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Interesting opinion piece on Pogba

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Sassy Colin, Feb 19, 2018.

  1. Feb 19, 2018
    #1

    Sassy Colin Death or the gladioli!

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    Not the usual drivel and makes some interesting points, basically that the back 4 aren't good enough, which means he needs to play 2 holding to protect them, which holds back Pogba's ability to get forward.

    http://www.o-posts.com/teams/uk/manchester-united/pogba-future-united-back-four/
  2. Feb 19, 2018
    #2

    RedSky likes to kick 10-year-olds Scout

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    I've been saying that for a while. I don't think it interferes with Pogba though. He might have orders to get back and cover but he doesn't actually do it. The problem with our football is that:

    1. Our defense is not good enough and prone to errors.
    2. Our right wing is non existent and so we're fairly easy to defend against as teams know the majority of our attack comes down the left or middle.
  3. Feb 19, 2018
    #3

    rocks13 Banned

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    Basically, it seems that responsibility for Pogba's performances lie with everyone except Paul Pogba.
  4. Feb 19, 2018
    #4

    Raees Boing Boing Baggies

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    Juventus had the best defence in the world, 5 at the back and they still needed a three man midfield in order to let him roam.

    Even if we had the best defence in the world, I still wouldn't trust him in front of a back 4 - just doesn't have the mindset for it.
  5. Feb 19, 2018
    #5

    Zlatattack Full Member

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    Couldn't agree more.
  6. Feb 19, 2018
    #6

    Pexbo has never watched Star Wars

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    He was still a pup then and also their strength was in their midfield. Who was he going to bench?

    As he matures he needs to take on more responsibity.
  7. Feb 19, 2018
    #7

    SalfordRed1960 Full Member

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    An alternative view could be that the midfield is not good enough, hardly ever making themselves available, putting pressure on the back four or making them resort to hoofball. Countless times in each game we see no outlet when the back four have the ball and hence they end up doing something daft, going backwards or hoofing. The midfield also rarely keep up with the forwards, which weakens the attacking threat.

    As for us deploying 2 holding, I am not sure we have really employed that. I have never seen Pogba play a holding role. Sure he is not employed too often as purley an AM, but he is hardly ever just in front of the back four.
  8. Feb 19, 2018
    #8

    golden_blunder Dreaming of a return to 4-4-2 Staff

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    This. Personally think he’s overrated. He’s clearly got some skills which he could express in the geriatric pace of the serie A. For him to reach his potential in England he’s going to need the team and system built around him
  9. Feb 19, 2018
    #9

    Giggsy92 Full Member

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    I'm impressed that the author manages to get both members of our most infamous CM pairing of all time wrong.
  10. Feb 19, 2018
    #10

    Ish Lights on for Luke

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    Sounds about right. It's one thing to be asked to play a position you don't feel is your best.

    But it's quite another to lack the discipline, or effort, Pogba's displayed at times.
  11. Feb 19, 2018
    #11

    ThomasEmil Invisible Herrera Watcher

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    Pretty much, yea
  12. Feb 19, 2018
    #12

    Lentwood Full Member

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    I don't know if I buy that tbh, I just can't have that our defence is THAT bad

    We can argue the finer points about the defensive abilities (or lack thereof) of Chris Smalling and Phil Jones, but both have won PL titles in the past and have hundreds of appearances in the PL, Champions League and in International Tournaments. Likewise, Rojo is an Argentinian International and was arguably our best CB last year when we had the best defensive record in the league. Bailly is outstanding when fit and would get in almost any side in the world already.

