes it's no doubt brought them negative attention as well, but i'm sure they knew that going in and probably think it's a case of riding it out until it dies down. Look at Qatar they've had way more negative press but the World Cup looks like it is going ahead in 2022.

    I can't speak for others but my opinion on this isn't because it's City, i don't particularly dislike City no more than other rivals anyway. If United were bought out by the Saudis i would have similar issues with them using United for PR. I'm not impressed by United's current business dealings with them but thats a lot different than being owned by them.
  32. Dec 5, 2018

    Prometheus Full Member

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    I do appreciate the point that a lot of people are making and it's valid in and of itself, but you have to realise that to have conflicting views or morals that aren't consistent is really widespread among humans. Also a lot of people have this belief that their society is better in some definitive sense when in reality every society has massive shortcomings, so this becomes my government/society is less evil contest. It's really hard to care when the world is that fecked up! We're all doomed!
  33. Dec 5, 2018

    Needham Full Member

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    No he doesn't. City's owners do.
  34. Dec 5, 2018

    Reddy Rederson Full Member

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    How racist of you.
  35. Dec 5, 2018

    Needham Full Member

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    You not seen the movies...?
  36. Dec 5, 2018

    jontheblue Full Member

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    It's a really interesting point. Most Middle Eastern countries, Israel aside, have traditionally not run with democracies. We in the West tend to accept the idea that democracies are always best. But if you grew up in the ME and saw the democratic countries pretty much screwing up with every intervention they take part in, if you see the corruption in the rebuilding processes and of course the bigger tendency in the West for drunkeness, drugs, casual sex, barely there dresscodes, etc, etc you can see why they often look to the West and ask who are you to preach. On top of all that, it really wasn't that long ago that we had no rights for women to vote, homosexuality was illegal, etc.

    I'm not suggesting for one moment that there are not some horrific human rights abuses in the ME. But as you say, there are also many inconsistencies and we tend to look at other countries through the eyes of our (less than perfect) own countries

    I think there is also a very interesting question of are these countries more or less likely to modernise in their approach as a result of growing integration through football and other ventures with the West ?

    Finally, when it comes to 'good' or 'right' reasons to buy a football club, why have the majority of current Premier League clubs bought the clubs they have ? In most instances in recent times, it would appear it's primarily about making money. In the odd instance it's not, it's about vanity. Which type of reason for buying a club is more likely to be better for the sport as a whole and for the fans of that particular club ? I'm not sure there is a right or wrong answer (it's mainly just depressing) but it is an interesting question nevertheless
  37. Dec 5, 2018

    Reddy Rederson Full Member

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    Yes I have, and you went too literal with my metaphor.
  38. Dec 5, 2018

    Needham Full Member

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    So why use a metaphor a mile wide of the evidential mark? If you're going to be nasty you could have said that Ed Woodward looks like an elongated piece of spam done out to look human by the Chapman brothers. Or that he looks like someone waiting to be implicated in Operation Yewtree. But no. You think Ed Woodward looks like the wealthy middle easterners buying human flesh in the ship basement as Neeson busts in? Or maybe Ed looks like the gang of Albanians that hero Liam makes very short work of in Paris? The guy who identified Ed Woodward with a set of fictional characters who rape kidnapped young women climbs aboard the highest horse on the ranch when someone calls him out on it. "How racist of you"...you absolute spod. I'm glad you're backtracking.
  39. Dec 5, 2018

    Reddy Rederson Full Member

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    Just take the joke for what it was. fecking hell.
  40. Dec 5, 2018

    Needham Full Member

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    :lol::lol: kidding too!