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It's not the manager, it's the players

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by haram, Apr 3, 2019.

  1. Apr 13, 2019

    Ban Full Member

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    Yet Ole is slowly getting the heat in this place.
  2. Apr 13, 2019

    Rifer Full Member

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    I'll let Ole have this upcoming summer and pre-season to "fix" the squad first.. only then dishing out more responsibilities ("blame") to him, reasonably.

    What's interesting is by now, he should clearly know more about these players he inherited. Who should stay and who should go. If today's game among few others are not more than enough for him then... idk, maybe he's not the right person at the wheel.
  3. Apr 13, 2019

    kps88 Full Member

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    That's very generous of you but I'm afraid it's going to take more than one summer to fix this squad. Especially if you're expecting a title challenge.
  4. Apr 13, 2019

    Paul_Scholes18 Full Member

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    Well I think we totally lack chemistry in terms of playing as a team. I think the manager is to blame for that, but our players should also have developed it under Mourinho too (I guess they didn't mostly).

    Tactically we are very far behind. We got few smart players really who plays really well with the head. I think Scott is one, Lindelöf another one, but the rest of our players are quite rash and stupid a lot of the time. Mata got the brain too, but not the legs anymore. Matic too.
  5. Apr 13, 2019

    sincher "I will cry if Rooney leaves"

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    OH good I LOVE these threads they are so not SHIT.
  6. Apr 13, 2019

    Amadaeus Pochettino's mother

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    These same players went on a great run during the honeymoon period. It the manager as he is not able to motivate these players to continue that performance. Of course we need some addition, but our current team is still better than some of our top six rivals. I doubt spending another £200m will improve our team if we don’t have the right manager in place to develop these players. We have been doing this the past few season and it has not been working.
  7. Apr 13, 2019

    matt23 Full Member

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    They're a hard bunch to like some of our players, aren't they?

    As a collective, we seem to crave playing in first gear, and stroll around like we're 5-0 up after 30 or so minutes of acceptable play.

    I hate accusing players of being lazy but there's no other word for it. Too many fecking posers who don't want to battle for 90 minutes, because they're at Man United and want to look cool.
  8. Apr 13, 2019

    Fanatic 00237 Full Member

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    Injuries.
    Suspensions.
    Inadequate fitness levels (unfit for the high tempo game played in those early matches during the honeymoon period)
    All of which do NOT depend on the current manager.

    I hope this thread isn’t a way to whitewash Mourinho’s tenure as he had enough time and funds to build a team with the players he wants. It’s just fair that Ole be given at least as much before we assess.
  9. Apr 13, 2019

    Leftback99 Full Member

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    Our first XI is probably better than Arsenal's that's it.

    I'm glad it's become clearer the players aren't good enough (some of us were banging this drum pre Ole). Hopefully it influences our summer business.
  10. Apr 13, 2019

    Amadaeus Pochettino's mother

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    Our team have enough talent to account for injuries, rotation or suspended players. We are not Spurs, lecesiter or Everton that don’t have enough depth. We have spend close to £1 billion pound in the last few season to ensure we have a good squad. During the honeymoon period we saw how good this team is, we just need a manager that is a good motivator(like Zidane or pochettino) and preferably also tactical intelligent.

    Our squad is better than most top six, whereas our first eleven is better than Arsenal and no worse than Spurs, Liverpool, or Chelsea. The difference is that the other clubs has managers that can get the best out of average players that makes fans think they have a good first 11. Rashford will probably be England’s golden boy if he played for Liverpool, Chelsea or Spurs, while Martial might be banging it in like Salah if he was with one of those other managers. Pogba would be touted as the best midfielder in the world as seen with his performance in the honeymoon period, and the list goes on.
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
  11. Apr 13, 2019

    R'hllor Full Member

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    Must say its a genius thread, attempt to wash up JM through Ole.
  12. Apr 13, 2019

    Fanatic 00237 Full Member

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    Precisely, I thought it was now clear to everyone that we had spent so much in these last few seasons largely on mediocre players. We absolutely don’t have the depth in quality to cover for injuries and suspensions.

    During the honeymoon period we saw great performances from our best players, the downturn in performance started when we had that rough streak of injuries. Also, during that honeymoon phase we saw that Ole can be a good motivator and I enjoyed his tactics as well. Again, fitness levels dropped as should have been expected from players who were coached for a different system under the previous manager. As I said, let’s wait for next season at least before we assess.
  13. Apr 13, 2019

    Fanatic 00237 Full Member

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    Indeed, that’s how it feels to me as well.
  14. Apr 13, 2019

    Reddy Rederson Full Member

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    Blaming ole for the state of these players. fecking cringe.
  15. Apr 13, 2019

    #07 makes new threads with tweets in the OP

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    A lot of these players lack bottle. I said it under Mourinho and I'm saying it now.

