Jadon Sancho

Discussion in 'Transfer Forum' started by Adnan, Feb 17, 2019.

  1. May 16, 2019

    minh_loc_xoay New Member

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    Then don't go crying about how we didn't target him when we lose him to City/Real/Barca next summer.
    Remember the Griezmann story? People were so convinced that he just stayed to help Atletico out of the hard times and he'd come to us in the following summer. Then what?
  2. May 16, 2019

    Adnan Full Member

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    I hope the club signs Chiesa this summer if Sancho isn't available. We can still move for Sancho next summer and play Sancho and Chiesa on either side. Signing Chiesa would be huge as far as i'm concerned and would be a big upgrade on the RW.
  3. May 16, 2019

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    Quantity over quality again hey? Brilliant.
  4. May 16, 2019

    lewwoo Full Member

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    We will lose him to another team if we dont go for him this summer. We need to spend big this summer. Spent hardly anything last year so the money must be there to get in Sancho plus sort other areas.
  5. May 16, 2019

    Adam-Utd Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid

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    With Zaha handing in a transfer request at palace, this could be the perfect circle for us. Dortmund seems the logical place for Zaha to move too unless he wants to stay in England.
  6. May 16, 2019

    Lash Full Member

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    This would be my ideal scenario, actually reduces the fee for Sancho inadvertently as well. I'm not sure I see Zaha leaving the UK though, he seems a bit precious in that aspect.
  7. May 16, 2019

    Adam-Utd Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid

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    He did sign up to play for Ivory Coast so maybe he's not so bothered by that after all. I think everybody has seen the recent success of young English lads going to Germany and doing well, he would thrive in a setup like Dortmund IMO.

    Anyway
  8. May 16, 2019

    Anustart89 Full Member

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    Remind me, how many £100m players did City buy in order to finish on or close to 100 points two seasons in a row?

    If I had to choose, I'd rather have five good, well-scouted £50m players this summer than two £100m+ players, because there are just so many holes in our squad.

    Look at what's happening with Pogba, we're surrounding him with shit and before we can build the rest of the team up he's already looking to leave because we didn't sign anyone good to play with him.
  9. May 16, 2019

    Rozay Master of Hindsight

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    Well he is Ivorian tbh.
  10. May 16, 2019

    minh_loc_xoay New Member

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    I guess Liverpool is playing the price for splashing massive money on VVD and Alisson after all...
  11. May 16, 2019

    Adam-Utd Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid

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    He could have easily chosen to play for England too, that's my point. He's clearly not afraid to get outside of England (where he's lived all his life).
  12. May 16, 2019

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

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    He was born in the Ivory Coast but moved here as a small child. He did play for England and that was his first choice but after he wasn't called up for three years he decided to go with the IC as they had been after him for ages.

    My guess is that he'll want to stay in London.
  13. May 16, 2019

    Anustart89 Full Member

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    They had already filled the majority of the first XI with non-premium-priced quality like Salah, Mané, Wijnaldum, Robertson, Matip, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Keita had been signed but hadn't joined yet.

    At that point they were plugging specific holes in the squad, and went for quality in those select positions. We have two players in the squad that are of the quality that we aspire to be. Hypothetically, what happens if we buy Koulibaly and Sancho for a combined £200m and can't afford anything else? We'd be doing shit because we'd still be playing Young at RB, Matic in CM and Rashford up front. In that scenario, Sancho's going to leave for Real and we'll be back where we started. This is the exact scenario that's playing out with Pogba right now, if you haven't noticed. If he goes we're going to have to replace his 30 goal contribution to end up at this shitty point that we're at right now. Good fecking luck with that.
  14. May 16, 2019

    Lash Full Member

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    That's basically like a free holiday to Ivory Coast every year! It's not the same as upping sticks to live in Dortmund...
    Agreed, from what I've heard he's extremely settled here. He basically lives around where he grew up.
  15. May 16, 2019

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    Remind me, how well have we done with these these scouted players bought for circa £50mil? Fred, Matic, Alexis, Micky Targaryen would all fit your profile, and yet have been an unmitigated disaster.

    Players need to be considered on an individual basis. He may cost a fortune, but you're buying a player that, like Pogba, has a decades worth of football in them at the highest level, and, like Pogba, if sold would at the very least retain their value, if not turn a profit.

