Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Jib, Jan 11, 2019.
Not at the time. His legacy is under rated though. Not sure why.
Can say same for Giggs too.
He had weird bendy legs and ran a bit like a duck.
I strangely loved playing him on PES5. That Arsenal team was so good
Fantastic player, his combination play is some of the best I've ever seen, probably the best.
His hat-trick goal against Southampton was a bit special.
Great player, and a world class one at his peak; was a star man for Metz and nearly took them to what would've been a shocking league title. IIRC took a bit of time to settle in Prem, but eventually was brilliant for Arse. His later stint at Villarreal was a bit underappreciated, me think. Overall, was a bit overshadowed by the abundance of world class players and bigger personalities in both club and NT. His somewhat dandy look, missing out on WC 2002 when he's at his prime, and injury problems didn't help.
An interesting question: Pires or Overmars?
His legacy is underrated as he only won 2 Premier leagues and no Euro trophies despite 6 seasons in England. He never showed enough in the big games.
He's up there with the great creative French wingers like Ribery, Ginola but not sure you can say he was better than those two. He'd walk into the first XI of all top 6 teams today except for Liverpools
Domenech never really fancied him after 2002 either because of his weird astrology superstitions.
Overmars could’ve been equally lethal on the right if he’d stayed in my opinion. That team could’ve been even more frightening if they’d kept him, Anelka and Petit in the squad.
Pires was a great player no doubt. Wonderful and easy on the eye. But maybe because I'm bias, I can't recall many 'wonder' moments in big games & definitely not in CL games?
Pires peak 2002-2005 years actually came when Giggs was going through his only real rough patch at Utd. Pires was better at times during that period. People also thought Wenger was better than Fergie at the time too. Fans were on Giggs' back and reading his book it was the period when he knew because of hamstring problems, he could never sprint properly again, so went about changing his game, eventually becoming the player we saw for the last part of his career. So when Pires was struggling to get into the Aston Villa side, Giggs was still producing key moments in title winning sides. Fergie was also moving away from his trusted 442 in order to win another CL. So a Giggs without his early pace, had to adapt. While Pires was fitting in perfectly, in a slick Arsenal side alongside Henry and Ashley Cole.
To say "Pirès between 2001 and 2005 was at a much higher level than Giggs ever was" just seems crazy to me when thinking about early Giggs inparticular. Show me moments Pires produced that were at a much higher level than Giggs goal at Villa Park or when he ripped into Juventus home and away?
And you think it wouldn’t be huge for Giggs? I can’t think of many players that could compensate for their decline in pace the way Giggs could. That was down to his touch and technique. You talk as if Giggs didn’t have all those things.
Exactly. His touch and close control was very good, he wasn't just all pace. The way he twisted the fullbacks was joy to watch and it happened so regularly.
Was regularly invisible whenever he played against Utd so that probably clouds my opinion on him a bit.
He had them but Pirès was the more technically gifted player. Particularly during the spell when they played in the same position, there wasn’t much of a comparison in terms of technique and intelligence. Giggs did develop it later on as you mention, though.
Very, very good player and a twat. I used to hate him and Henry, in the years since my dislike for Henry has waned and i can admit just how good he was but i still dislike Pires for some reason.
For me he epitomized Wengers Arsenal from that period, very talented played entertaining football but largely soft as shite, bottlers and moaning bastards who thought the other team should be privileged just to be on the same pitch as them.
Mate quit while you're behind.
Giggs was always technically very good player. Not even sure where you are going with this, just with each post you are digging bigger hole.
Hardly underrated. He's part of one of France's best generations of talent ever.
Quality player. Ran like a fecking weirdo.
at Giggs' lack of technique. Guy had the ball under complete control whilst running 100mph at multiple defenders.
That too on crap pitches.
Don't think that Pires was anywhere near Giggs assists numbers (99-04).
edit: @Mrs Smoker already shared that, sorry.
Giggs always had it. You can’t rack up the goals and assists he had without it. Any version of Giggs you care to discuss could do all those things.
Pires was an excellent player and probably had a few years where he out performed Giggs but there's no comparison overall.
No comparison in terms of technique? Isn't the same Ryan Giggs who drew George Best comparisons. Granted Giggs never reached that level or reached Balon d'Or esque levels but he was a technically brilliant footballer.
