Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by roonster09, Jun 20, 2018.
Bonucci did not go under the ultra sector, he celebrated his goal in the same way he always does
Allegri said that keeping talking over and over without doing nothing is useless, there are hd cameras and they should pick the morons and ban thet for life without all this empty fake indignation. How would he be a prick, maybe you are one
He also said that Kean shouldn’t have celebrated the way he did.
Why not? And why put on sort of blame or fault on the player. It’s a piss poor attitude. Kean should’ve been backed 100%. No need to mention his celebration.
And he is right, it's not the way to respond to idiots .A player in a stadium cannot behave like a kid in a playfield doing tit for tat with the public, especially in situations that can easily escalate, it's not a question of blaming him for the insults obviously.
That's clear for anybody with a functioning brain cell. There are ways to react to morons like having the referee stop the game and punishing the fans, going under the ultra sector to make a scene is silly.
what a joke. Shameful comments.
Well done to Kean and Blaise.
Even Juve and Milan fans have joined forces to mock him for his celebrations when he scored for Milan Vs Juve where he was “provoking fans”.
What did he say?
Bonucci's post game interview(the english translation is pretty accurate) is a microcosm of the country's racism problem. Deep down, racism to many italians is little different from any other form of insult. Calling someone the n-word is little different than calling him a cnut. The problem isn't the xenophobic extremes, who are loud(and louder still now that their idiot-in-chief is basically the head of our government) but still a minority. It's the vast majority of italians who just don't see what the deal is with racism. People who just...don't care
Who gives a feck where he celebrates? He had been abused since the first half. But we should talk about how he celebrated? What the feck are you on about. Bunucci is a twat for those comments.
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Maybe so but that in no way puts any part of the blame on him for being racially fecking abused
If they called him a cnut in reaction to his "provocation", sure, blame is 50-50. But they racially fecking abused him. That is an entirely different matter
You're right. Bonucci probably thinks monkey chants are just another insult. I was reading a Reddit thread last night and some were saying he should ignore the racism, sign a new contract and just carry on enjoying his game.
I can't blame white people not understanding what the big deal is if a black player is racially abused. It's something they have never experienced (to that level) and probably can't really understand how much it can hurt.
Allegri separated the issues actually. Kean should not provoke. The racial abuse is in no way excusable or justifiable. He's not putting any part of the blame on Kean, he's just pointing out that provoking opposing fans is stupid
Utter cretins. Racism is well and truly tolerated in Italy.
First of all, Kean's celebration should not even be part of the discussion.
Second, the chants had started as far back as the first half when he was booked for diving. He did not provoke anyone.
Yeah, neapolitans(and southerners in general) definitely experienced something similar throughout the last century in northern italy. Neapolitans still do to an extent.
Salvini's rhetoric is nothing new: his party peddled the same line since its inception. He just changed the target as the times moved on...
The fact its socially accepted in Italy says it all about the country's race issue.
You just need to walk around Rome to get the feel of the huge class divide between the white and the black.
Because he also said this:
'it doesn't make sense to talk about these things. It takes intelligence to deal with these situations and you shouldn't provoke people, although of course, I don't justify what was there'.
Empty fake indignation. Ffs. It may be fake and empty to you but it isn't fake and empty to some of the rest of us. This racism is fecking tiring. its also particularly tiring to be told by people who don't go through racism in the same way how to respond to this racism, whether it's Bonucci, Allegri or you for that matter.
There is no right or wrong way to respond to racism. Showing restraint is the right way, are you for real? Have you ever been subject to racism, let alone to racism by dozens if not hundreds of fans to say what the right response is?
How am I a prick?
Who the feck cares if he provokes? Abuse him but don’t aim racist abuse at him. What kind of idiots go into a football match thinking that is ok.
Yeah, Allegri never said Kean provoked anyone. He said his celebration was immature and exacerbated the situation. To be perfectly clear, he's not putting any sort of blame on Kean for what happened, he pointed out Kean could and should have behaved differently. I understand Kean's behaviour and i also understand Allegri's point. Personally i tend to agree with you on this though
Allegri's making more of a general point
It's a beautiful country and one of my favourites but I've experienced a lot more.... Staring and some little things here and there than I did in any other country in what I'd consider West or maybe Southern Europe.
Kean's celebration is one of the least provoking celebrations I've seen in recent times.
The way people are talking its like Kean summoned the footballing spirits of Adebayor and G.Neville.
He never did he provoked anyone, try to start listening after you are done with your indignation fit . Allegri said perfectly sensible things and if the league and the police authorities started acting on it in the way he suggesteds the problem in the stadia would be solved very quickly, without all the moronic talks by phonies who live to act as morally superior.