    He plays in a position we sorely need to fill, and one that happens to be have a real dearth in quality available. We shouldn't be looking at signing players because they are reasonably priced, we should be signing players because they what we need. Liverpool spent £150m on two players and it transformed their season because they were the right players for them.
  16. May 16, 2019

    Anustart89 Full Member

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    Don't get me wrong, I'd love for us to get Sancho, but not if our transfer budget is limited to the extent that signing him is going to impact our chances of strengthening the team to the extent that we need.

    If we're completely realistic, we need at least five starting players (CM/CDM/RW/RB/CB) of high quality to compete for top four next season, which is where we want to be. If buying Sancho limits us to two signings this year, then we'll still need three next season (four if Pogba's gone by then). Limiting our spending on two top players every year will just see us have a merry-go-round of top players coming in, only for the previously signed top players to want to move due to lack of quality in the rest of the team.

    Of course, we can't go around spending £50m a pop on shit like we have done, but like City and Liverpool have shown, it's very possible to buy real quality from all over the world for £50m. That could see us getting four players on a £200m budget, plus anything we bring in from sales would be used on top of that. That's a scouting issue though, not a matter of quality being impossible to find for those amounts. I didn't scout them so I don't know why you're blaming me for the Mkhitaryans and Freds.

    Like I said, Liverpool spent £150m (not really but let's not argue that point) on two players because they had already built their squad and those were the two holes that needed plugging. If you want to compare us to Liverpool, you should look at their transfer business since Klopp came in, because that's where we're at. We're not at the point in terms of squad building that Liverpool were a year ago, and if you think that you're deluded. We need to fill pretty much the entire team with quality, and that's simply not feasible to do in two transfer windows if you're only looking in the absolute top department of players where you pay £100m for each and every one of them and have to pay them Sanchez wages to get them to join since we're not in the CL.
  17. May 16, 2019

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    It is, and I'm not suggesting every one of our signings needs to be £100m. Sancho fits the profile of player we need perfectly, and there really aren't that many alternatives that are going to have the same impact as he.

    Getting 3 players on a 200mil budget, on the proviso those players are the players we need, will be far more beneficial long term than signing 4 slightly inferior players on a similar budget whom we will be looking to upgrade in a few years time. We need to look at this again as a marathon.

    I think you're being disingenuous if you think we need 5 players to finish above a Chelsea side likely to lose Hazard and to incur a transfer ban, and the perennial underacheivers in Arsenal. I'd much prefer us to invest in the highest quality over a 2/3 year period, allow our talented youth players room to breath and develop, and be in a stronger position then as opposed to looking for yet another quick fix.
  18. May 16, 2019

    romufc New Member

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    Actually, Liverpool signed VVD, Allison, Fabinho, Keita and Shaqiri.. they needed a holding mid as well, so out of the 5 signed 4 are actually starters...
  19. May 16, 2019

    Anustart89 Full Member

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    Problem is though that if you get Sancho for £120m or something like that (remember, Dembele was sold for even more and he forced a move, I think £100m is a very conservative guess with regards to Sancho's price), then only £80m remains from your £200m budget. At that point, even if you want three players to come in, you're looking in the £40m bracket. Three players is nowhere near enough IMO. If we sign three players, we're going to play some well below-par players next year too, who will then be another year older. Assume we use £200m to sign Sancho, Wan-Bissaka (or another right back) and Bruno Fernandes, we'll still have one of dumb and dumber in defence, we'll still have Matic jogging around behind the midfielders, we'll still have Martial and Rashford up front, hoping that they finally kick on and (in Rashford's case) hope that the selfishness will magically disappear.

    Given the choice, I'd rather we buy Chiesa/Pepe/another cheaper player who fits the desired profile and who can be developed into playing across the front line if that means that we can buy a CB and a CDM on top of RB/CM. That way, we'll have a much better equipped squad and we can come back in for Sancho next year if RW is still a hole that needs to be plugged. I do agree that RW has been a much-neglected position over the years, but our lack of a proper right-sided attacking player is IMO not the main reason we're playing like eleven individuals and it's definitely not the reason we're leaking goals.
  20. May 16, 2019

    Anustart89 Full Member

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    But the point is that they didn’t sign everyone for £100m because they wouldn’t have been able to buy that many players. The majority of signings were in the £50m bracket and then after the main project of building the squad was done they started plugging holes with players from the top bracket.

