It's not the manager, it's the players

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by haram, Apr 3, 2019.

  1. Apr 14, 2019

    Tincanalley Turns player names into a crappy conversation

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2011
    Messages:
    6,190
    Location:
    Ireland
    I admire you making the case for this place as a Moan-Free-Zone. I fought that fight a good while. But the OP’s points are well made and thoughtful. Pointless moaning as in some match day threads, I agree. But. A blanket ban on any criticism would make no sense at all.
  2. Apr 14, 2019

    Buster15 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Messages:
    2,153
    Location:
    Bristol
    Supports:
    Bristol Rovers
    Accept that but I certainly don't believe that was the sole reason for the difference.
    The difference is primarily due to the players performing less well of late.
  3. Apr 14, 2019

    Tincanalley Turns player names into a crappy conversation

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2011
    Messages:
    6,190
    Location:
    Ireland
    Top post.
  4. Apr 14, 2019

    Denis79 Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2014
    Messages:
    2,824
    It's the foundation of the club that is the problem. If the people in charge of the club knew what type of football they want us to play, we would have never had the same amount of trouble, but it's obvious they don't have a vision in place for this club.

    We've hired 4 different managers since SAF retired, 4 managers with completely different playing styles. And each of them were given funds to rebuild. LvG wanted a posession style play for us and bought players that would fit his system, he got replaced by a manager who doesn't value possession and suddenly the players LvG bought simply wouldn't fit the new system. Now we've hired Ole who wants a lot of speed and movement, and suddenly players like Lukaku and Fellaini don't fit in anymore.

    Let's say Ole sells Lukaku, has sold Fellaini etc. Let's say he doesn't do well and gets replaced by a manager who wants a big strong striker upfront again, he wants a elbowing Fellaini as the nr 10. We rebuild a 5th time? No wonder we aren't progressing.

    If the people in charge had a vision or we had a DOF with a vision, we would have planned appointments and signings around where we want to be. And appointed managers who fit the vision/plan. Right now we're just stumbling in the dark hoping for a quick fix.
  5. Apr 14, 2019

    Tincanalley Turns player names into a crappy conversation

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2011
    Messages:
    6,190
    Location:
    Ireland
    But that’s not enough. To compete we need, what? We need a full-on revamp top down. Woody has to get his snout out of football related matters. If a DoF achieves that, OK, but my preference would be to see him take a different role in the club. Second. We need a few upgrades to the support team for the manager, especially with respect to coaching.

    We need a minimum of four new signings, done in a thought through, joined up, strategic manner, part of the overall plan for style and strategy.
  6. Apr 14, 2019

    Owen06 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2018
    Messages:
    180
    It's quite fascinating how things got so bad quickly.

    In the beginning of last season we were flying.we just signed one of the best Dm midfiielder in the league in matic,a prolific striker who was banging in the goals in lukaku,mikhitaryan and pogba were brilliant and who could possibly forget the famous martial and rashford rivalry at the left side of the attack,we were so good back then only city were on par with us.

    A year and few months later, matic is finished,pogba looks to be on his way out,de gea is error prone,lukaku can't hit a barn door over two attempts, inconsistent mikhitaryan gone and replaced with by an even more inconsistent Sanchez and worst of all, our golden boys martial and rashford seems to have been flattering to decieve.a real shame.

    Here's hoping for a massive clear out this summer.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 14, 2019
  7. Apr 14, 2019

    crossy1686 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    10,239
    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Then you will know exactly what I'm talking about when it comes to management and how difficult it can be. Some folk on here think it's black and white, no one understands the politics involved unless they've been in that position.
  8. Apr 14, 2019

    Cheesy Bread with dipping sauce Scout

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2011
    Messages:
    35,580
    Location:
    Scotland
    There are clearly some structural problems within the club, but this logic suggests our managers haven't each been terrible in their own right, and implies they haven't made lots of shocking decisions along the way. Moyes was never good enough for the job in the first place, LVG persisted with a style stubbornly that just wasn't working, even when it was patently obvious it wasn't working, and Mourinho's style of football was outdated to the point he imploded towards the end, something he's developed a tendency for doing in every single role he takes. Such failings are on said managers, even if the players haven't exactly helped.
  9. Apr 14, 2019