That goal vs QPR
Commentator then comparing him with Best.
The obvious difference between them, even if you don't agree with forwards/wingers terminology, was that Pires was right footed and tended to cut inside and Giggs was the epitome of an orthodox left-footed winger (hence his assist stats).
As I get older I think Cantona and Keane are my favourite Utd players, but then you watch that small video and think jesus wept, no, its Giggs isn't it. what a fecking player he was.
I can't believe anyone could ever have watched Giggs and thought he was lacking technically. One of the most elegant and stylish players I've ever seen at the club.
I think so.
He used to terrify me when he was at his peak, always seemed to be running in to tap in after an Henry shot was parried. Between 2001-2005 he was probably better than Giggs but not by much at all. Giggs had different phases of his career where he was better than that spell though.
It's almost completely pointless to compare Giggs and Pires in terms of goal output when the objective and goal brief of their role in their respective teams was so different.
Arsenal were world famous for their left side with Cole, bombing on ceaselessly and providing width on the overlap, with Henry constantly drifting out to wide left positions as well.
Pires was right in the middle of those two and his job was to go and exploit the vacated areas Henry would leave and drive towards goal on the diagonal either for a Henry cut-back and link up, or to get on the end of chances provided by the aforementioned himself. Pires rarely went on the outside of his man/men to drop crosses in for others.
Contrast that with Giggs, whose job was to create as much width as possible and drive at isolated full-back and drag them away from the central areas or prevent them from tucking in. Giggs would put in actual crosses - not cut-backs - via his 1on1(or 2 or 3) work and you would rarely see him running towards the box on a diagonal like Pires' bread and butter was.
Giggs also worked to get into the box when the ball was on the opposite flank, not his own, and he scored some sterling headers in this manner. Arsenal barely did any work down the right, hardly put crosses in because Henry was neither good in the air or interested in contesting for those kind of balls, so you were not going to see Pires mirroring Giggs in this area, either.
They're so chalk and cheese they are only able to be compared because of them both starting out on the left side of the pitch, after that, any commonality ends.
And also, Giggs is famed for his constant battles with the very best full-backs of the era his duels with Zanetti are legendary. Pires has no such legacy, firstly because his job wasn't to contest with full-backs, but secondly because he was supposed to work his way into space, which is a trait that requires you to be elusive and not a go to man to progress your team forward.
In Europe, Giggs was our out-ball - the guy we would pass it to to get the entire team far up the pitch following in on his ridiculous dribbles that barely any European side could cope with. Pires has no such repute or brief for Arsenal, but nor did he need to as width, dribbling and pace were covered by Cole and Henry much more than him.
Pires was a great player in that Arsenal side, far better than Giggs would have been, but equally, Pires would have been far less effective for Manchester United because he wouldn't have a prayer of pulling off Giggs' role.
It's easy to see why Arsenal's legacy as a team is being eroded also. Henry is gobbling up the plaudits for the whole team in modern times and only his legend is standing by now. Even Vieira is being forgotten about as time passes, so it's fair to say that in modern times, the whole of that side, apart from Henry, is starting to become quite underrated. Of the era, however, Pires was a highly rated player, and rightly so.
The idea that Giggs was anything short of exceptional technically Given how his reputation is going, in a few years he will be considered on par with Steve Guppy.
Pires was fantastic, as I said in one of the rated threads along with Giggs and Hazard he is one of the 3 best lefr wing players in the PL history.
Judging players by stats makes me cry though, roles have changed, Pires was one of the first wide players of that time to really focus on scoring, Henry often dropping to the left and Cole bombing on allowed Pires more scope to get into the box and he had a great instinct for where to be, very smart player.
Figo was a 1 in 5 wide player and still a world player of the year candidate, football is not basketball, we don't have to reduce everything to stats.
When I was younger I'd confuse him with pirlo :/
One of my favourite players. Scored/contributed to some absolutely crucial goals for us.
The skill to absolutely rinse Gerrard and play that to Ljungberg. Winning 2-1 at Anfield with 10 men was massive for us in the 01/02 season.
Just an absolutely filthy goal.
His skill that lead to Trezeguet's golden goal in the Euro 2000 final is sorely overlooked. Beat two Italian defenders on the outside and then skinned Nesta in similar fashion to Gerrard at Anfield.
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