If all we did is focus on fitness it would be our best summer since Fergie

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Saf94, Jul 9, 2019.

  1. Jul 10, 2019
    #81

    sunama Baghdad Bob

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    We need to win the league.
    Big clubs hatch plans which involve bringing in the right managers. The right players. The right coaches. Creating an academy which can produce 1 player a season, who is good enough to play in the first team. This takes time and costs a lot of money.

    I have a better plan. A plan so cunning that we'll take everybody by surprise and will yield stellar results, almost over night. Here it is:

    Let's keep our existing squad, which is rotten to the core.
    Let's keep our existing manager, who won't complain when we buy players from the Championship and renew contacts of the players who have consistently failed us for many years.
    Then, we shall make our squad work on their fitness.
    That's it. Simple.


    But beware. We must keep this plan top secret. If struggling teams like Huddersfield become aware of this cunning plan, they will soon be competing alongside us, for the Champions League. Teams like Madrid, who are currently rebuilding and spending huge sums of money to take them back to the top, don't what the hell they are doing. They are buying quality proven players and have re-hired their multiple CL winning manager. Their plan won't work...but my plan will absolutely work.
  2. Jul 10, 2019
    #82

    bond19821982 Full Member

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    Shades of Moyes era. Still remember Phil Nevilles interview where they were asked to run a lot and no team would outrun Moyes everton in the season.

    We have had enough talks. Just show it on the pitch.
  3. Jul 10, 2019
    #83

    UncleBob Full Member

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    It's rather simple, the following claim is made: "Moyes, LvG and Jose all complained and tried to improve our fitness but the only thing that will really work is replacing half the team."

    I ask for documentation in regards to this claim, you jumped in with an irrelevant link in an attempt to defend the claim.
  4. Jul 10, 2019
    #84

    DoomSlayer Full Member

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    Totally agree. Moyes was a dinosaur anyway and had no real man management skills. Ole is a proper legend and will inspire this squad to get busy and work harder than ever. If they don't do it after such a pre-season, Solskjaer will make sure it is known and whoever doesn't deserve to play, won't.

    I will even support him in playing youth players and the likes of Tuanzebe, Garner, Gomes and Greenwood if the senior players are fecking about again. Ole knows what the minimum requirements should be and commitment, applying yourself 100% and being in the best possible physical form is absolutely vital to that. I'm sure the tactical and systematic changes will shine through if the preparations go accordingly.
  5. Jul 11, 2019
    #85

    Grande Full Member

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    That Moyes increased amounts and intensity of fitness training was pointed out by several players (Rooney, Ferdinand, Van Persie). I notified about a link to Van Persie. That is clearly relevant to the claim. You can see that, can’t you?

    My link was in an answer to roonster about another issue. I mentioned it to you as it was relevant to the claim of Smores in a post where I in fact disagree with most of what he wrote. Your continued insistence of calling this ‘jumping in’ and ‘attempt to defend’, makes me think you have a overly dramatical for-or-against view of the world that you try to fit this into. That’s in my opinion a bad template for an internet discussion.
  6. Jul 11, 2019
    #86

    UncleBob Full Member

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    It's not relevant to the claim. The claim was that all three complained about the player fitness levels at Manchester United. Either there's a link to comments made by the various managers or there isn't one. Van Persie, reportedly being unhappy that he was suddenly no longer allowed to maintain his own fitness, due to his injury history, does not validate the claim.

    You keep insisting that it's a valid point, and you keep defending something you then claim you're not defending. It's somewhat bizarre, and i'm not sure why you're walking in circles.
  7. Jul 11, 2019
    #87

    Grande Full Member

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    Why did you suddenly remove half the claim since last post, incidentaly the part of the claim my link was relevant to?

    Moyes, LvG and Jose all complained and tried to improve our fitness but the only thing that will really work is replacing half the team. ‘

    To spell it out, we’ve got a claim in several parts. ‘A, B and C did 1 and 2, but should have done 3’.

    There are six fact claims and one prediction claim in this. Fact claims: A did 1, A did 2, B did 1, B did etc. Prediction claim: it would have lead to another/better outcome to do 3.

    What is relevat to this claim? Anything that supports or weakens any one of the fact claims is relevant. There is a profound difference between information being relevant to a claim, information valididating part of a claim, and information proving or validating the entire claim as a whole. Information validating the claim ‘A did 1’ is in itself relevant, even as it does not validate the other parts of the claim. Ergo, info validating or supporting the fact claim ‘Moyes tried to improve fitness (at Man United’ is relevant. And it is not synonymous to defending the entire claim.

    There is no problem for me to simultaneously have an unverified opinion about another fact claim (I’m quite inclined to believe Moyes complained about fitness at United, if not to anyone elsa than his wife, Lumsden or Van Persie) even if I don’t have A Link to it. There is no problem for me to simultaneously disagree with another fact claim (I can’t remember Van Gaal saying anything about needing to improve fitness regime apart from possibly Shaw or Schweinsteiger) without being able to link to it. Neither is it a problem for me to disagree with the opinion stated by the poster (in fact, I think we did change half the team, and it didn’t provide a better outcome, and I don’t think changing half the team now will lead to a better outcome either).

