I’m tired of watching this slow build up style

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Josep Dowling, Feb 11, 2018.

  1. Feb 11, 2018
    #1

    Josep Dowling Full Member

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    This may seem like a reactionary thread to today’s game but our current build up style is so boring and part of the reason that we don’t kill games.

    Bar the first month of the season the build up play has been so slow. We use to be the entertainers of the league but now watching us is becoming a chore once again. Since Christmas we have started every game in second gear which invites pressure onto ourselves, why do we do it?

    I know football is about winning over beautiful football but seriously you can do both. We use to do it every season. City are doing it right now.

    The question is what can we do about it? It would be easy to blame the manager but this has been the case under 3 managers. When I watched Jose’s Chelsea teams and Real sides they were conservative only in the big away games. Most of the other time they played attacking football. The players have to take responsibility on the pitch.
  2. Feb 11, 2018
    #2

    SuperiorXI Full Member

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    We've been slow for years... you have to go back to Fergie times when we last played consistently with lightning pace.
  3. Feb 11, 2018
    #3

    Globule signature/tagline creator extraordinaire

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    The worst thing is when we absolutely need a goal we look completely bereft of ideas and most of time have no urgency. Next time we're chasing a goal look how many times the ball comes to one of our defenders and, rather than take any sort of responsibility, they play a simple sideways pass to another defender - who will more than likely do the same thing.
  4. Feb 11, 2018
    #4

    Kag Full Member

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    The quickest football we have played under Mourinho was October/November 2016. Funnily enough, we'd actually draw some of those matches.

    You're not reactionary, just right. The laboured attacking football has been an issue for over twelve months now.
  5. Feb 11, 2018
    #5

    Dan_F Full Member

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    It’s slow because no one takes a risk playing the ball through midfield. It’s usually an easy sideways pass to the full back, who then checks and either plays it back across the defence, or it gets smashed up to their defenders.

    It’s pretty embarrassing.
  6. Feb 11, 2018
    #6

    waza7111 Full Member

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    We must have wasted at least 15-20 minutes passing the ball around at the back today. Neither Smalling or Jones can make an accurate forward pass when under the slightest bit of pressure.
  7. Feb 11, 2018
    #7

    Judas Open to offers

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    We start games like we've been playing for 72 hours non stop. Don't get our approach, and how lacking in energy we are.
  8. Feb 11, 2018
    #8

    Drawfull Full Member

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    There were times today, that if you weren't paying full attention and looked up to the game, it was almost as though we'd won a free kick in our own half. They are that static.
  9. Feb 11, 2018
    #9

    Ban Full Member

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    Is it a fitness issue?
  10. Feb 11, 2018
    #10

    AndyJ1985 Full Member Verified Moaner

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    Me too. We really are a terrible 'team'. We struggle to do the basics right. The passing is sloppy and we panic when pressed. There's very little quick one touch passing, very little movement. The coaching, or lack thereof, is evident to see. We're not coached to play attacking football, we're coaching to defend and then rely on individuals to score the goals. It's hopeless football and I'm sick of it.
  11. Feb 11, 2018
    #11

    red_john New Member

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    Yes and it's getting really worrying now. Our defenders cant seem to pass forward. Our build up from defence and midfield is literally walking pace. We need another CM in the summer. Someone who can string a couple of balls together and with some fuc*ing urgency!!!
  12. Feb 11, 2018
    #12

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    On another day we would have had at least 4 goals and this thread wouldn't exist.
  13. Feb 11, 2018
    #13

    Asger Full Member

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    We were even slow in his last year's.
  14. Feb 11, 2018
    #14

    Massive Spanner Thinks Geoff Shreeves has one

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    You have to go pretty far back in Fergie times too. Maybe 2010 at a stretch?
  15. Feb 11, 2018
    #15

    Greck Full Member

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    No real attacking pattern. The players just figure it out as they go along. We seem okay to grind out ugly wins and move to the next one.

