Iniesta vs Zidane

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by TheNewEra, Jan 11, 2016.

?

Who was greater in his prime ?

Poll closed Jun 4, 2016.
  1. Iniesta

    36.1%
  2. Zidane

    63.9%
  1. Nov 28, 2018

    Sir Scott McToMinay Full Member

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    Less cross-field passes I suppose, honestly Cross-field passes are not all that hard to execute when you have Valencia completely isolated on the right.
    But I have to agree that Scholes was more entertaining than Xavi, he scored some absolute classic bangers over the years, and he had those crazy tackles every second game, Xavi was less adventurous player than Scholes in those regards.
  2. Nov 28, 2018

    Ishdalar Full Member

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    I don't want to argue for the sake of doing it, or to prove a point, I just wanted to state my opinion.

    If you think Xavi was just another good player then you probably didn't have the pleasure of watching him in the half season Antic was with us, or the one he injured his knee with Rijkaard. He never got to that level of play again even when he started winning titles, but the fact that injuries and inept managers made him play as a DMC doesn't take away his class those years.

    The same could be said about Iniesta, we lost some of his best years with him playing as a false winger because our midfield was stacked, history might make justice with Xavi and Iniesta on the long run, same way most people have forgotten about Zidane days in Juve after Del Piero got injured.

    Well that's the first thing about Iniesta, he was one of the first media wonderkids that happened as a phenomenom here due to everyone being able to watch the U-12 tournament that Canal+ started a couple years before, so you didn't really need great scouts to spot him.

    He amazed a lot of people back in 96' and kept doing that for almost 22 years, I don't think that him playing for Barcelona should be something that diminishes his legacy, we weren't what we are today pre-Iniesta, neither as a club or as a youth academy, and players like him are what gave the club arguments to bet on that model as big as we've done lately.

    It's always the same thing with this theme, did our good job at base level help guys like Iniesta thrive and hence it's not that special compared to others, or did guys like Iniesta help elevate our expectations in our method so much that now everyone thinks if you're a prospect you have half the road covered?.
  3. Nov 28, 2018

    Stacks Full Member

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    One cannot make claims about most fans as we don't get to encounter most fans.

    Scholes is both underrated and overrated at the same time. he is somewhere between the opinions of fans. Not the heights that some claim i.e. Xavi but then better than where opposition fans place him. The claims of putting him in the calibre of Xavi are simply not backed up when held up to scrutiny. quality little player though
  4. Nov 28, 2018

    adexkola Arsenal supporter

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    I'm convinced @Stacks was the tree Scholes kept on hitting in those stories.

    I think Xavi is a tier above Scholes but it's not that weird if United fans slightly overrate a key player for England's best side, that the rest of England chronically underrated and ignored.

    And any metric that makes Ramos out to be a world class defender is instantly trash. (The Ramos Test™ )
  5. Nov 28, 2018

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate

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    The thing about Xavi is that he would routinely make the craziest passes and make them look like it was nothing. At his peak, he is the best midfielder that I have ever seen.
  6. Nov 28, 2018

    Stacks Full Member

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    2 European cups to Zidane's 1.............
  7. Nov 28, 2018

    adexkola Arsenal supporter

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    Way more exciting? A tad bit more, probably. The teams Scholes played in were more dynamic, so I understand that. But talking about the actual players. The great thing about Scholes was that he had his moments, but in most games he just did the simple shit really really well, at a world class level (same with Keane). And I think that is part of the reason why he was, and is underappreciated, and yet ended up with a feck ton of trophies.

    Xavi did that but at a higher level of excellence. Which is why some people in this thread are calling him boring. Then feck, go watch freestyle football then
  8. Nov 28, 2018

    Prometheus Full Member

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    True, but let me fuel the debate and say that Zidane had two majestic world cup campaigns to Iniesta's one.
  9. Nov 28, 2018

    soap Directionless weirdo who like booze and ganja

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    Have to agree with those saying Xavi was better than both! I love Scholes as much as the next Utd fan, but to say he was on the level of those 3 would be incredibly bias.
  10. Nov 28, 2018

    Sir Scott McToMinay Full Member

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    I didn’t say Scholes was “way more exciting than Xavi”, I actually completely agree with what you’re saying.
  11. Nov 28, 2018

    adexkola Arsenal supporter

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    Did Zidane ever own a league or CL season? You don't have to win a league or CL to dominate in it (he didn't win WC 06 but was definitely the star)... but did he ever dominate a league/CL season? He had that goal at Hampton Park but was that him just showing up in the final or did he do that in the semi and QF...
  12. Nov 28, 2018