    All confidence players. While we were on a good run they were great. As soon as we had a couple of setbacks they've retreated into their shells. You got players, who I reckon are top level, who in the past few games have struggled to pass 10-20m in a straight line. That's not Ole's fault that's just cos they're choking, embarassingly, in a race for top four. Imagine how badly this group would bottle a title chase come April and May. I don't even wanna think about it...
  16. Apr 13, 2019

    breakout67 Full Member

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    An extremely obvious projection on your part. You seem to have forgotten we were approaching mid table under Moaninho, he had to go because no way we had the same quality as teams like Watford and Leicester.

    The point of this thread is obvious to any one without extreme bias. It's to point out Ole will fail if he doesn't get the players (and there is probably some point about the recruitment network). It doesn't mean managers are faultless, that is obvious to most.
  17. Apr 13, 2019

    crossy1686 Full Member

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    Ignore them, they've got absolutely no idea about football or management in general.
  18. Apr 13, 2019

    Amadaeus Pochettino's mother

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    Mctominay and Fred has started to push for first team football and a few months ago, fans were saying they were not good enough. Lukaku is supposedly our second choice striker, but when Rashford got injured, he was able to replace him and went on a great goal scoring run. A lot of players are able to step up and it is down to the manager to motivate those players. We have good depth, not at the level of Manchester city, Real Madrid or Barcelona, but it is still much better than most of our rivals. I rather have our bench then Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool, or Chelsea(maybe Chelsea has better bench).

    We are not the only team that has to combat injuries or a drop in fitness level as well. These factors has not had much of an effect on the type of football our rivals put out on the pitch.
  19. Apr 13, 2019

    Leftback99 Full Member

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    The squad might be better in depth but it's only really the first 13/14 which matter if you keep them fit. If you think our first XI is as good as Liverpool's and Spurs then it's not worth debating. These players have shown under 4 different managers they are not good enough. The 'honeymoon' period you speak of was against some of the worst sides in the league.


    Zidane lost a game last week, Pochettino lost a few recently and 10 in the league all season. Both with better teams than ours.
  20. Apr 13, 2019

    Ban Full Member

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    Will do. The mood here makes me nervous.
  21. Apr 13, 2019

    Amadaeus Pochettino's mother

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    Our first 11 is as good as Liverpool or Spurs. As I stated before, a good managers knows how to make average players appear good. Under Klopp, young could become our Milner. Liverpool has Matip in defense and no one knew who Arnold or Robertson was a couple of seasons ago. There midfield is not better than ours with Fabinho, Wilderndum and Keita not better than Fred, Pogba, Herrera. When compared to Spurs there cb are solid, but their midfield is much worse than ours. They have players who are in great form with only two elite talent in Eriksen and Kane. During the honeymoon period we saw how good our players are when in top form. I m not sure about zidane, but Pochettino performance were not as terrible as our lost.
  22. Apr 13, 2019

    AshRK Full Member

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    I am all for criticizing ole but some people are seriously overrating our players. No manager could work their magic on a consistent basis with this squad. Lack of quality is pretty obvious. People who are saying ole has no tactics, well he cannot make this bunch play scintillating football.

    Having said that ole needs to be ruthless and sell some of the junks and stop picking other deadwoods. He must be rational and accept lingard is squad player at best and cannot be treated any more than that. He cannot make emotional decisions. I still think next season we will play better football. Fans must be patient and keep their judgement reserved till atleast December.
  23. Apr 13, 2019

    SteveW Full Member

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    @Amadaeus

    Without wanting to get dragged into this debate I think you're well of the mark here. Miles off.
  24. Apr 13, 2019

    Nou_Camp99 Full Member

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    Ole needs to be ruthless and show the door to half of these twats.

    We've got a whole list of players who aren't good enough and another list of players who are but don't try hard enough and disappear too much.

    I knew the years after Fergie would be tough and we'd slip away a bit but I didn't think we'd make as many mistakes as a club as we have done.

    Ole has a really tough job here. I think it's beyond him quite frankly too but I won't blame him for the mess we are in. He's a breath of fresh air but it's the stupid cnut who employed him who needs to go.
  25. Apr 13, 2019

    AndyJ1985 Banned

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    No chance. Our attack is dog shit, whereas Liverpool have one of the most devastating attacking trio's in football. Their defence is miles better too. I don't know how anyone can look at the two teams and think they are comparable.
  26. Apr 13, 2019

    SteveW Full Member

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    Almost every attacking player we have is coming off an injury or two. The team looks very tired.

    Ole has taken from us from nowhere to contention for top 4 and we're still in Europe.

    Personally I dont think we'll get top 4 but that will be no fault of Ole's. He's done great.

    I expect us to be in much better shape by August.
  27. Apr 13, 2019

    Leftback99 Full Member

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    Klopp/Liverpool have recruited certain types of players to fit their system. Most of their first XI is different to when he first arrived. Milner was always a high energy player that could fill multiple roles in a Klopp team.