    As for the full backs, criticism of Valencia seems more focused on his lack of ability going forward which is ironic considering he is a converted winger! Yes LB has been an issue, but again let's not forget that whether it's Blind, Darmian, Shaw or Young that have filled this position, they are all experienced top flight, International footballers

    Before it's bought up - I've never accepted that De Gea alone is responsible for our good defensive record. Keepers can only do so much. I can remember the odd game where De Gea has definitely impacted the result but I can also remember many where our opponents scored from their only shot(s) on target

    Finally, there are many teams with supposedly suspect defenders who don't seem to be as open and easy to get at as we are. You have to remember that top midfielders given time and space (as Shelvey was vs Newcastle or Eriksen vs Spurs) will invariably providing good supply into the forward players and it's then very difficult for individual defenders. I am much more likely to blame the midfield than the defence if we are being consistently over-run as the problems usually start much further up the pitch
  13. Feb 19, 2018
    #13

    Raees Boing Boing Baggies

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    Correct. But the question is do we want him to take more defensive responsibility or attacking responsibility and be the guy whose going to get 10-15 goals from midfield, countless assists and go win games.

    You have to look at him as a man/boy, what is going on through his head, what is his natural style of play. I understand that managers might have a certain system they want to play and mould players into playing a certain role for them, but there comes a point where you hold your hands up and think.. maybe this isn't for him, maybe he needs to play somewhere else which is more aligned with his mindset, his skillset and if he still isn't performing once you've gone to all the lengths to make him feel comfortable - you cut your losses.

    Both manager and player are equally to blame here. @Sterling Archer correctly pointed out that Pogba has these crazy big ideas of what he can become and Mourinho has entertained that and given him a platform to be this all-encompassing B2B midfielder.. but the truth is, he's too limited to be a powerhouse all-rounder. Pogba I think is fast realising that he has overreached with this midfield role and wants to go back to playing a more limited, but more unrestricted (in an attacking sense) role and I think Jose who might feel aggrieved that he's being made to look like the bad guy here, needs to just suck it up and acknowledge that Pogba who was making these big claims, just isn't the guy he thought he was getting for that CM role.

    Mourinho feels let down here, and I don't blame him. But both guys need to clear their heads, get over any beef.. and just focus on doing well for the club. Both their ego's have taken a blow over these past few weeks, but I am sure they can get over it.. we will eventually go to a proper 433 and hopefully Pogba can back it up with performances. If not, then genuinely won't have any issue with Jose binning him if it comes to it.
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
  14. Feb 19, 2018
    #14

    Wednesday at Stoke Full Member

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    He's 1/3 truly world class players at our club and if we have to bend over backwards with the rest of the side to get the best out of him, we should do it.
  15. Feb 19, 2018
    #15

    haram Full Member

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    He really should be doing better than he did vs Newcastle period. Yes a 3 man midfield will help him but there is a certain standard he should be at full stop.
  16. Feb 19, 2018
    #16

    RedSky likes to kick 10-year-olds Scout

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    I disagree with this mate. His save count is substantially higher than the rest of the keepers in the top 6. So question is why does De Gea have to save so many shots each game and if our defense is ok then how come Cech (we always laugh at the Arsenal defense) has had less shots to save?

    The question is who's responsible for the amount of shots coming through, Defense or Midfield? Or both? My opinion is that the Defense is too error prone and it leads us losing possession in our area. We're also pretty shit passing from the back, we take too many touches on the ball and that gives the opponents chance to close the space and make the next pass harder. I do think we need a 2nd midfielder alongside Matic though and Pogba isn't disciplined enough to get back.
  17. Feb 19, 2018
    #17

    ZenMaster Coltrane New Member

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    This is much closer to what's actually going on than some of these exasperating posts detail...how a player should play at max levels in any system or comparing Pogba to players that don't even resemble his skill set.

    The team has around 3-4 players that you could build a CL winning side around. The rest all need to be upgraded. The baseline is therefore low. When Pogba is not performing at a high level, the team is mediocre at best. You cannot compete in the long run with such glaring deficiencies. The man responsible for not properly addressing those deficiencies is Mourinho. Is his style of play best suited to United or Pogba, no.
  18. Feb 19, 2018
    #18

    Seveneric Full Member

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    The OT pitch probably needs to be examined, is it exactly the same as Juventus?

    The pitch might be too coarse or something, hindering Pogba's ability to run on it. United might have to get that fixed so he performs well.
  19. Feb 19, 2018
    #19

    BRRRRAP Banned

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    So, we have some people blaming the defenders for not being good enough playing out from the back and you and others are saying 'No it's the midfielders who aren't good enough' as they fail to find available space for the back four to pass to.