    De Portago Full Member

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    1998 was not majestic, he scored two goals in the final....That's all. If it wasn't for Thuram, they wouldn't have been there in the first place. Also team was without him for a couple of games due to a moronic red card and barely missed a beat. Probably the most single overrated tournament in recent years, alongside Sneijder in 2010.
  13. Nov 28, 2018

    adexkola Arsenal supporter

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    Ah, misread that. Then we're on the same page
  14. Nov 28, 2018

    Balu Full Member

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    Zidane was probably the biggest disappointment of the 1998 World Cup up until the final. He was pretty underwhelming throughout, got himself sent off in the group stages and missed a knockout round. Then got saved by his defenders who not only were exceptional at the back, but also scored crucial goals. Thuram scored his only 2 goals of his international career in the semifinal. Obviously Zidane was sensational in the final, but saying he had a majestic world cup campagin in 1998 is dishonest. He had one great game and only because his brilliant teammates saved the team throughout the whole tournament until he finally showed up.
  15. Nov 28, 2018

    Peyroteo Professional Ronaldo PR Guy

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    Even 2006 wasn't that great either, very good but certainly not as good as it's remembered anyway. One great game vs Brazil but what happened in the final skewed people's perspective.

    Winning player of the tournament wasn't really fair, Pirlo should have won it.
  16. Nov 28, 2018

    De Portago Full Member

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    His best international tournament bar none was Euro 2000, which is usually glossed over for some unknown reason.
  17. Nov 28, 2018

    Le Red New Member

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    Arguably the two best playmakers in the history of the game. Absolute legends, but I believe Zidane is one step above. He was unreal.
  18. Nov 28, 2018

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate

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    If I'm not mistaken he dominated the 2000/2001 Serie A season but you will have to ask older folks. He was also a lot more fun to watch at that time.


  19. Nov 28, 2018

    Le Red New Member

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    Still, it was one of the best individual performances of all time against a fearsome Brazilian squad. It was stuff of the Gods.
  20. Nov 28, 2018

    Balu Full Member

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    Fully agree with both of you. Euro 2000 was all time great level by Zidane. Actually a bit similar to Platini's brilliance in 84, which was even better than Zidane in 2000. Both don't have an overall all time great World Cup though. The best World Cup performance by a French player is still Kopa in 1958.
  21. Nov 28, 2018

    Stacks Full Member

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    True. And this is absolutely fine. It's just the company of players that people try to place him alongside that makes me take exception. Being compared with Xavi, Zidane, Iniesta and co, when I see NO ENGLISH MIDFIELDER in the last 30 years, on that level, not just Scholesey. I will happily tell a Pool and Chelsea fan that Iniesta and Xavi are much better than Gerrard and Lampard. call me an Anglophobe, I don't care. there are levels. What these guys did on the European AND International stage (not just EPL), was unprecedented and puts them levels above. Also how they decimated top teams and players to prove their superiority. These Spaniards gave me nightmares. Zidane and Figo too, during the early 2000's when they kept wreaking us. I cannot say that many of our English lads have this same clout (although Gerrard had a great 2005 tourney) so I feel the comparisons are misleading. sorry x
  22. Nov 28, 2018

    Stacks Full Member

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    Yes, he was regularly one of the leading CL contributors, hence his sides making it all the way to finals.

    97 season 10GP, 2GS, 6A(assists)
    98 season 11GP, 3GS, 8A
    2002 season 9GP, 3GS, 2A
    2003 season 14GP, 3GS, 7A

    he was frequently contributing a goal a game or near to that in the top competition.
  23. Nov 28, 2018

    Gio 6 times Redcafe Draft Winner

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    His Champions League record is very impressive in my book.
  24. Nov 28, 2018

    Stacks Full Member

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    the guys a genius. Him and Iniesta with their tight control and quick feet can get out of any situation.
  25. Nov 28, 2018

    11101 Full Member

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    In a team with Messi, Ronaldinho, Henry, Iniesta and so on, Xavi was never the star. The attention was on them. All the Wikipedia links and made up awards you like won't change that. That's not to say he wasn't the best all round midfielder most of us have ever seen, he was just the one who did his thing quietly and without fuss.

    Scholes dominated when he was in his peak as a central midfielder. Other than Xavi i never saw anyone in his position who was clearly better than him, Iniesta and Zidane were a different type of midfielder.

    When he sat out the CL finals he was 35 and 37... not sure what you expect against a team like Barcelona.
  26. Nov 28, 2018

    DWelbz19 Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016

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    Agreed. Easily so.
  27. Nov 28, 2018

    RooneyLegend Full Member

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    Sometimes it really is this simple.
  28. Nov 28, 2018

    Suedesi Full Member

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    Jesus Christ man, if you're going to use that kind of microscope, then, you can't turn around and say Xavi and Iniesta dominated in 2010. I posit to you that Spain only made it past the group stages after a Torres dive with Chile, and Spain went through against Paraguay (saving a PK when it was 0-0) due to Casillas saving a penalty when the score was 0:0. Spain also got saved by Iker in the final when he thwarted Robben who was bearing on goal with the score tied at 0:0.