    Saying how great players were in the 'honeymoon period' against the likes of Cardiff, Huddersfield and Bournemouth is like Wolves fans thinking they could win the league because of their recent performances against us.
  28. Apr 13, 2019

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    It's not the Manager, it's not the players, it's the fans :nervous:
  29. Apr 13, 2019

    sp_107 New Member

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    Alexis Sanchez - £350,000-a-week
    Paul Pogba - £290,000-a-week
    Romelu Lukaku - £200,000-a-week
    David De Gea - £200,000-a-week
    Anthony Martial - 200,000-a-week
    Luke Shaw - £195,000-a-week
    Juan Mata - £140,000-a-week
    Fred - £120,000-a-week
    Nemanja Matic - £140,000-a-week
    Ashley Young - £110,000-a-week
    Jesse Lingard - £100,000-a-week
    Antonio Valencia - £100,000-a-week
    Marcos Rojo - £80,000-a-week

    Aren't we paying too much ?
  30. Apr 13, 2019

    crossy1686 Full Member

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    Agreed but I think most of us in here are sane enough to realise that we're on our 4th manager in 6 years and it can't be the manager's fault at this stage, there has to be a common denominator. Back Ole, give him all the power over the club to make the changes he needs to fix the mess they've caused. There is no magic Pochettino wand to fix this, he'd have the same issues and be out of a job by next summer anyway.
  31. Apr 13, 2019

    M Bison Full Member

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    It’s both, both parties are at fault, in equal measure.

    All need to shape up and raise their performances, from Ole through to Alexis.
  32. Apr 13, 2019

    Bastian Full Member

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    Yeah, my sentiments too. Maybe with the right coaching Lingard can become Salah and Jones van Dijk. Fred is an Eriksen waiting to bloom perhaps.
  33. Apr 13, 2019

    freeurmind weak willed

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    Do people honestly believe this? I keep hearing this and I keep thinking either I'm insane or maybe the people who say this aren't watching the games.
  34. Apr 13, 2019

    freeurmind weak willed

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    Exactly! And with Lingard and Jones, these are players we've been watching for years and have never consistently shown form good enough to start for a Premiership winning side.
  35. Apr 13, 2019

    Ban Full Member

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    Agreed completely. I know fans are impatient and think by changing managers will make wonders and bring us back to the top overnight but it doesn't go that way. Not even close. We'll have to have 2, 3 good transfer windows to fix the issues this team has.
  36. Apr 13, 2019

    Mcking Full Member

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    Origi and Lovren too.
  37. Apr 13, 2019

    Amadaeus Pochettino's mother

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    [
    Yea, I have had this said plenty of times to me on here before :)

    Our attack is dogshit only because we don’t have a good philosophy. I don’t think that most fans would be against us going into next season with a front three of Sancho-Rashford-Martial. However, if we have a bad philosophy and manager, most will say that front three is dogshit. No one knew Salah would be so prolific before he came to Liverpool. Martial can be as prolific with a good team and footballing philosophy around him. Their defense only get better because they signed Van Dijk, prior to that, we had a much better defense.

    Milner was no better than young, but under a good manager he became useful. Young can has he uses as well in our team. Saying how good those players were during that period shows that they can attain a level needed to compete at a high level and not completely discredit their ability to perform.

    This exemplifies how a good managers can make a bunch of average or potentially good players look top class. The team we had finished second last season and since Ole took over is on top of the league. A team that isn’t good should not be in such a position or have such a result. I don’t understand why a lot of United fans like to underrate our players. These same fans underrated McTominay and Fred before their recent performances.
  38. Apr 13, 2019

    Fanatic 00237 Full Member

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    Which should tell you how far behind our rivals we are in terms of the quality of the players and it’s no fault of Ole’s, I’ll put it down to the previous managers. Let’s watch him have a few transfer windows and a pre-season to build his own team to his image (thankfully there is no major international tournament this summer - well, apart from the African Cup of Nations).

    I get your love for Pochettino but, dude, that ship has sailed, at least for now. Let’s get behind Ole now and hope he succeeds. There is absolutely NO guarantee Pochettino will come in and win trophies at United immediately.
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
  39. Apr 13, 2019

    Lentwood Full Member

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    If you can watch this bunch of no-hopers, never have been's and never will be's and genuinely believe our team is on par with the likes of Liverpool and Chelsea then there's no helping you

    Stop this "Cult of the Manager" nonsense. You can't be this bad for four years under four managers because of "tactics". We have the 6th best squad in the league and we are 6th, it's as straightforward as that
  40. Apr 13, 2019

    pocco loco

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    Just going to say it, but a few of us got wise to the situation ages ago. The players are absolutely an issue, if anybody still thinks our managers are asking them to do certain things that are hampering us then you need your heads testing.

    Of course Ole is under scrutiny to an extent because he's not proven, but we need to see how we look with the right quality in the squad before we assess that. Because we know for sure now that the majority of this squad aren't good enough. Attack, Midfield and Defence. Just as I have always said. Jose didn't tell them to play like shit, Ole isn't either.