Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Samid, Oct 17, 2015.
Dont bite guys, he is fishing.
Net spend does matter. If you sell for 400 million players and buy 400 million players it's not a given that your team is improved. If you bring in players for 400 million without selling any then most likely your squad will be improved. It's not rocket science really.
When we sold Ronaldo and lost Tevez, we bought in Valencia and michael owen. We had spent some money, but was the team improved? No, we had a negative netspend and did not bring players able to replace the ones that left.
So if Solskjaer sell some player for 40 million and sign only 1 player for say 50 million, do we ignore all the spending by previous manager and say "Ole did fantastic job by spending nothing" or do we consider the squad value?
This is what happened with managers like Klopp and Poch. All the money spent 1 or 2 seasons before he was hired is ignored.
No course of not, it's just that netspend matters in the context. Klopp did not take over an amazing squad, but has spent his money well and has his team in the title race and progressing in CL again.
I don't think anyone says that Zidane is the best manager of all time because he won 1 liga and 3 CL's in a row without spending a dime, because everyone knows he took over one of the best if not the best squad in the world that didn't need investment.
Yeah, so he took over a team that spent around 250 million in last 2 seasons and this was before Neymar deal. He had a player who was worth 150 million or 1 club stupid enough to pay so much for 1 player. why should he get credit for Coutinho when it was Rodgers who signed him?
If we are talking about Liverpool, yeah. They did really well in market with buys and sales but why should Klopp get credit for player he didn't sign?
We should pack it in boys. We'll face a Liverpool domination for years to come. It's not enough they have the best players in world for every position.
It will be so sweet if they end up with nothing this year. All this cocky Liverpool fans will disappear for a while. Honorable exception to the likes of @Klopper76 and...
Well that's about it.
Also, why does anyone care about net spend? Honestly, if it's that important to people they should be more interested in the general financial profits/losses of their club and realise transfers aren't happening in some weird vacuum. Having pride in Klopp having a lower net spend because Liverpool sold Coutinho is the same as a Man Utd fan referencing a huge sponsorship agreement that dwarfs Liverpool's - it's irrelevant.
What matters broadly speaking is how a team plays (Klopp gets a tick here), how much money a manger spends on signings and how those signings do (another tick) and, most importantly, what they win (which is where Klopp fires a blank).
I'm not giving him credit for signing coutinho since he didn't. It's just that the money, he has spent, he has spent well. Try and look at the difference Salah and mane makes for their teams compared to Lukaku, who was much expensive.
Mourinho also took over an expensive team by Van Gaal, but still had to splash the clash to improve it. It's up to debate how succesfull his transfers are.
You also have to taken in account with Liverpools spending before Klopp, they have sold players like Suarez and Sterling for big fee's. At the time anyway.
Yeah but saying Klopp spent 400 million really well is different from Klopp didn't spend much money because of net spend.
Your last point, I have already said if we are talking about Liverpool then yeah well done for doing well in transfer market. Nothing to do with Klopp and his net spend.
Because all clubs apart from the very richest work on a budget. I don't think it's about pride in having a low netspend, it's just that being succesfull while having a low net spend shows more about the managers ability to get the best out of his players and fx the manager of PSG who spend 200 million on neymar and 160 million on mpabbe. It's not a great achievement winning the league when you have blank check book to buy the best players.
Klopp hasn't got a low net spend. Their first 11 also costs near half a billion ffs. Their starting 11 cost more than Madrids in the final last year as well. They were, by far, the biggest spenders in England last year as well.
None of this logic applies to Klopp.
It's mind boggling. You should see the love in for him on the main thread. A loser manager. Actually not even a loser manager. A never even in it manager.
The football gods had been generous towards Liverpool. Maybe They had been thinking "Well I think They're alright, let's give them more chances to win trophies" until someone like you posted this kind of crap and They turned around and said "Nope, feck you, it's the water I'm telling you".
I'm going to quote this when you are getting knocked out of the CL. Your biggest chance of winning it was last season and you fecked it up.