    For all the supposed Xavi and Iniesta domination, they scraped-by more than a few times to be saved Casillas and David Villa who kept scoring the decisive goals (Honduras, Chile, Portugal, Paraguay).

    Call me old-fashioned but when it comes to domination, I prefer to win 7-1 like Germany against Brazil (or 7-0 like Bayern vs Barcelona), not scraping by the odd goal which Spain did throughout 2010.
  29. Nov 28, 2018

    RooneyLegend Full Member

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    That's not what Lippi thinks.
  30. Nov 28, 2018

    goin4glory Full Member

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    If you don't want to count the world cup then no problem. I was responding to a poster who brought up the world cup. Also Villa went on to play for Barca and was immense at Valencia, Silva too. Torres was at the time the best pure striker in the world, he finished 3rd in the Ballon D'or voting in 2008 so I struggle to see how this enhances your argument in any way.

    You're seriously questioning why Xavi wasn't ever mentioned in the same breath as Scholes/Zidane and using his age as a reason? You do realise this is a thread comparing Iniesta to Zidane? Iniesta is 12 years younger than Zidane too.
  31. Nov 28, 2018

    De Portago Full Member

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    I don't need to conflate team performances with individual performances. France won EURO 2000 with both semi and final going into extra time, they scraped through also. It means nothing. I just feel that Zidane was superior in 2000, and not by a small margin either.
  32. Nov 28, 2018

    Suedesi Full Member

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    Look, the whole French team was better in 2000 - more mature more confidence, better personnel - they were playing with Henry and Trezeguet instead of Guivarch and Dugarry upfront - so that clearly would have a direct effect on the effectiveness of the playmaker. Zidane was magnificent in 2000.

    I disagree with those who say Zidane got bailed out by his teammates in 1998 (some poster mentioned Thuram scoring, forgetting that Thuram's mistake resulted in Suker's goal in the first place), when he clearly was the best player for France during the tournament and was by far the best player in the toughest match, which is of course, Brazil in the final.

    So the narrative I'm reading here from some posters goes that Zidane got bailed out by his teammates in 1998 whereas Xavi and Iniesta dominated world football in 2010 with a bunch of 1-0 (and some amazing Casillas saves).
  33. Nov 28, 2018

    Suedesi Full Member

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    Btw, I'd like Ed to hire Zidane as our next coach!

    After winning a couple of CL's with us, you'll all forget about Scholes, Xavi and Iniesta :D
  34. Nov 28, 2018

    Infordin Full Member

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    Xavi created 30 chances at the 2010 World Cup.

    Zidane created 12 in 2006 and 14 in 1998.

    In other words, Xavi created more chances in 2010 than Zidane did in 1998 and 2006 combined.

    Pirlo created 24 chances at the 2006 World Cup, and was overall vastly superior to Zidane that tournament.
  35. Nov 28, 2018

    Infordin Full Member

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    Zidane's game against Brazil in 2006 is the most comically overrated performance of all time.

    It wasn't even the best individual performance from a midfielder that tournament, Pirlo against Germany was better.
  36. Nov 28, 2018

    Peyroteo Professional Ronaldo PR Guy

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    Spain didn’t create 30 chances in the whole tournament, nevermind just Xavi...
  37. Nov 28, 2018

    De Portago Full Member

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    Let's agree to disagree. You feel his level was the same, I just don't. There's no point going back and forth.
  38. Nov 28, 2018

    Infordin Full Member

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    Xavi WC 2010:

    7 games, 635 minutes played, 657 passes total (93 passes per 90 minutes), 91.2 % passing accuracy, 83.3 % passing accuracy in opposition half, 57.6 % duels won, 34 recoveries, 9 tackles won, 9 interceptions, 15 fouls won, 33.3 % successful crosses, 30 chances created

    Zidane WC 1998:

    5 games, 460 minutes played, 280 passes total (55 passes per 90 minutes), 80.4 % passing accuracy, 71.6 % passing accuracy in opposition half, 47.0 % duels won, 37 recoveries, 5 tackles won, 5 interceptions, 10 fouls won, 23.5 % successful crosses, 18 chances created

    Source: OPTA

    Btw, I was wrong about Zidane's 1998 World Cup. He created 18 chances, not 14. Nonetheless, my point stands.
  39. Nov 28, 2018

    Arbitrium Supposed to be taking a year off

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    These statistics really don't mean that much once you factor in the bolded.
  40. Nov 28, 2018

    Suedesi Full Member

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    :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

    That's 30 ;)