    This passing the buck, is a very sad state of affairs that reflects badly on the lack of cohesion of our playing style and on a pretty shyte team dynamic. Isn't the problem then one of a lack of communication and a failing of coaching to make sure players are singing from the same hymn sheet. We seem to be little more than a team of talented individuals, lacking in patterns of play, lacking in supporting one another, lacking in any organised press and with no recognisable coached style of play.

    This has got to come down to the failure of coaching. Not only Mourinho but the failure of all coaching and the players too. Something is going radically wrong but in the end the responsibility does fall on Mourinho. He needs to adapt his game,to become more dynamic, more fluent and less risk averse, more pro-active, more creative as his old conservativism and counter no longer works agsinst the defensive rigidity and highpress of premier league teams. On the other hand José's not showing much signs of adaptability and so his United career may flounder under the self inflicted lethal wound of his own rigid stubborness.
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
  20. Feb 19, 2018
    #20

    mike bird Banned

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    I have always maintained that Pogba is overrated. He thinks he is Messi or something, but he is not. He is talented yes, but he needs to mature and play for the team and not for his bank balance. Utd should consider selling him while he has some value and can bring some profit.
  21. Feb 19, 2018
    #21

    afrocentricity Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid

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    Oh snap I've been away. So Pogba is the latest player cafe muppets want sold then?
  22. Feb 19, 2018
    #22

    KirkDuyt Full Member

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    I don’t think the motm performance in the EL final is anything to go by. If anything it reminds me of Memphis against Brugge. United played Ajax in the EL final and, with all due respect to Ajax(of which I have little), they’re not serious opposition for United.

    Pogba is talented, ofcourse, but it’s not like United are playing Laurel and Hardy as centre halfs, he should do better, period.
  23. Feb 19, 2018
    #23

    glazed Full Member

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    Stopped reading at "faux par".
  24. Feb 19, 2018
    #24

    Marcky411 Full Member

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    Fully agree, now it is the formation, next it is his teammates/defence (actually one of the best defences in the league) and not dew to Pogba staying back or getting back to defend, playing in a 2 man midfield. As the piece states he came here with the same media hype as a Hollywood star, more media attention etc, was given to him than any other transfer, not even Neymar had such a marketing show as Pogba did, he was close to being a brand name like Ronaldo's CR7.
    The only difference is that Pogba is a player with incredible potential, yes potential, he isn't the finished product yet and should be putting in the work to make him one of the best in the world. I think the problem is he thinks he is already at that level and that is why his career has stagnated at Utd. Sometimes you get the feeling (not saying it is so) that if he paid as much attention and time to the football side as what he does with his media presence, hairdressers, dabbing and handshakes we might just see a completely different player on the field.
  25. Feb 19, 2018
    #25

    Sassy Colin Death or the gladioli!

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    Nice WUM mate, now get back in your box :lol:
  26. Feb 19, 2018
    #26

    Turkleton Full Member

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    Am I the only one who thinks Pogba has been our best outfield player this season (despite being played out of position)? The argument was about getting the most out of his ability but a couple of recent weak performances and now people are slaughtering him. Seems a bit mad to me.
  27. Feb 19, 2018
    #27

    KirkDuyt Full Member

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    Doing a poor job hairstyle wise tbh.
  28. Feb 19, 2018
    #28

    Sassy Colin Death or the gladioli!

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    No mate, it's not just you, he is clearly a class above anyone else we have.
  29. Feb 19, 2018
    #29

    Varun Moderator Staff

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    Countless threads, countless opinions and endless debates when it all boils down to 2 simple things:

    Pogba needs to do more, regardless of the formation.

    We need to use him better if we want to get the best out of him. We didn't pay top whack for the Pogba who sits deep in a middle 2. He's too good a player to struggle even then so he'll do a job but again, it'll suck to have bought Pogba only to get him to do a job.
  30. Feb 19, 2018
    #30

    Jaybomb Banned

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    I don’t think Mourinho trusts the defenders. Particularly Smalling, Jones and Young.