    Buster15 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Messages:
    2,153
    Location:
    Bristol
    Supports:
    Bristol Rovers
    Certainly agree with you on that one. Quite possibly I misunderstood your point.
    Funnily enough I was speaking with a friend today about the worst aspect of management. That being office politics in general and realising that some people see it as a game; quite literally.
    I had no respect at all for such people but unfortunately some played the game far more astutely than me.
  10. Apr 14, 2019

    M Bison Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2015
    Messages:
    3,252
    Location:
    In the Wilderness
    Supports:
    York City
    Funny though because the decline in all those just doesn’t happen over such a short period. It’s down to the manager to find their form and get them back playing how they should.

    We need to invest, no doubt about it, but we also need more from our existing players who I don’t believe have turned rubbish overnight.
  11. Apr 14, 2019

    crossy1686 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    10,239
    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    No worries, my original point was quite inflammatory anyway. Sounds like your situation was quite similar to mine actually. I always kept out of the politics but some people live for it. As you know, there are so many things going on behind the scene that we don't have access to, I can't imagine what the dressing room dynamic is but something isn't right back there and Solskjær has to do something about that as well as build a team and win games. Some people on here just think that when you swap a manager your results should improve instantly, because why wouldn't it? It's just football right? And if they don't improve, time for the next manager...
  12. Apr 14, 2019

    Chairman Steve Full Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2018
    Messages:
    950
    The main problem is we don’t know what to do onfield wise. There’s no set style of play therefore there’s no specific criteria for buying certain players.

    We got Moyes in seemingly because he’s a dour Glaswegian manager and therefore he’s a new Sir Alex? :houllier:

    Then we said feck that then went for reputation on LVG, who wanted a possession based football. He brings his own players in.

    Then we said feck it again and got in someone with even higher reputation, who wanted a completely different style to LVG. He brings his own players in.

    Now we got OGS after thinking reputation means feck all, and he wants a completely different style to the last two guys, with playing personnel bought in by 4 different managers all the way back to Sir Alex.

    It’s a clusterfeck of a squad.
  13. Apr 14, 2019

    steffyr2 Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    924
    I haven't been to these type of threads in a while, but I thought we were saying that our players were great and it was the horrible manager who was a) always saying mean things about them, and b) unable to get the best out of them.
    Of course, that was what we were saying with the last manager....what position in the table were we then vs now, btw?
    One thing we can definitely say is that the players know from experience that there's no down side for them if they play badly. We've proven that over the last many years.
  14. Apr 14, 2019

    Nucks Cuckoo

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2007
    Messages:
    4,344
    Mourinho's style isn't outdated, it just isn't "sexy", and his temperment turns his players against him.

    Mourinho plays a by the numbers style of football. He approaches almost every game like it's a CL away fixture, why? It gives you the best chance to take points from every match. This doesn't mean that his teams won't blow away weaker opposition, but it's a from the back first type of style. Incidentally, you will notice that the majority of mid-table/relegation fodder teams in all the top teams of Europe have adopted the Mourinho approach. Why? It gives them the best chance to maximize their ability to earn points through the season.

    If the style is outdated, why does almost every major team in Europe take this approach on their away legs in the CL? The issue isn't the style, it's Mourinho being an abrasive bastard who can't make friends, and ultimately sabotages his relationship with the team, or with enough of his team that they quit on him.

    Case in point, last season, with this squad of not-good-enoughs, we comfortably stroll to 2nd. What happened? He lost the team, the team gave up on him, and the team collapsed. Ole strolls in, the team starts playing again, and we get a predictable bump in performances, but then we end up figured out for the level we are, and frankly some of Ole's tactical choices/substitutions have been terrible and naive.