    Also doesn't help that we have an awful ball playing backline. If the other team pushes up and crowds our defenders then we'll struggle. In these games getting the ball to our attackers is like scoring a goal.
  16. Feb 11, 2018
    #16

    Kush Full Member

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    So am I but every time we try to speed it up we just end up making more and more errors, we haven't won a single game this season in which we've conceded first. That's an amazing stat for a club who's pining for a place in Top 2, we're just too easy to defend against when it should be the polar opposite, teams should be shitting themselves when we're attacking them a goal down. One goal should be a catalyst for a win but we never ever do that, the reason is whenever we're up against it our players just rush through the passes and make it easy for the opposition to clean up.

    Another major culprit is we're too soft despite being a team of giants, I would love for someone to dig up the statistics on how many second balls we lose. They must be a hell lot, with a goal down you expect players to raise the intensity in duels too but it's not the case with us. Mourinho and players both have to share the blame.
  17. Feb 11, 2018
    #17

    worldinmotion66 Full Member Scouse Lover

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    Those three managers were negative in their ethos or preferred possession football.

    I think Mourinho maybe limited in his squad options but that is essentially his fault. He chooses a certain type of player for his system and it's just not working anymore - we're not a team that can get away with negative football like a Chelsea, Porto or Inter Milan; the fans just won't allow it.

    Alexis Sanchez doesn't want to track back 60 yards to chase a full back, but put him in an aggressive pressing team and he'll run for you all day. We need an aggressive approach, a more proactive manager and a more entertaining brand again. Give Marcelo Bielsa a front three of Sanchez, Martial and Rashford with Matic, Herrera and Pogba behind that and you'd see a far more aesthetic display.
  18. Feb 11, 2018
    #18

    3KDré Full Member

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    The best football we played under LVG was in a 4-3-3. Last year we went on a streak of being great defensively and offensively and went unbeaten for something like 15 games and I think we won 7 on the trot in the league. This year our most attractive football was in a 4-3-3.

    Players like lingard martial pogba and Sanchez are suited to quick one twos in an around the box but we’re not trying to play that type of football and we’ve limited movement.

    A lot of the time people say formation doesn’t matter players just have to work hard, which is true but you can see how much more excited players play when you play them in their correct position.
  19. Feb 11, 2018
    #19

    SuperiorXI Full Member

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    Yep would agree with that.
  20. Feb 11, 2018
    #20

    abdo99 Full Member City Lover

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    We don't have defenders capable of playing the ball out. It's as simple as that. It's stupid to expect Smalling, Jones, Valencia and Young to play forward passes and bring the ball out. We've had 3 managers come and go since SAF left and the common denominator is these players. It's stupid to expect different results when you keep the same mediocre players. Until we have a proper clearout I'm expecting a lot more results like today in the future.
  21. Feb 11, 2018
    #21

    Kag Full Member

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    This is true, although I do think today was particularly horrible in this respect.

    Newcastle were up for it, but the likes of Pogba and Matic couldn't even get the ball from under their feet, never mind pick a pass at tempo.
  22. Feb 11, 2018
    #22

    SS Full Member

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    We conceded first against Newcastle in the reverse fixture. Won 4-1.
  23. Feb 11, 2018
    #23

    Di Maria's angel Captain of Moanchester United

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    Hmmm... before Jones and Smalling became regulars? No real surprise, those two shit their pants when on the ball.
  24. Feb 11, 2018
    #24

    Reddevildans Full Member

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    Mentioned this in another thread. And it looks horrible when we're losing. It all comes down to our back 4 not being composed or comfortable on the ball and nobody taking responsibility in midfield in taking the ball of them. Its a huge problem.
  25. Feb 11, 2018
    #25

    BeforeKeanetherewasRobson Full Member

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    I don't mind slow(er) football IF it suits your players/tactics.