    That’s why everyone is playing deeper. To cover in case they make a mistake.

    At Chelsea, he had Gallas/Terry/Carvalho/Cole and then Ivanovic/Cahill/Terry/Azpilicueta.... our back line pales in comparison. We need to sign more top quality trustworthy defenders so Pogba and Sanchez’s defensive duties can be freed up.

    Varane or Alderweireld to partner Bailly. And Alex Sandro at left back. I’m still not convinced Valencia has another season in him so maybe we should be looking at somebody like Fabinho or Bellerin for the RB spot. Both strike me as United players.
  31. Feb 19, 2018
    #31

    Sassy Colin Death or the gladioli!

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    One of these is not like the others.
  32. Feb 19, 2018
    #32

    deafepl Full Member

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    That's it. This is why De Gea make second-most saves in the league. If we sorted out our defence, to match City/Spurs/Chelsea defence, we'd concede at least 10 goals, thank god we have a De Gea in goal otherwive we'd concede 30 goals+ with any decent goalkeeper like Lloris, Ederson, etc. We don't have any midfielder to play alongside with Matic and Pogba rest of the season this season, if we can add ball playing defender and new midfielders like Kross to balance midfield so it can stop us from getting outnumbered and outplayed in midfield against decent team and good teams so De Gea will face fewer shots which mean we are less likely to concede a goal, because of De Gea's amazing shot-stopper. However, our attack needs to be addressed and more fluid in attack instead of looking so clueless and improve counter-attacking then we will be a lot stronger next season with a high chance of winning any major trophies like EPL or UCL.
  33. Feb 19, 2018
    #33

    Cee90 Redcafe Fantasy Football Champion 2012/13

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    It was Rafael and Park wasn't it?

    I think Scholes even got it wrong the other night too tbh.
  34. Feb 19, 2018
    #34

    Bobski Full Member

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    Pogba embracing playing CM is like the Holy Grail for his manager, instantly solves a problem and gives much more flexibility in selection and system.
  35. Feb 19, 2018
    #35

    mike bird Banned

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    This is my opinion, and you should respect it. I dont have a box, and the doctors told me to take my pills every morning at 9am. If I miss a dosage, then repeat next day at the same time. Why are you tripping on me?
  36. Feb 19, 2018
    #36

    caid Full Member

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    Even if you play him on the left of a 4-3-3 he still needs to work harder than he has been in recent weeks.
    Hell his attitude and workrate isn't even good for a #10

    As to our defence
    Smalling and Jones (Smalling in particular) aren't good enough on the ball for matic to start attacks single handed. So i think the author has a point.
    I think thats also a pretty big issue in recent weeks.
  37. Feb 19, 2018
    #37

    abdo99 Full Member City Lover

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    This. The question is why has Mourinho not solved this problem in the summer? Who's fault is it if he doesn't trust Smalling, Jones and Young? He has seen them on close hand for almost 2 seasons now and doesn't look like he'll get rid even this summer. He should've brought a proper CB like Bonucci instead of spending 30million on an unproven Lindelof. Varane and Alderweireld are top quality as well. If you remember at the start of the season he was playing Blind before realising he too cannot be trusted and then turned to Ashley Young to solve our LB issues. It's an absolute joke that these areas haven't been addressed. A top coach would've binned Smalling and Jones after 1 season.
  38. Feb 19, 2018
    #38

    acnumber9 Full Member

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    Because he’s not playing Football Manager. You can’t have that level of upheaval and expect a smooth transition. He seems to be doing it in stages for more stability. It’s all well and good saying he should sign Bonucci but the player gets a say in the matter too.
  39. Feb 19, 2018
    #39

    whatwha Sniffs Erricksson’s diarrhea

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    How come DDG only made something like 14th most saves in the league last season then?
  40. Feb 19, 2018
    #40

    Hugh Jass Full Member

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    I agree.