    The biggest result we've had? PSG away, and guess what, that was PROTOTYPICAL Mourinho ball. Defend deep and organized, and punish with direct quick counter attacks. That wasn't "United Way" That was, Mourinho way.
  15. Apr 14, 2019

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2002
    Messages:
    49,210
    I think that the issue is far more complex to be blamed on 1 person but lets not try to justify Mou's appointment which was a massive failure. He's the guy who spent 400m on mostly tripe & before saying that he suffered from sabotage lets not forget that the man got kicked out not from 1 job bu from three and that is after losing the dressing room in all three of them.

    The reality is that with so many donkeys in the team (Lukaku, Matic, Lingard, Bailly, Rojo, the failed wingers as fullbacks etc) Ole has absolutely no choice but to play the Mourinho's way. FFS you can count the players who has the talent to do something extraordinary on one hand.
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  16. Apr 14, 2019

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2002
    Messages:
    49,210
    Our players were never great but lets not forget who brought them here in the first place. Mou signed Bailly, he signed Matic, he signed Lukaku and Sanchez, he insisted on Young, Valencia. Fellaini and Rojo. He bought and then sold Mkhitaryan at warp speed. The guy spent 400m most of whom on tripe on ridiculous salary and despite such radical change he ended up losing the dressing in the same way he did with Chelsea and Real.
  17. Apr 14, 2019

    hobbers Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Messages:
    6,621
    The only real difference between Ole (SAF)'s style and Mourinho's is having more players breaking forward and full backs given more responsibility to overlap and hit crosses.

    In big CL games/big Prem away games the styles are basically identical. It's pragmatism pure and simple.
  18. Apr 14, 2019

    Buster15 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2018
    Messages:
    2,153
    Location:
    Bristol
    Supports:
    Bristol Rovers
    Completely agree. Dealing with people, especially those with big egos can be really difficult.

    The whole ethos of the team is far from ideal and has not deteriorated overnight.

    My biggest concern is that individually and sometimes collectively they seem to think that they can drop their standards with impunity and that is completely unacceptable.
    This may well not be what some want to hear but the difference between the attitude of the Liverpool players and ours is as different as night and day.
    Watching them against Chelsea is one of total commitment.
    Like the United under SAF. That attitude is long gone.
  19. Apr 14, 2019

    Bastian Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2015
    Messages:
    7,082
    It's hard to disagree. He needs time to make his own stamp though. But he's not been impressive tactically.
  20. Apr 14, 2019

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2002
    Messages:
    49,210
    United's decline started the moment the accountant aka David Gill took the job. At that point, we witnessed stars like Scholes, Giggs, Rio, Vidic and Ronaldo being replaced with the likes of Cleverley, Jones, Smalling, Young and Valencia. United kept winning because SAF was a genius and there was still some juice left in the old guard but we were doomed to failure. SAF in fact warned fans to brace themselves for a bumpy ride in his last speech.

    After United lost the man who could paper the crack, shit did hit fan. We were left with yet another money man who was expected to take football decisions despite having zero idea about football. Soon enough managers, agents and anyone linked to football learnt that United is lead by an amateur whom they could easily take for a ride. Which explains why so many managers brought their mates or short term buys meant not to build a dynasty but to keep them into the job as long as possible.

    The squad we're left with is a hot potch of 4 different philosophies all of which had failed big time. We spent so many millions with so little talent to show for.

    Our first move is to push Woodward out of the football side of things. We should bring in a top DOF and we should persuade SAF to take a more active role at board level. Juve have Nedved, Inter has Zanetti, Bayern has Uli, we should have SAF there. Once that is sorted then we need to clear the deadwood + any players who can't bother playing for us anymore. After that we need to do some serious rebuilding. I assure you it won't be nice to see and it will take us at least half a decade to bring United back on top
  21. Apr 14, 2019

    Cheesy Bread with dipping sauce Scout

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2011
    Messages:
    35,580
    Location:
    Scotland
    They'll adopt that style in individual games but that's different to applying it all the time, even if you're away to a team you should by rights be able to wipe out with the quality in your squad.

