Is it time to settle to a 352?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Home&Away, Oct 21, 2017.

  1. Oct 21, 2017
    #1

    Home&Away Banned

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    The 352 is the formation that suits our squad the most; it suits nearly every player to play in this formation and we as a club look stronger. Its terribly frustrating to see us fiddling with it, reverting back to the José tactics that nearly everybody knows & in a game like today's - we change in to playing 352 & looked considerably stronger.

    Step by step analysis of why our squad is suited to a 352.

    1) defence = Bailey/Jones - Lindelof/Blind - Rojo/Smalling

    Having a combination of any 3 of those defenders as long as we play a ball playing defender is hands down one of the best defences in the world; individually they are class - there is absolutely no reason to stick to only 2 when we can pick 3 and completly nullify attacks

    2) Wingbacks - Valencia & Young are currently being picked; there is no reason to let them play so deep; let them play in midfield and drop down in to defence only when needed - this will give us the crosses that Lukaku relies on.

    3) Midfield- with 3 CB's behind and wingbacks besides the midfield; our midfield of matic, herrera, alongside fellaini ppgba can play so much more further forward. Today's game emphasised how deep matic was playing because we have no security in defence. This allows one of mkhitarayan or Mata to play directly in behind the strikers.

    Forwards - Martial, Rashford & Lukaku; these players should be forming partnerships & none of it is happening because 2 out of the 3 is playing the gpdamn crosses that the wingbacks should be doing - it's diabolical management. I'm not even one to get jealous but you have Jesus aguer0, sane, sterling all playing around in partnership whilst ours are simply chess pieces stuck in one position. Just the simple fact that Lukaku can knock the gpdamn ball down to one of rashford or martial should tingle some of Josés neurones surely? Again we saw it today; Lukaku actually managed to cross a ball in to rashford who scored because he was placed down as a striker.


    It suits every single position down to a tee except LWB which we have a problem no matter which position we play but would be less of a problem if we played 3 CB anyway.

    This Martial and Mata wingers with Rashford on the bench sh*t is just a complete waste of time. 352 we will have 95% of our best players playing in their best positions & Josés inability to adapt to tactics already at United is starting to show.

    There is a reason we went 352 today & looked more attacking & it wasn't down the players. This is the formation that will be at the club for the next 5-7 years so if José can't adapt to it he can waddle off. He knows it's there, he knows who godamn implemented it & the other thing is that none of TFM or Tuenzebe or Angel Gomes will get a single way In to this team without extending the defenders to a 352 so the rest can play forward.
  2. Oct 21, 2017
    #2

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.

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    We might need to. We are getting short of CB's and midfield is getting overrun and no creativity there at present. Might just have to through every player we have on the pitch.
  3. Oct 21, 2017
    #3

    MILLHILLMANC Banned

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    Nope 442 with players playing in the right positions. Lukaku needs support. However anything but the awful 451 Jose is wedded to.
  4. Oct 21, 2017
    #4

    Home&Away Banned

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    I don't get it why when we have Bailey, Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Lindelof, Blind, Tuenzebe, TFM all having the ability to play there would you only ever play 2?
  5. Oct 21, 2017
    #5

    Jaae Full Member

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    Wouldn't mind this team come the end of January.

    De Gea;
    Bailly, Smalling, Rojo;
    Valencia, Matic, Pogba, Perisic;
    Ozil;
    Ibrahimovic, Lukaku
  6. Oct 21, 2017
    #6

    whatwha Where's my diarrhea damnit

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    I'm getting really sick of the 4-2-3-1.
  7. Oct 21, 2017
    #7

    Nick. Full Member

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    3-5-2 is probably less attacking than 4-2-3-1 imo. If we couldn't break Huddersfield down with the standard Jose system then I'm not sure a 3/5 at the back system would fix our problems.
  8. Oct 21, 2017
    #8

    MILLHILLMANC Banned

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    Because it's never worked and playing three at back at home to most of the premier league would be embarrassing when most only play one up front against us there.

    Ferguson would go two on two at the back and allow the full backs to bomb on as well. We need to get back to this attacking mindset. Won't happen under Jose.
  9. Oct 21, 2017
    #9

    Eddy_JukeZ Full Member

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    We switched to a back 3 at the start of the 2nd half and we still looked awful. Then Jose went back to a 4 back.

    We don't have the capable wing backs to do this system.
  10. Oct 21, 2017
    #10

    roonster09 Full Member

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    If we are playing with 3 CBs then playing with 3 CMs is very defensive and IIRC we looked shit playing that. Better to play 2 CMs and 1 attacking midfielder Mata or Mkhitaryan.

    This wouldn't be bad idea but our CBs should be confident in the build up like Spurs CBs or Luiz, not sure our CBs are that good on the ball except Blind.
  11. Oct 21, 2017
    #11

    Home&Away Banned

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    We wouldn't we would be playing 2 cm, no cdm and one AM
  12. Oct 21, 2017
    #12

    Home&Away Banned

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    Because we had herrera playing at back 3
  13. Oct 21, 2017
    #13

    prtk0811 Banned

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    There is no fix system we have to play ,

    But after conceeding 2 goals yes we needed more support for lukaku up front and we needed a 3412 with two up front.

