If Spurs fall out of the top 4 this year...

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Rozay, Dec 2, 2017.

  1. Dec 7, 2017

    GlastonSpur Also disliked on an Aston Villa forum

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    What club chair would ever come out and talk publicly about what wages they are or are not prepared to pay?

    The priority for several years past has been to put any spare money into our new training centre and then our new stadium complex. The training centre is all finished apart from the ongoing construction of a player lodge/overnight accommodation. The stadium will be finished in 9 months time and then the only remaining construction project will be the adjacent hotel, apartments and houses. Debt servicing has been ongoing during this period.

    All of this means that the focus of Spurs expenditure will soon be much less on construction costs and so can switch more into two areas: debt principal repayment and player wages/player recruitment.

    Much higher income and much less construction costs: it stands to reason that more money will be available for player wages.
  2. Dec 7, 2017

    Dante Turns into Billy Blaggs when drunk

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    It doesn't matter how good the stadium is, Spurs will never be able to compete financially with United, City or Chelsea. That leaves them fighting for fourth more years than not.

    To be the fourth best team, their 62k stadium needs to give them a leg up over Arsenal (with a 61k stadium) and Liverpool (with a 54k stadium). The problem is that the latter two have much bigger fanbases and much greater revenues from alternative streams around the world.

    Baring some extremely fortunate timing (like the collapse of the big clubs a couple of seasons ago), they aren't going to be consistently in the top 4 for the foreseeable future. Sure, they'll get into it from time to time, but they'll be sharing the berth with a couple of other larger clubs over the short to mid-term.
  3. Dec 7, 2017

    Cheesy Bread with dipping sauce

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    I don't think it'd be particularly disastrous - recent years have shown you can fall outside the top four and recover fairly quickly. Quite literally the only side it's not happened to in the past half-decade is City.

    Long-term Spurs will obviously struggle to compete financially with United, City and Chelsea, as well as Liverpool and Arsenal to an extent, which naturally means they'll depend on efficient management and maximising the resources they do have. If they can continue to do that then they'll stand a decent chance of competing.
  4. Dec 7, 2017

    OverratedOpinion Full Member

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    Won't really affect them, they have far lower expectations and expenditures than clubs like Utd or Chelsea. The truth is that them falling out of the top 4 was to be expected and it will most likely be pretty standard over the next few years, alternating between 4th and 5th place. They happened to have a world class striker come through there ranks around the same time Chelsea had a terrible year and we declined ourselves, was never a true indicator of what would happen going forward.
  5. Dec 7, 2017

    Wessex Saint Full Member

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    I find this post, while true, very depressing and why I think football is such a farce these days. While I do love my club, I have to ask what the point of being in a competition is where you have little chance of winning or even coming in the top 4 or 5. I was going to say top 6, but we did do that the other season, but still, it all seems fairly pointless. I have now got to the stage where I often trundle along with my season ticket, wondering what I am doing, sit there with a certain ambivalence, and then trundle home. I could name you the clubs that are going to be top 6 this season, next season, the season after that ad nauseam, and I would either be 100% correct or pretty close to 100%.
  6. Dec 7, 2017

    GlastonSpur Also disliked on an Aston Villa forum

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    Spurs’ Director of finance and operations recently estimated Spurs matchday income would increase by £60m annually.

    Naming rights: as yet unknown, but I'll conservatively estimate this at £20m per year (but think it will be more, some rumours say £40m).

    NFL income: as yet hard to estimate, but a set fee (I don't know how much) for each game (2 games per year minimum). The NFL has already put up £10m towards construction costs.

    Entertainment events income (e.g. e-sports, music concerts): again hard to estimate at this time, but some estimates say between £0.5m - £1m per event. We'll be allowed 16 per year of these, so maybe £8m - 16m income from these.

    Increase in income from merchandising: who knows.

    Income from new 180 bedroom hotel with 49 serviced apartments: no idea.

    Income from misc. associated facilities - e.g. extreme sports centre, multi-use games area - your guess is as good as mine.

    Increase in other sponsorship deals (naming rights aside): this is the big unknown, but potentially the biggest earner of all. The prestige of a state-of-the-art new stadium in London, one that hosts a variety of events and has an NFL tie-up (American audiences etc.) .... how long is a piece of string?

    And if the NFL deal was to evolve into an actual NFL franchise - a big IF at this point, but clearly Levy is aiming for it - then the sky's the limit in terms of income boosting.
  7. Dec 7, 2017

    GlastonSpur Also disliked on an Aston Villa forum

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    See post #206 above.
  8. Dec 7, 2017

    adexkola American Arse

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    Is a NFL franchise in London anything more than talk at this moment? The games across the pond are fair enough (actually, Jaguars should just relocate to London) but anything other than a relocation would be incredibly complicated.
  9. Dec 7, 2017

    mayurr New Member

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    To be honest i think spurs have been massively lucky all these 3-4 years. like having harry kane, to grabbing dele alli, to not having big injuries, to nobody cherry picking them.