    The problem is we have players who are better with quick ball ... none of Rashford, Martial, Lukaku, Lingard want the ball with their back to goals, they want it quickly to take advantage of the space and their speed.

    None of them are players who can REGULARLY take players on 1-on-1 so slowing the game forces them to try to do so (and fail) or pass sideways (or backwards if you're Valencia or Smalling). We're not a dribbling team.

    Square pegs in round holes (Jose fault), wrong tactics to get the most out of the players we have (Jose too) combined with a shocking "oh, poor me, we're not winning" attitude from most of them (players).

    Bin some of the defenders, get a tough CM and play quicker ball so our forwards can use pace in space and get defenders running backwards.
  26. Feb 11, 2018
    #26

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    Matic has been poor for a while and Pogba clearly wasn't 100% today. Carrick and McTominay simply aren't good enough as back ups. Could have really done with Herrera or Fellaini being fit today.
  27. Feb 11, 2018
    #27

    Massive Spanner Thinks Geoff Shreeves has one

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    What's worrying is that Mourinho teams used to be all about quick breaks and counters. Where the feck did this slow build up play come from? Hangover from LvG? Mourinho losing his way? Poor coaching in the club?
  28. Feb 11, 2018
    #28

    Josep Dowling Full Member

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    I think they are a massive part of the issue. Neither have been good enough for this club for years. When Van Gaal first started he tried to play attacking and we weren’t winning. He then went very conservative and we didn’t concede goals. Everyone was raving about Smalling being the best CB in the league that season when in reality it was the protection of the rest of the team that made him look like a great CB.

    We really miss a Ferdinand style CB who can run out with the ball and offer support to midfield and create space. I can’t wait for Bailly to get back in the side.
  29. Feb 11, 2018
    #29

    drdoityourself Full Member

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    Can you use it in a sentence?
    Smalling and Jones don't pass it forward. Valencia either passes it back to defense or to a midfielder who is closing down on him, the midfielder in question has a player
    on his back. The midfielder has no option but to pass it back to Valencia who makes a hurried clearance. That's basically most of our build up.

    The system takes away another option in midfield, which 433 would solve, but I'm afraid the defenders do not have the ball playing skills needed to break pressure or maintain pressure, keeping possession high on the field.

    We often surrender good field positions when the the center backs are being closed half-heartedly down by their only striker. They cannot keep it between themselves settling for a 60 yard backpass to DDG.
  30. Feb 11, 2018
    #30

    RedStarUnited Full Member

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    If the OP is like me then this would have been an issue even if we won by 4. Offcourse what would have then happened is people would have said why are you complaining after a win.
  31. Feb 11, 2018
    #31

    Hughie77 New Member

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    Who knows looks like it, poor in last 20, in recent games, at start of season it was opposite scored more in last 10.. this must be looked at are players just going through the motions because league has gone?
  32. Feb 11, 2018
    #32

    Offside Euro 2016 sweepstake winner

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    You could genuinely not find 10 games under Jose where we have had a good first half. I mean where we've played really well. If you try:

    Man Utd 4-0 Leicester HT September 2016 (4-1 FT)
    Man Utd 3-0 Fenerbache HT October 2016 (4-1 FT)
    Swansea 0-3 Man Utd HT November 2016 (1-3 FT)
    Man Utd 1-0 Watford HT Febaruary 2017 (2-0 FT)
    Man Utd 1-0 West Ham HT August 2017 (4-0 FT)
    CSKA 0-3 Man Utd HT September 2017 (1-4 FT)
    Watford 0-3 Man Utd HT November 2017 (2-4 FT)
    Man Utd 2-0 Stoke HT January 2018 (3-0 FT)

    8 games out of over 100 where we have actually played really well in the first half. Even them I'm being generous, a lot of those games I've listed still had brainless, wasteful attacking play. A lot of them also had poor second half showings. We just don't start like a Man Utd team and it's just boring and shit to watch. Even when we have a commanding lead we often sit back and invite the others onto us.