    And I'm not sure I completely agree with your assertion anyway. Last season's CL saw plenty of late comebacks and high-scoring fixtures in which top sides largely abandoned a cautious and defensive approach. Neither Real Madrid nor Liverpool played with a style that you'd associate with Mourinho and yet both were in the final. Similarly I'd argue the last non-attack minded team to win it were Chelsea in 12, and their win was largely a fluke. Before that it's Mourinho's Inter side in 10. Most sides now who win it either play dominant possession based football (typically Barca) or explosive counter-attacking football where they simply overwhelm opponents with the quality in their side. Neither style is one I'd particularly associate with the more cautious Mourinho.

    Perhaps 'outdated' is the wrong word because styles can be flexible, and the game is always evolving, but whereas before I'd argue defensively minded managers were often the norm at the top level of the game, now I'd say it's not so much the case. Simeone is the standout but then it's arguable circumstances force him to be because he's not got that much money to spend compared to other top sides - by contrast most of the big money sides who can afford to sign top quality players look to play some variation on attacking football. City, for example, often win by blowing their opponents away. Liverpool have improved defensively but still have a quality attack. Barca aren't exactly what you'd describe as defensively minded either.
  22. Apr 14, 2019

    Cheesy Bread with dipping sauce Scout

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2011
    Messages:
    35,580
    Location:
    Scotland
    I'm not sure Gill is at fault for any of this. The reason we weren't making big signings back then was because the Glazers weren't investing as much compared to the other big sides. That wasn't Gill's fault. By all rights Fergie rated some of the players you've mentioned like Cleverley, Jones and Smalling as future prospects, hence why he gave them regular football. Many of us were in agreement back then that they had the potential to be top class players. Similarly while Valencia and Young weren't necessarily world class, they were both good players here or elsewhere - Valencia consisted performed for us from 2009-12, and Young was a dynamic, talented winger when he joined from Villa who seemed to just be coming into his best years, and both wingers suited Fergie's approach.

    If anything, while he was still able to maximise his resources and win, Fergie didn't identify quite as many top players for minimal amounts of money as he did in the mid-2000s. You mention the replacement of players like Vidic and Ronaldo - but both of them were signed for peanuts when you consider what they gave us. And while Ronaldo's potential was evident, many would've suggested putting an 18-year old straight into the team as David Beckham's direct replacement wasn't exactly a sign that we were splashing the cash.
  23. Apr 14, 2019

    Murder on Zidane's Floor You'd better not kill Giroud

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    4,157


    Bilic makes great point around 9mins in about how it used to be players came to the manager, now the manager comes to the players.
  24. Apr 14, 2019

    KingMinger22 City >>> United. Moaning twat

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2005
    Messages:
    7,245
    Location:
    Chicago
    This is the worst United squad of my life time. It's definitely the players.
  25. Apr 14, 2019

    Walters_19_MuFc Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,073
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Mourinho was a very negative manager, and was no good for the team, however, we'd all be crazy to think that it was just the managers fault.

    Some of the current played aren't good enough, and until we start shipping them out or giving them less important roles, then we'll continue to be as inconsistent as we currently are.
  26. Apr 14, 2019

    United Hobbit Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2019
    Messages:
    266
    Source: https://www.transferleague.co.uk/ma...sh-football-teams/manchester-united-transfers

    List of players in since Sir Alex retires:

    2013/14:

    Guillermo Varela £2,400,000
    Marouane Fellaini £27,500,000
    Saidy Janko £700,000
    Juan Mata £37,100,000

    2014/15

    Vanja Milinković Undisclosed
    Ander Herrera £29,000,000
    Luke Shaw £27,000,000
    Marcos Rojo £16,000,000
    Ángel Di María £59,700,000
    Daley Blind £13,800,000
    Victor Valdez Free
    Sadiq El Fitouri Free

    2015/16

    Memphis Depay £25,000,000
    Matteo Darmian £12,700,000
    Morgan Schneiderlin £24,000,000
    Bastian Schweinsteiger £6,500,000
    Sergio Romero Free
    Anthony Martial £35,000,000
    Regan Poole £400,000