    People here are suggesting the exact opposite approach, while forgetting that £100m players aren’t going to wait around forever for the project to be complete.
  21. May 16, 2019

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    These budgets tend to be more arbitrary than that. If we had to spend an additional 5/10% on a player then that doesn't necessarily mean that money wouldn't be available elsewhere. As long as we get the players in we need, and the club see the signings as financially prudent, then we will stretch to accommodate Ole.

    If 3 players is no where near enough, then four players can't be enough either. You can't fix this team over night. We've tried to do that repeatedly, and it's failed. It's a myopic way of thinking. We shouldn't be looking to sign players to get back into the top four that we will have to upgrade later, we should be looking to sign players that can help us compete for the highest honours when we are in a position to do that. Sancho falls into that category. If he's available now then let's get him now. We've put a pin in signings before and other clubs have jumped the queue. I don't want to sign a Pepe now, and then have to sign a Sancho that may or may not be available in 2 years time to get to the next level.

    As I've said, top 4 isn't going to be impossible if we don't bring in half a new starting XI. Despite an abomination of a season we all still feel we should made it after 5/6 weeks of having Ole. Chelsea are going to be in trouble next year, and that just leaves a very inconsistent Arsenal side to contend with.
  22. May 16, 2019

    Anustart89 Full Member

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    Of course, I realise that it’s not a hard £200m, but what I’m saying is that we need a big squad shake-up. We not only need a first team capable of playing one way, we need the reserves to be able to play the same way. We saw what happened when we played well with Rashford, Lingard and Martial up front, and then it was equally obvious what happened when they got injured and their replacements were Sanchez, Mata and Lukaku.

    My only point is that if you’re going to rebuild the squad with £100m players, and say 7-8 of them, in every position then it’ll take a minimum of three years to complete that project. If we’re looking at competing for the title in three seasons, that’s fine with me as long as there’s a coherent strategy, but the problem is that I can’t see Pogba waiting around languishing in 4th/5th/6th and hoping that Chelsea and Arsenal get worse. That means that during that period, we’re going to have to replace his output as well, which will cost money and not be a guarantee. And we’re also going to have to spend money to replace De Gea as well, whereas a strategy where we revamp the starting xi this season with 5/6 signings might actually get us far if we get the right players, which might improve our chances of holding onto the players that we don’t want leaving. Then we can go for Sancho next year.
  23. May 16, 2019

    Rusholme Ruffian Full Member

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    Willing to bet that part of Sancho's issue is that he's wondering (like the rest of football - and even most United fans if they are honest with themselves) how long Ole is going to be in charge for. There's a huge question mark over what is going to happen next season, and can totally understand players having doubts about committing in that climate. It could potentially be years before we make the CL again.

    I know it all turned to shit, but contrast that with the summer that Mourinho came in - Pogba signed for us even though we had no CL. There was nowhere near the feeling of chaos and doubt that there is this summer.

    I just pray we don't sign a load of substandard second-rate players just cos we can't get our first or second choices.
  24. May 16, 2019

    passing-wind Full Member

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    Does Sancho have it in him to replicate his success this season in the next ? Many Bundesliga players have had breakout seasons and then been significantly reduced the next. Latest example is contingent with Leon Bailey / Pulisic / Dahoud.

    I actually don't see Sancho at another English club with exception to one of the London clubs. Aside Chelsea who could afford he's asking price between Spurs and Arsenal ? Dembele to me is boardline a generational talent (especially when he was at BVB) but Sancho to me seems outstanding for his age but not in the same bracket as a Mbappe / Dembele, closer to the likes of Vinicius Junior (50mill). Sancho is clearly the better player but he's certainly not three times Juniors value. Anything over 100 million would be daylight robbery.
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  25. May 16, 2019

    Bwuk Full Member

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    Sancho has been better at Dortmund than Dembele ever was. Not sure why anyone would have Dembele over him.
  26. May 16, 2019

    U-N-I-T-E-D New Member

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    I’m very much of the opinion that we should curtail the £100m transfers being touted about and spend nearer £40-50m on players that will work hard and are well suited to our system but....