I don't think I ever dsai that, of course he cannot be blamed for the advis of the morons
The bit I've put above is a direct quote. I don't speak Italian so it may well have been mis translated but the articles I was reading said that Allegri said the above.
I am not commenting on the other things he said because those other things are very reasonable.
Again, please carry on telling black people how we should respond to racism. Really great of you to do so with your vast experience of it.
Who exactly are the phonies who live to act morally superior?
I've just seen the celebration again.... Wow. That was the horrible 'provoking' incident that incited these fans? And these fans knew this was coming in advance and had been racially abusing him in advance of this celebration as well?
And after this profound and well thought analysis we can close the debate. FFS if you want to have an idea of racial divide just have walk around London or read the posts of many morons who voted for brexit just saying
It was provoking because it was done under their ultra, I am a juve fan and huge moise fab since he was in the under 17 team and this is not the first time he exercises bad judgement. The fact that he was provoked doesn't mean he was right to do that.
That has nothing to do with the fact that the racists and morons on the stand should be punished and banned from attending games ever again.
If you are a professional player you have many advantages bit also responsibilities and please keep the "don't tell the black how to react" bs for yourself. I am totally colour blind, some of my best friends are Africans and I have no problem whatsoever to tell a black he is being a moron because of some ill thought conception of politically correctness.
Tbf Allegri's making more of a general point rather than talking specifically about this incident. Still, this is one specific situation were he isn't really qualified to give Kean advice, even though he's his boss and what he says sounds sensible to me(white man who's never been racially/ethnically abused. Excluding a few very minor incidents of mistaken identity)
1) I never called you a racist or even suggested it once so find it interesting that you felt the need to justify that you aren't one.
2) I also never said that you can't tell a black person he or she is a moron. I never said anything like that and again, find it interesting that without any insight into my thought process, you have called it ill thought out. Black people can of course be morons, as ca people of any race. They should completely be told if they are being morons. I am talking very specifically about non black people telling black people how they should respond to racism, often a phenomenon they have never had to experience themselves. Look at Southgate's far better response, where he seemed genuinely pained and appreciated that as a middle aged white man, he could not understand how Rose or Sterling felt.
As for this last part, I thank you because you've at least saved me from having to engage with you on this conversation any further. Anyone who tells me they are 'colour blind' and has black/Asian /whatever friends is not usually worth engaging with.
*To clarify before you get too upset, I'm not calling you a racist.
Who cares? You always post something like this when the issue of racism comes up, it’s the equivalent of us saying well scousers have been prejudiced by those in the south for centuries, why even bring it up, how is it comparable or even relatable to racism of players with African descent?
The general point is stupid.
Are you actually for real? As in have you actually been saying the words you've been saying in this thread?
Handled well mate, fair play not absolutely ripping into him.
I still don't get how some people can pretend to judge an issue of an entire country where he clearly never lived (especially a country as diversified between regions,towns,traditions,etc. as Italy)…
I lived in Naples a few years ago. I wouldn't say racism is socially accepted (covert perhaps), but sadly that idea has spilled over in football.
Education is so important. I knew a teacher there who was African-born and his students adored him. They didn't have any issue with his skin colour or background. Some parents were skeptical but they couldn't challenge him because a) he was working in a well respected profession, b) he was highly educated and c) the students were learning something. The school happily stood by him which gives me hope clubs can change their ways.
He didn't run the width and breadth of the pitch, he stepped to the side of where he just scored.
If I was abused like that for all of the match you could believe I would have done the same or worse.
And where do people who have never been abused because of how they were born get off telling someone how they should react.
Get a grip.
Comments like that always show up true racists trying to pretend.
No one is colour blind not even the physically blind as they can tell skin colour via voice.
All people see colour, it is just that some races regardless of nationality try to shape society based on it.
Funny post though, keep showing your hand mate.
I don't think you understand how deep of an issue that was. Not the same as racism, no, but comparable? To what non white people are currently going through in Italy? Definitely. Not as bad, l think, but we're still talking about a form of discrimination that affected people heavily in every aspect of their life based on were they born, or were their parents were born, or their grandparents even.
And i'm not talking about football here
"We're not racist, we have no problem with the color of his skin, we just want him to play badly"
That'd be the other most common defence ultras use after racially abusing players("he provoked us" being the first one)
They believe it, too
Who cares what you would have done? You are just an anonymous moron that write on a forum, he is a public figure and has the luxury and also responsibilities of being one. And the argument that not being black I cannot judge if a reaction is correct is simply moronic like the rest of this politically correct BS, as if I could not consider that somebody who reacted with exceesive violence to an offense couldn't be judged as wrong because he was black, yellow, green or of another sex, and before the moralist brigade explains that Moise didn't do anything like that ,I am well aware, it's just to explain the point.
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