    2016/17

    Eric Bailly £30,000,000
    Zlatan Ibrahimovic Free
    Henrikh Mkhitaryan £30,000,000
    Paul Pogba £89,000,000

    2017/18

    Season 17/18
    Victor Lindelöf £31,000,000
    Romelu Lukaku £75,000,000
    Nemanja Matić £40,000,000
    Alexis Sánchez Swap


    I'm not going to type them all out but compared to the 2 teams challenging for the league:

    Liverpool- https://www.transferleague.co.uk/liverpool/english-football-teams/liverpool-transfers

    City- https://www.transferleague.co.uk/manchester-city/english-football-teams/manchester-city-transfers

    I'll be interested to see what Ole's signings will be, I think he will go for the cheaper, hungrier players however will Ed get in his way and insist on more Hollywood signings that are going to get him instant publicity?

    I am worried heading into next season, I can see some of what Jose was getting at, yes he didn't help the situation but the players are showing similar attitudes to some of his games in charge, the mentality is poor, they seem to be up for the bigger games but are borderline surprised when the smaller clubs arent just swept aside, the shakiness as soon as we concede a goal is beginning to annoy me, we have our backs to the walls as they take advantage and come at us again and again, forcing us into errors or last ditch desperate defending/ save from De Gea. I was expecting it to happen when Barca scored but for some reason it didn't (good it shouldn't) but you'd expect them to be more intimidated and shaky after a big club score not the smaller ones I really cant explain why it keeps happening. I also think we will beat City partly because of the awful event it will help towards becoming even more inevitable but also because I feel the players will turn up for it.

    I think we need to look at mentality a lot, plus fitness which obviously is something that cant be increased too much at this moment in time, I cant work out why the players dont seem to make intelligent runs or be on the same wavelength sometimes a fantastic pass will be played and they all look blankly or react too late by which time the ball is gone. Can that be coached or is it limitations of the players?

    Ole can do all the prep work but he cant make the players finish the chances. I think we will regret not taking our chances vs Barca we won't see them that bad again.

    I think we definitely need to give Ole a couple of transfer windows and a pre season however are we potential going to be in this same position say 2 years down the line saying why arent we in a better position for all that money spent. Unfortunately Liverpool have spent wisely lately and brought in players in positions they were weak in. It pains me to admit they were good signings. However look at some of our signings above- look good on paper so why haven't they worked out?

    I fear for us if we don't get champions league next season, if it's a battle between us and a club with CL over a player who has the greater incentive? Yes we got Pogba without it but will that be an exception? We cant even guarantee we will be back in it the season after, add to the fact they are signing for a relatively "unproven" manager, yes we are Manchester United but the name alone used to help draw players because they knew they would be part of a great side challenging for multiple honours- is our reputation strong enough anymore? Add to that the fact we have shot ourselves in the foot as they will all expect Sanchez money, agents will potentially have us over a barrel with contract negotiations and new signings. They will want what he is on or close to.

    I completely agreed with what Ole said after the Westham game, I'm glad he didn't try and sugar coat it and say the Moyes type comments of we were unlucky/ I thought we played well etc, however are the players going to like that? Tough if they dont they should play better however player power is too big nowadays look at Chelsea for another example. Social media and money dont help either. These players should try for Ole and want to improve with him, they were all quick enough to call for his appointment when everything was rosy, let's see what they do when the going is tougher. I think the PSG was a massive high however why not use that to add momentum for the other games? There will be no more magical CL comebacks next season if we dont get top 4. Also I don't think you can blame the poor form on appointing Ole officially before the end of the season as it started before he was officially announced.