    Pointing to relevant information in a case is not synonymous with ‘defending’ any particular position.

    And writing one line and posting it in a thread open to all members of an internet forum, in order to try to be helpful, is not in any reasonable interpretation synonymous with ‘jumping’.

    Apologies to all and any innocent bystanders for this overkill of a post. Count me out of the discussion of this particular point from now on.
  8. Jul 11, 2019
    #88

    MUFC OK Full Member

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    Count me out. I've no idea why but today is the day I've thrown in the towel on the prospect of us achieving anything above an 8th placed finish this season, I think it could be as low as 9th if leicester, everton and wolves kick on.
  9. Jul 11, 2019
    #89

    UncleBob Full Member

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    :lol:

    Something must have snapped considering how far you've stretched this one.

    Let me have a go at this game: "‘Moyes, LvG and Jose all complained and tried to improve our fitness but the only thing that will really work is replacing half the team"

    It's true, Jose complained a lot about things in general.

    But alas it's not 6 claims. It's one claim lobbed at the general state of the squad, how 3 different managers all complained about the squads fitness and how all of them tried to improve it, but the only thing that would work would be to replace half the team.
  10. Jul 11, 2019
    #90

    Stacks Full Member

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    fitness is nice but what about the technical and mental aspects of our players. some lack tactical intelligence as well as having questionable attitudes as well as technical frailties. I feel solving fitness will not suddenly turn us into a good side. There are championship teams who run a lot
  11. Jul 11, 2019
    #91

    Lee565 Full Member

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    But how many will actually put 100% into such training?

    Sanchez and Fred are not there, pogba and lukaku may not enjoy such a gruelling training regime and think they dont have to take it seriously with one eye on a move away from the club, then you have a player like Martial that has that laid back approach who can never see changing the way he plays on the pitch, then there are certain players that just can't improve much more no matter what due to their legs being on the way out like Mata, Matic and Young.

    Then there's the fact that we only have two summer additions taking part and only 1 of them is a 1st team member.
  12. Jul 12, 2019
    #92

    Murder on Zidane's Floor You'd better not kill Giroud

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    If people don't think fitness in sport is important. Play a game of squash and watch your consistency and your technique desert you as slowly start fatiguing.

    Hell, watch your ability to control the ball, hit the target from 18 yards after running 10kms at a decent pace.

    Naturally you need skill, ability and technique but if you're gassed after fifty minutes, then you'll be a passenger and all that skill will be utterly useless.
  13. Jul 12, 2019
    #93

    Sterling Archer Full Member

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    From even Sunday league level of football it's quite clear how much better fitness lends to better mental aspects,decision making etc
  14. Jul 12, 2019
    #94

    Stacks Full Member

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    Sunday league footballers are typically unfit so this is a strange example. Pro footballers are already athletes.
  15. Jul 12, 2019
    #95

    Sterling Archer Full Member

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    Lukaku Charlie Adam
    I rest my case
  16. Jul 12, 2019
    #96

    Stacks Full Member

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    Lukaku is an athlete. He can sprint fast and run 10km in a match. Sunday league players cannot do this. Charlie Adam too
  17. Jul 13, 2019
    #97

    Bondi77 New Member

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    I think it is a no brainer!
    Stevie Wonder could see that Citeh and Liverpool were the two hardest working sides last season and we were one of the laziest. If the players really respect the manager and want to have the fans consistently behind them they should have nothing left in the tank at the end of the game.
    As the saying goes, ‘No pain No gain’
  18. Jul 13, 2019
    #98

    Bondi77 New Member

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    On the subject of LVG that goes down in my opinion as one of the worst periods in our history;
    Not only was the football similar to watching grass grow and watching paint dry his selection of player to bring to the club was horrendous With Martial the exception
    Rashford got his break through injuries but I remember Blackett and Bothwick Jackson getting games meanwhile we are selling; Zaha,Keane,Evans and Chicarito.
    The only entertainment I witnessed during his tenure was on the touch line and the press conferences.
  19. Jul 13, 2019
    #99

    Sterling Archer Full Member

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    Ok so I was only humoring you and gone a bit off track. You've missed the original point completely - you don't have to be a world class athlete to recognize that tiring physically leads to lapses and errors, affects the mental side of things. We see this in all levels of sport. I found this to be quite true in my high school and college teams. That's several steps up from Sunday league, but I used that in hopes it was more relatable. Seems you haven't much personal experience with any sort of athletic activity?

    As an aside, my Sunday league includes players that participate in triathlons and many who were former college players. Even in there late 20s early 30s they are more 'athletic' than the two aforementioned pros (note: I'm referring and poking fun specifically at Lukaku of last season for going from an actual pro athlete to an overweight has been that's out of breath from a couple sprints)
  20. Jul 13, 2019

    Stacks Full Member

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    Played Semi Pro football as well as county football. Played county in Rugby, trained with one professional club as a youth so there ;).
  21. Jul 13, 2019

    AkaAkuma Full Member

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    I wouldn't class militao, Mendy or jovic proven at all.
  22. Jul 13, 2019

    Sterling Archer Full Member

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    Then you agree there is the link