    Blind would have done better than lindelof today, lindelof needed confidence from some home support before been thrown away in a physical match.

    Lindelof will need fellani treatment by mourinho to bring him to his A game.
  14. Oct 21, 2017
    #14

    Home&Away Banned

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    It's not embarrassing because when you play a back 3 you have to play a defender who can bring the ball forward and shield/join the midfield which is perfect for blind or Lindelof
  15. Oct 21, 2017
    #15

    Eddy_JukeZ Full Member

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    Still doesn't matter though.

    Valencia and Young are not creative enough going forward to justify this system IMO.
  16. Oct 21, 2017
    #16

    Home&Away Banned

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    They are not creative enough because they play so deep as part of our defensive line - if they have the defenders behind them they would hardly need to dribble but just receive the ball and cross them in. I'd say they were worse fullbacks than wingbacks any day of the week.
  17. Oct 21, 2017
    #17

    Eddy_JukeZ Full Member

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    They got plenty forward of times in the 2nd half and offered nothing.

    We need better full-backs.
  18. Oct 21, 2017
    #18

    JG3001 Full Member

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    I would like to see us at least try a 442/424, feels like it's been chucked in the attic never to be seen again since Fergie left.

    It's a simple formation that should suit a lot of our players and a lot more suited to counter attacking football.
  19. Oct 21, 2017
    #19

    kps88 Full Member

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    Yep. Valencia looks out of gas already and asking him to play wing back would involve more running. Young tries hard but ultimately isn't good enough.

    Plus if either got injured/needed a rest, there's no one else who can play wing back.
  20. Oct 21, 2017
    #20

    Crashoutcassius Full Member

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    different games different tactics as ever
  21. Oct 21, 2017
    #21

    Home&Away Banned

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    He would actually do less running because he would be starting in a neutral position having to go up and down depending on how we intend or have to play.

    Right now what is happening is that not a single footballer can cross the ball properly to Lukaku so both young and Valencia make the run all the way back from the Defensive line all the way forward. Having 3 defenders of the nature of the defenders we have in Stockport would make the need for them to do defensive work lesser; that's why they play more further forward already in a more attacking position.
  22. Oct 21, 2017
    #22

    Foxbatt Full Member

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    It is is not the system but the players too. I think Jose has been put in a straight jacket and is trying to play in a system that the players are not capable of playing against teams that hustle against us.
    Players like Mata are useless when we get turned over. Furthermore, I am sure a lot of you would have noticed that unlike in the days of SAF when senior players call for the ball they always get it. The first goal is a very good example of this. Mata had no business coming so deep and getting the ball in that position and then to make matters worse mis-controlled the pass under no real pressure and that led to him losing possession. He has no pace and strength to get the ball back when he loses possession. All our players apart from the two CBs were forward of him.
    I think Jose should go with a diamond with Lukaku and either Rashford or Martial up front with him, with Blind on the left side of midfield in the absence of Pogba, and Herrera on the right side with Matic holding and Mikhi or Mata on top of the diamond. Valencia and the Young(right now) as the two full backs. Young is normally a good crosser of the ball and if either Lukaku or Matic had been at the far post for his cross before they scored we would have been 1-0 up.
  23. Oct 21, 2017
    #23

    Scarecrow Requested ban until 08/02/2018

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    The formation and tactics should depend on the opponent.
  24. Oct 21, 2017
    #24

    MILLHILLMANC Banned

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    Nah we can agree to disagree. 442 for me
  25. Oct 21, 2017
    #25

    Walters_19_MuFc Full Member

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    The 4231 is fine. I just personally think we need to use the width more and create more attacking overloads in wide areas. At the moment, we're trying to overcomplicate things a bit, in my opinion, when a simple, 'pass it wide and whip it in' would do.

    That said, my preference is a 433, but I dont think Jose's style of play suits it.
  26. Oct 21, 2017
    #26

    TsuWave Full Member

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    nah
  27. Oct 21, 2017
    #27

    Hed Zitin Full Member

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    Yeah play another cb so we can play even more negative....

    Last thing this team needs is another attacking player dropped.
  28. Oct 21, 2017
    #28

    SS Full Member

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    A 442 isn't all that different from just playing a striker as the #10 in a 4231. Whoever plays alongside Lukaku in a 442 would essentially be an SS and play behind and off him anyway.
  29. Oct 21, 2017
    #29

    BusbyMalone Full Member

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    Really don't like the 4231 on paper. There's really no need for two CDM's in a lot of these games, and it just seems so rigid sometimes.
  30. Oct 21, 2017
    #30

    breakout67 Full Member

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    The first loss and now we need to change formation :houllier:. 4-2-3-1 was working until we had our holding midfielder and his back-up injured.