    3-4 yrs back when harry kane came along i dont think even spurs knew what they are getting in him , i dont know the exact stats but i guess he has scored around 25+ goals on average in last few years . To get such talent from your ranks is massive boost.

    Then you look at their squad strength, just so fookingly dependent on kane , and still they havent really faced the scenario of missing him on a long stretch . Barring kane and alli they dont have many goals in them. Dont have anybody to replace kane

    Then you look at having players like kane, erikson, loris, vertonghen on their ranks for past 4 yrs , and i dont think they really pay that much to hold on to such performers without winning anything. You Wonder why no big club digs in for these players. ( May be due to the tough bald nut they have in the office)

    I think this season if they dont consolidate or miss the bus their will be repercussions.
  10. Dec 7, 2017

    oneniltothearsenal Full Member

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    Until the NFL has franchises in both Canada and Mexico then a London one has zero chance.
  11. Dec 7, 2017

    Hawks2008 Full Member

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    If Spurs fall out of the top 4 it won't surprise me. They've benefited from other top clubs around them under-performing for the past few years and it seems like United, Chelsea and City have properly got their shit together now. If they drop out I don't see Alderweireld and Rose sticking around, I could see Eriksen (Woody please) or Alli snapped up by big teams, but Poch Kane will stay on or the foreseeable future at least. It'd be a bit hilarious if they don't make it. After all the fuss Spurs fans are making over their new soulless corporate dome, it wont really elevate them if they miss top 4 and lose their stars.
  12. Dec 7, 2017

    notcool Full Member

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  13. Dec 7, 2017

    Nanook Full Member

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    Naming rights for the stadium won’t be close to £20m per year, in fact you’d be lucky to get half of that.
  14. Dec 7, 2017

    InLevyITrust Full Member

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    I was laughing as you just posted as if you will sign all 3 in the summer. Rose woll leave in January of the Summer, I don't believe Dele will leave this Summer, simply because I don't see any big club coming in for him.
  15. Dec 7, 2017

    TwoSheds More sheds than you, probably

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    They don't need Rose or Alli. Probably don't even need Pochettino as long as they get lucky with timing of their recruitment. E.g. maybe Marco Silva would do a good job there.

    Problem comes if Kane or Eriksen want to leave. They'll really lack quality in attack without them.
  16. Dec 7, 2017

    We need an rvn Full Member

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    I don't see us signing Alli either, he's Madrid bound me thinks. Especially as he's just signed up with that new agency and your wage structure. The kid will be demanding £250k+ for his next contract and I don't see you paying that. Rose we might get this winter or next summer and I also don't see you selling Kane to us either.

    Was just saying out of the 3 players, the only one I can see staying is Kane.
  17. Dec 7, 2017

    InLevyITrust Full Member

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    On this season's form I cannot see any club paying him £250K a week, never mind the transfer fee Levy would demand, he's only 21 remember. I agree he will move on from us in the future but it wont be this summer, he hasn't actually changed his agent, just the company that handles his commercial side in order to build up his brand.

    In all honesty if he moved to Real this summer it would ruin him unless he hit the ground running and was an instant success, he simply isn't ready for it.
  18. Dec 7, 2017

    GlastonSpur Also disliked on an Aston Villa forum

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    Lol ... it's the same old narrative of convenient excuses from some on here, namely that if Spurs do well in the league it's only because either other clubs have "under-performed" or else Spurs have "over-performed".

    It was a similar would-be explanation with Spurs getting an away draw and then a home win against Real Madrid: it was only apparently because the latter weren't "playing seriously".

    And it's apparently a similarly convenient (and mysterious) "luck" - see post #209 above - that has allowed Spurs to develop a talented squad
  19. Dec 7, 2017

    acnumber9 Full Member

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    And yet here we are with Spurs a mile off the top 2.
  20. Dec 7, 2017

    thegregster Harbinger of new information

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    The hotel part is currently not viable and construction of it has been stopped.
  21. Dec 7, 2017

    InLevyITrust Full Member

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    Who cares about second, "not as if anyone remembers the runners up" :D.
  22. Dec 7, 2017

    acnumber9 Full Member

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    That's very true.
  23. Dec 7, 2017

    acnumber9 Full Member

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    Why wouldn't mid table Spurs conservatively expect almost four times as much as Bayern Munich get for their naming rights?
  24. Dec 7, 2017

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

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    The NFL want it to happen and have been working to that effect for 10 years.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2017/sep/22/nfl-london-team-wembley-ravens-jaguars

    I think it will probably happen.