    We also lack a leader, no one tries to stand up and be counted and try and rally the other players, imagine Keane allowing these sorts of performances around him. I would like to know what the players were saying in that huddle after Pogba's 2nd penalty, maybe he was trying to show leadership knowing Ole is looking for another captain? However will he be here next season? Clubs approaching our players and trying to sign them also isnt helping but again would that be happening if we were near the top of the league?
  27. Apr 16, 2019

    sugar_kane Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,454
    Feel sorry for Ole tonight, can’t believe how badly we shit the bed tonight.
  28. Apr 16, 2019

    Cliche Guevara Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Messages:
    2,466
    Location:
    Inverness
    It is the players. It was always the players.
  29. Apr 16, 2019

    Chairman Steve Full Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2018
    Messages:
    950
    The guy who constantly fecks up and the guy who rarely fecks up, fecked up and sunk the world so to speak.

    Before that we looked fairly decent.
  30. Apr 16, 2019

    Catt Ole's at the wheel!

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    16,379
    Location:
    Norway
    :lol: sorry but this made me laugh.
  31. Apr 16, 2019

    liamp Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2015
    Messages:
    1,029
    This summer, someone will make a thread akin to "It's not the manager, it's (the board/Ed)"

    That thread will be bumped throughout next season.

    In 1.5-2 years, if/when Ole's on the outs, someone will make a thread akin to "It's not (the players/the board/Ed), it's the manager"

    That thread will be bumped throughout the honeymoon period with the next manager

    In 2-2.5 years, if/when we're in a lull under the next manager, someone will make this thread again and we'll just keep repeating the cycle.
  32. Apr 16, 2019

    M Bison Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2015
    Messages:
    3,252
    Location:
    In the Wilderness
    Supports:
    York City
    If that’s the case why did we get rid of Jose? We should have just bought new players.

    The manager has to shoulder some of the responsibility in my view.
  33. Apr 16, 2019

    Abhinav Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2017
    Messages:
    159
    Because he was the one who bought the players.
  34. Apr 16, 2019

    M Bison Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2015
    Messages:
    3,252
    Location:
    In the Wilderness
    Supports:
    York City
    The players looked more than good enough a few weeks ago but now look like they can’t be bothered.

    I’m not for a second advocating Jose by the way, my point is that it’s the managers job to get more from the players which Ole initially did, and now it looks like we’ve run out of steam.
  35. Apr 16, 2019

    #07 makes new threads with tweets in the OP

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2010
    Messages:
    16,706
    This squad needs to be fully torn to pieces. Its poor. We're playing a centre half at right back and a failed winger at left back, with a whole host of defenders on our payroll collecting cash for nothing. Nothing displays our bloated, low quality squad more.
  36. Apr 16, 2019

    AndyJ1985 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    8,954
    Fully agree. Buying 2 or 3 players every summer is not going to get us anywhere. Over the course of 8 years we've accumulated a squad full of mentally weak players who lack the talent to match their ego's. It's now become a festering mess that needs taking to landfill. Rip it up and start building a youthful squad who are hungry for success
  37. Apr 16, 2019

    Infra-red Full Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    7,335
    Location:
    left wing
    People wondered why Mourinho played with a defensive-minded system - look at the players he was having to protect. Mentally weak and woefully short on quality.
  38. Apr 16, 2019

    #07 makes new threads with tweets in the OP

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2010
    Messages:
    16,706
    Its depressing. Its hard to make a case that we've properly replaced a single player from the 2012/13 squad. Despite the money can we really say that anyone that's come in is as consistent as the player that went out? Do we have a better right back than Rafael? Do we have a better right winger than Nani? Do we have a better centre midfielder than Carrick? It gets worse every season. We're giving renewals to Rojo and Young, holding onto the likes of Darmian. What the hell is the idea? God only knows.
  39. Apr 16, 2019

    Abhinav Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2017
    Messages:
    159
    Thats the story of last 2 years. Our player are inconsistent and don’t have maturity and quality to apply themselves on a regular basis. When Ole was appointed the players wanted to prove that Jose was at fault and gave their all. Coupled with a relatively easy fixture list and some luck along the way, we went on a good run. It was never going to be sustainable and now we need to have a really good summer to improve in key areas.
  40. Apr 16, 2019

    M Bison Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2015
    Messages:
    3,252
    Location:
    In the Wilderness
    Supports:
    York City
    Agree, and thats my point really, it’s not all the players, it’s both the managers and players who are at fault.