    If Pogba or Fellaini were holding in that game we would never have lost that game. Our first goal was from horrible organisation in midfield with Mata being a holding midfielder pivoting in between the center backs.
  31. Oct 21, 2017
    #31

    stevoc Full Member

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    Welcome to United JoMo!
    Yeah lets switch to a formation with 5 defenders and no doubt Jose would probably still play 2 defensive midfielders, also a system that would ensure Lindelof plays almost every game for the next few months. I'm sure that will make us unstoppable.

    No thanks.
  32. Oct 22, 2017
    #32

    Home&Away Banned

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    5 defenders or up to 5 attackers - depending on the position of the wing back; kinda suits the counter attack thing we try to play. Blind is better than Lindelof and hugely underrated; we will have Rojo soon alongside Bailey, Jones, Smalling - to not play and fixate a strong defense with the ability to initiate an attack would be a bit under utilising what we have.

    De gea
    Bailey - Blind/Jones/Lindelof - Rojo
    Valencia - - young
    Matic/Herrera - Ppgba/Fellaini
    Mata/Mkhi
    Lukaku - Rashford/Martial

    Not a single player is being misutilised in my opinion. Players who are there to cross and to fall back in to defence only when necessary; players to be an extra man in defence whilst also initiating the counter attacks, a target man & a striker to play off or around them & their touches.

    Let's see - some fans here saying they want 442 and some other formations that we havent tried under José; but the 352 we already have.
  33. Oct 22, 2017
    #33

    MeUnited Banned

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    Or we could teach the players the concept of moving the ball quickly, make runs between the lines, actually play in small triangles. Basic stuff that they haven't seemed to grasp for the past 6 years.
  34. Oct 22, 2017
    #34

    VancouverUtdFan Full Member

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    No


    ^and this
  35. Oct 22, 2017
    #35

    automaticflare Full Member

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    This is not a good observation. we don't play 2 DM when it's pogba and matic or even fellaini and matic
    The problem is Herrera and matic are very similar

    Also we switched to 352 after half time today and we absolute shite in reference to the OP
  36. Oct 22, 2017
    #36

    Womp idiot

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    We usually don't play with two CDM's. Pogba and Matic was our go to. The only problem is Herrera and Matic are literally the only midfielders we have left available. Fellaini injured, Blind hasn't played there in years and is defensive himself and Mctomminay is a kid with no experience in a period where we are struggling at the moment and need results.
  37. Oct 22, 2017
    #37

    stevoc Full Member

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    Welcome to United JoMo!
    It rarely ever works out that way for us every time we've tried this formation though. Especially if it's 352 with 3 centre backs and two wingbacks, whichever way you spin it thats 5 defenders.

    In most of our games especially at home 352 is pointless. Games like today Young and Valencia basically played sort of like wingbacks anyway, 352 would just lead to another centre back hanging around in our half picking his nose and one less attacker in the opposition half.

    As i said no thanks, personally i don't think we have players who would be good enough as wingbacks to make it work either. Relying on Valencia as your main creative force on one side of the pitch is asking for trouble. Plus Jose doesn't like the formation, he's even said himself he will only use it for certain games against other teams who play 352.
  38. Oct 22, 2017
    #38

    Zlatattack Full Member

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    352 only works if you can impose yourself on the game. Against the best sides they'll exploit the space behind your wing backs. You are then forced to play with 5 at the back, focusing your attack through the middle and losing attacking width.

    All the best sides play with 433 or 2431 because it covers more of the pitch and offers flexibility and easier transition to other formations.

    What we need are proper players and less stopgaps.

    - We need proper competition for Valencia, not Ashley Young.
    - We need a real left back like Evra.
    - We need 2 proper wide attackers to push Rashford and Martial (look how the competition has improved them both) not converted 10's or underwhelming Lingard.
    - We need a replacement for Carrick not the memory of Carrick floating around the dressing room.

    We have to admit we recruited poorly. Depay, Darmain, Rojo (as a lb), Fellaini (until the last 6 months), Schwinsteiger, Falcao, Di Maria were all failed signings. I've not included Shaw because he was good until his leg broke but now is not good enough. It's fine margins with all of them tbh but one the whole it's not worked out. We need to slowly fix those mistakes one by one.

    Aim for a title challenge and a cup. The league would require luck for us to win it and we are all out at the moment.
  39. Oct 22, 2017
    #39

    BusbyMalone Full Member

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    The observation is sound. We don't ALWAYS play with a 4231, but Jose does prefer that formation. For a lot of the games we play, this is not needed. Also, when Pogba plays in this formation, he is restricted. This has been alleviated somewhat because Matic he is so good, but my dislike for the formation remains.
    He may well have changed to a 352 in this game, but he started with a 4231, that's my main issue.
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
  40. Oct 22, 2017
    #40

    BusbyMalone Full Member

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    Jose does like the two CDM's though; that's just his style. Pogba is restricted in this formation. He hasn't been so much this year because Matic is so good; but i still dislike the formation.

    I do agree with the point about the injures though; our options are limited.
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017