    I think the only complete performance I can remember under Jose was the West Ham game on opening day. So many have been marginally better than Van Gaal and recently, many have been just as bad. We have bought better under Jose but in terms of attacking cohesion, composure, discipline, hunger we are just absolutely fecking shit.

    I don't enjoy watching any of our games and I can't see the way out. We all seem to think buying players is the answer but it isn't. We need a proper manager who can get a good system for all our attacking players, who can man-manage the likes of Pogba and Martial who are so talented and get the best out of them. Instead we are going backwards! Pogba, Rashford and Matic have all gone backwards in recent months. We all kid ourselves (me included) that everything is fine as we are in 2nd so that's 'progress' but really our performances aren't progressing at all.

    I'm not going to say that we are going to go the way of Liverpool just because I have taken the loss badly today but honestly, the whole culture of the club seems off to me. Gary Neville said it in commentary today there is just no rhythm to us. Nobody can put their finger on what is wrong but we are miles off the league.

    I think the reason boils down to the fact we have completely abandoned our values. Since the 1950's we have always played attacking football bar a shit period in the 70's. We are one of the most renowned clubs in the world for attacking football and we have completely abandoned it in favor of this pragmatic, uninspiring garbage in the name of 'progress' when actually the joy of being a United fan has gone.
  33. Feb 11, 2018
    #33

    Fracture90 Full Member

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    Don't mind watching slow buildup as long as we can actually crate something from it. As for now we are creating shiit from it, most of our goals/chances come from counter attacks.
  34. Feb 11, 2018
    #34

    RedStarUnited Full Member

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    Has to be a message from the manager. If Im Pogba or even Matic, why would I want Smalling to be responsible of bring out the ball?
  35. Feb 11, 2018
    #35

    Josep Dowling Full Member

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    I couldn’t of said it better myself.
  36. Feb 11, 2018
    #36

    worldinmotion66 Full Member Scouse Lover

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    Smalling looked awesome under LVG because the defensive line was high, meaning he had only small passes to execute and was able to utilise his best defensive attributes - namely tight marking and nicking the ball in front of attackers, and recovery pace and strength. He's a good defender but very uncomfortable on the ball.

    The main issue in this team, however, is the lack of movement. Jones is quite capable of playing forward passes and can bring the ball out from the back, but they don't have the options and are clearly being instructed to give the ball to the full backs. I'd rather see a high line, high pressing and attacking full backs. Play through the middle, through Matic and Herrera, leaving Pogba free to roam more and our wide players complete freedom to move infield. Spurs and City have battered us playing this way and Liverpoo have blitzed many teams in the first half of games this season. It suits the players we have much better too.
  37. Feb 11, 2018
    #37

    Hansa Full Member

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    My thoughts exactly.

    Anyway, it just seems to be a default setting in too many of the players - whenever a forward pass isn't 100% on, turn and pass backwards. Do not attempt to go past your opponent. Slow everything down. Keep waiting for that one error we'll exploit.

    Very frustrating to watch.
  38. Feb 11, 2018
    #38

    Reddevildans Full Member

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    Agree mourinho really needs to have a word. Smalling is a terrible footballer at his feet and the other defenders aren't much better. Its the main reason we lack urgency when behind or needing to chase a goal.
  39. Feb 11, 2018
    #39

    el3mel Full Member

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    Only solution is to get better CBs and fullbacks with the ball so they can move the ball forward quickly under pressure, not always looking for a fecking back pass.
  40. Feb 11, 2018
    #40

    gavdim2002 New Member

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    It is not rocket science. Pass the ball on your 1st or 2nd touch when you can. Play people in by passing 5 yeards ahead of your teammate instead of 5 years behind. Find open space before and after your pass. If you play "crisp-football" in this way it is not all important to pass it forward all the time, instead you work your opposition and take your chances and openings when these do occur. Can it be true that these basics of football is not coached into our players week in and week out - it surely dose not look like it many a time ... like today.