I agree with the last part, that's something that irks me about people who praise Pep so much. He's the equivalent of me playing FM with unlimited funds. Also why Leicester's PL win was so special & why Mou's Cl wins with Porto and Inter were so good.
When assessing managers, the most accurate way for me is to simply look at their spending & results. Did they improve a team or not? Have their signings done well? Klopp has been backed massively the transfer market but it seems Liverpool fans are a bit ashamed of this - they should be proud that their club is able to compete (sort of) with City and that they have brought in players for huge sums like VVD. That's what football is these days, no one gives a hoot about how much a player costs it's just about results.
This is how I feel about Pep. He is sort of a luxury manager, you let take him over the best squad in the world and give him unlimited backing in the transfer market and he will take the team to another level and make it the best in the world or in history. This does not diminish his achievments, he's obviously one of the best if not the best coach in the world.
However could he do what klopp did with Dortmund and is doing with Liverpool, or do what Mourinho did with Porto and Inter. Add in Simone at Athletico. I don't think we will ever find out, because it seems he prefers to take jobs, where it nearly impossible not to hit the ground running and win trophies because of the squad he inherits and the riches that he has to spend.
Zidane seems to be same atm. Unless there is a prospect of instant succes, he doesn't seem attracted. Which you can't blame neither Pep or Zidane. All great managers want to win trophies the easy way. Klopp seems to be a bit different in that he wants the challenge of making semi great clubs like Dortmund and Liverpool great again rather than opting for the easy option.
Either you really don't get why United fans love him or you're on a wum.
I'd go with the latter, for sure.
That would be my guess too.
Real Madrid have a low spend, because their bought all their best players before the market when crazy. Liverpool are also performing with the investment. Yes they havn't won any trophies, but at least they are in the race for the biggest trophies.
Our Man Utd side is one of if not the most expensive side assembled in history and look what's that got us. Our only arguably world class players are De gea and Pogpa. That's it really. We havn't spent well. Klopp has.
Your name should read as “Dumpster” because that’s where your post belongs.
Per your logic, a loser manager or like you said a never in it Manager like Pep, Zidane and even your very own Klopp who’s famous for winning sweet feck all should have never been hired by their respective clubs when they began their career full time.
And this never in it manager has amassed more points in the league since he joined than Klopp.
Here’s where I use the green smilies too
What I find impressive about him is, that he’s challenging for the PL and CL with a midfield of Henderson, Wijnaldum and Millner. How is that even possible? He has his faults, but that’s just good managing.
The Liverpool fans really have the wind behind their sails these days.
See, these type of delusions are the reason why almost the entire footballing world unites against them whenever they come within a shot of the title. The idea of their delusions actually being fed by some real achievement is rather horrible to contemplate.
As deluded as 95% of the United fans at caf. It's the posters of the other clubs who contribute to the thoughtful and enjoyable posts here.
Yeah sure mate.
Ray of hope for us
NetSpend is only relevant to the smaller clubs who are forced to sell their players in order to remain in the black. The bigger clubs, such as Liverpool, turn a profit through merchandising, match-day revenue, broadcasting rights, sponsorship and claiming the prize-money for winning trophies - admittedly, that last one does not apply to Liverpool.
Point being, Liverpool can and will spend vast sums of money in the transfer market regardless of players sales.
Man United isn't the barometer here. I'd also add we have some fantastic players thats been mismanaged but that's a seperate point. I'm also not arguing he hasn't spent the money well? What does spending it well got to do with it?
Plus if you're going down the new era of spending route then Klopps net spend is bullshit because he sold Coutinho during this crazy market which padded his sales record.
You can't have it both ways. Klopp could field Allison, VVD, Kieta and Fabinho alone which has cost them almost a quarter of a billion pounds.
Whats the argument here? Its not a crime to spend money and Klopp has. It's idiotic to try to water that down as if he's this miracle worker on a budget.. The Ox, Salah, Firminho and Mane cost as much as our forward line. He tried to add Fekir to that in the summer as well!