    Interestingly there is already a transatlantic team in a more fringe sport, Rugby League. The Toronto Wolf Pack play in the English league, with a New York based team also looking to join next season.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Wolfpack

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/41631148
  25. Dec 7, 2017

    GlastonSpur Also disliked on an Aston Villa forum

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    And yet here we are with Spurs top of their CL group and having the best group record of any of the 32 teams despite being in probably the hardest group.

    As for the Prem, the season has a long way to go ...
  26. Dec 7, 2017

    acnumber9 Full Member

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    It certainly does have a long way to go. Even more time for the gap to increase. Especially given Spurs have had the kinder fixture list to date.

    It would be a stretch to call it the hardest group when two teams only ended up with 2 points.
  27. Dec 7, 2017

    Random Task Full Member

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    Indeed, plenty of time to drop more points.
  28. Dec 7, 2017

    GlastonSpur Also disliked on an Aston Villa forum

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    Not correct. Full construction has been put back, not stopped.
  29. Dec 7, 2017

    GlastonSpur Also disliked on an Aston Villa forum

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    That's easy to say in hindsight, but when the group was drawn people were singing a very different tune. And a prime reason why Dortmund only got 2 points is that Spurs beat them home and way.
  30. Dec 7, 2017

    sun_tzu The Art of Bore

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    And Harry Kane leaving when you miss out on the top 4 - Priceless!
  31. Dec 7, 2017

    AXVnee7 Full Member

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    Spurs will hope their form picks up quickly during this congested winter period as they face trips to Anfield, and the Bridge next year. Plus Arsenal and Utd at Wembley and with these 2 teams Wembley is neutral ground at best for them. They still have to play twice vs Man City but none of the top teams have done well vs them so far so there's more leeway in those fixtures.

    I think they have us, Liverpool and Arsenal in a row or something very close to that. That'll be significant in their top 4 challenge.
  32. Dec 7, 2017

    GBBQ Full Member

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    Definitely the group of death at the time of the draw but Real Madrid and Dortmund have not been at the races all season domestically and are 8 and 10 points (respectively) off the lead. So using Spur's performance in the CL as an impressive standard when they are 18 points of the league leaders after 15 games doesn't hold much water!
  33. Dec 7, 2017

    acnumber9 Full Member

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    It is but to call it the toughest group now would be incredibly disingenuous. It would require you to judge Dortmund on name and we all know you hate that. The prime reason they had two points is because their only points came in two draws against Apoel Nicosia. Not the sign of a particularly good team.
  34. Dec 7, 2017

    AR87 Full Member

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    It's obvious it's just a way of deflecting from a disappointing domestic campaign. Spurs have been excellent in Europe and poor in the PL. I still back them to get top 4 over Liverpool and Arsenal, but they're not as good as they were last season. Lamela and Wanyama returning will give them a boost, but it also seems quite clear they miss the dynamism of Walker and Rose.
  35. Dec 7, 2017

    TwoSheds More sheds than you, probably

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    Lamela is bang average and has been out for, what, 2 years? Wanyama is a boost true. But enough to start putting in a title challenge? And nobody else is getting injured between now and the end of the season?
  36. Dec 7, 2017

    InLevyITrust Full Member

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    You see this is the kind of post that is absolutely inflammatory and pretty well incorrect, when was the last time Tottenham finished mid table?

    Also the naming rights for a stadium in London, playing in the most watched league in the world has a massive influence on how much its worth. There is a reason the TV deals are worth so much here, its not really a reflection on the team but what exposure a company wants from naming rights of a stadium. While I don't think we can expect £25M a year I think we can expect to be looking at in or around £15M a year.

    Mate are you serious, Lamela has been out for 2 years? You watch your football I see :lol:.
  37. Dec 7, 2017

    Gee Male Full Member

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    18 points behind City after 15 games.

    fecking hell thats nuts. And still they've their neck stuck out on here. Fair play lads.
  38. Dec 7, 2017

    InLevyITrust Full Member

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    Who is sticking their neck out?
  39. Dec 7, 2017

    Rhyme Animal Modmins said "freeze" and I got numb

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    Out of interest, where do you think these 4 would/could possibly go if they did leave Spurs...

    Kane
    Alli
    Eriksen
    Pochettino
  40. Dec 7, 2017

    Nanook Full Member

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    West Ham can’t find a stadium sponsor are they’re only aiming for £4-6m per season.