Remember when they tried for Lemar for 70 odd million?
Klopp isn't operating in the bargain bins here.
You had ONE shot on goal against United’s reserves two weeks ago, mate.
You are clearly ignorant of the facts.
Jose was sacked for a wide variety of reasons - it was a miracle he survived as long as he did. Do some research if you wish to learn more about it.
Fabinho is the main man in our midfield now.
Also, Milner and Wijnaldum seem to be running out of steam. Hopefully Hendo can keep up his form and then hope that Keita/Lallana/Chamberlain can get us over the finish line.
Gini seems to be an automatic starter despite being quite poor in most games lately though.
I'm not really sure what we are arguing about anymore. Klopp has needed to spend to challenge for league title against one of the best pl teams in history. And he also managed to make a CL Final. No he's not working on a shoe string budget, but he also doesn't have silly money like City or PSG, nor the prestige of man utd, barcalona and Madrid.
He proved at Dortmund, he could win titles and challenge for CL without spending big.
Anyway I don't know what, we are disagreeing about anymore. Even though Klopp is a Liverpool manager, I still rate him as one of the best in world. That's it really. He was my favourite to suceed SAF and we got Moyes, van gaal and Mourinho instead.
Even though you don't win trophies every year, finishing 2nd in finals and in the league is still a better achievement that sitting midtable and being knocked out in the group stages.
So yeah, Klopp has won sweet feck all at Liverpool yet Mourinho who won us a glorious EL and league cup while finishing 6th has rightly been sacked because he was taking us nowhere.
Well, he should be. Didn’t understand why Fabinho didn’t start. But if he and Keita should finally break through into the first team consistently, that’s a pretty good midfield. Overall, all you need right now would be another centre back and ideally a midfielder who’s somewhat of a threat in front of goal. That team is pretty close to becoming really good. Not there yet, but almost.
You were praising him for a low net spend as if he's Poch or somebody,
Klopp spends money, that's just how it is. He rarely goes for the cheap option and there's nothing wrong with that.
No amount of goal posting net spend periods or what he did a decade ago really changes that.
He has lower netspend than City and is taking the title race to the wire as well as knocking them out of the CL last year. Also knocking out Bayern Munich is pretty good. But yeah, he hasnt spent a pittance, but he's doing very well with what he has unlike Mourinho and Van Gaal. I was mentioning his Dortmund days because he was competing very well against Bayern Munich who had a massive advantage in very possible way. He's already proven, he can win trophies the hard way with Dortmund. We've yet to see if he will with Liverpool, but I personally can't blame him if he loses out to City.
I have very little time or respect for him. He's a good winner and a terrible loser that acts like a child when a result doesn't go his way. He's the biggest excuse maker and of the most ridiculous excuses. It's probably one of the reasons he's never been able to manage a side to remain on top and hasn't won anything in years because he probably justifies all the failures to his players rather rather than seek ways to win.
It wasn't even well disguised.
Absolutely. Pesky Pool fans I tell ya
Net spend again... 400m spent to strengthen is not comparable to 250m spent to strengthen and 150m to replace lost quality. If you want to compare, compare squad cost, not money spent. Still not ideal way to measure, but closer.
I see no manager who would do better for our club with our limitations. He elevated us from irrelevant to contenders for major honours w/o blank chequebooks. With competition this tight, not many managers could have achieved this.
You guys are not competing for major trophies for quite some years now. If Ole doesn't turn out to be another SAF, you will soon need a manager to do what Klopp did to us. And when you find one, you will not care whether he's talking bs, sniffs his balls or whatever.
P.s. Hope Ole is there to stay for you, he seems to set you up to play proper football.
Net spend is not only for selling clubs dude. What kind of stupid comment is that. The guy spent money because he made the money from sales. Klopp sold Coutinho who is beyond over-rated and couldn't fit in his system to buy players that did and look where they are now. Pretty smart move tbh.
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