    Sancho is the exception for me. He’ll fit in the 4-3-3 system that Ole played early on before the players were knackered and would slot in really well. He’s young, local and would make an impact.

    Sounds like he wasn’t to come to the club but is understandably wary. The transfer fee is fine with me as long as we don’t give him massive wages and re-fcuk-up our wage structure if Sanchez leaves.

    We may have a budget of around £200m but that will likely be bolstered by some players going, especially if the likes of Martial, Lukaku or Pogba go
  27. May 16, 2019

    Aloysius's Back 3 New Member

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    The thing I like most about Sancho is his ability to play on both wings as a more traditional winger - reminds me of Ribery type player than a forward like C. Ronaldo.

    For that reason I'd love to see him play centrally & let him decide to overlap in whichever wing opens up behind 2 strikers. Think that would really suit a counter attacking team.
  28. May 16, 2019

    U-N-I-T-E-D New Member

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    I get what you’re getting at but that does sound a bit Mourinho - he’s awesome on either wing... let’s stick him in the middle
  29. May 16, 2019

    BlueHaze Full Member

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    Don't know how reliable The Independent are but they are saying that Sancho doesn't want to come here now that we are without CL football. We were willing to pay over £100m but talks have now collapsed.
  30. May 16, 2019

    RooneyLegend Full Member

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    He has a higher upside.
  31. May 16, 2019

    Bwuk Full Member

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    Don’t agree at all.

    Dembele doesn’t have the mentality to cut it, I don’t think he’ll get all that much better than he is. Sancho seems much more driven.
  32. May 16, 2019

    sullydnl Ross Kemp's caf ID

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    Aye, I can respect a decision not to come here this summer. I'd require serious convincing if I was him.

    If we're looking to sign big money premium talents, what can we offer them right now? Money, obviously, but then we don't necessarily want players who come here just for the money. No CL football and no chance of winning the league next year, so no major trophies in the immediate term. Success in the medium term? Pfff, you'd be taking a big chance on Solskjaer and Woodward really turning things around which is pretty risky. Playing alongside top players, not so much, especially as our two most talented players could be leaving this summer. Playing for Manchester United is still a big deal, sure, but if you're a premium talent you'll believe you can make it to other giant clubs anyway or make your way here next season.

    We're basically asking him to be part of what our own manager has publicly stated is a three/four year rebuild, in which case a shrewd player might wait to see what year one looks like first before committing.

    The solution of course is to find the right players who aren't in that premium bracket, as Liverpool did with signings like Mane, Robertson & Firmino. Players for whom moving to United even in this transition period would still be a big step up, who also have the talent to potentially be part of title winning side in a few years. Quality signings are still there to be got, it's just about identifying those players and using them in a coherent way. If you manage that and get the rebuild going then it becomes easier to entice more in-demand talents in subsequent years.
  33. May 16, 2019

    Cassidy No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser

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    Probably right on mentality, but Dembele is still young he can mature. Talent wise Dembele has the higher ceiling, but right now Sancho looks like he will go further due to mentality (however that can change)
  34. May 18, 2019

    WPMUFC Full Member

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    Here's the simplest answer based off the BBC report.

    We can get him because Dortmund are a selling club. The problem is that he doesn't want to walk into a 4-5 year contract with our club resembling a clown car. We are step back (right now) for him. Thus, we won't have a "raiola throwing chairs moment". The player will not push for the move.

    He will stay with Dortmund, see if we get top 4, and then the following season he could be our priority target.
  35. May 18, 2019

    minh_loc_xoay New Member

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    By that point it would be too late. Real, Barca, City, PSG...may have already convinced him. This situation has the writing of another Mbappe story: You either get him when he's at Monaco, or look at him being snapped up by the powerhouses after we spent too much time "analysing".
  36. May 18, 2019

    shahzy New Member

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    Agreed with this sentiment. Fact of the matter is this team needs its guts ripped out and completely replaced and as rich as we are, we don't have enough money to spend to get 5-6 players worth 100mil each. Rather get 5 Very good players at 50mil each than 1-2 exceptional/high potential players. They should be the cherry on the top of the cake as Pogba should have been but wasnt due to terrible recruitment
  37. May 18, 2019

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

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    If the right player costs 100 million then so be it. The same people who want to spread out the cash among 20 goodish players will be the ones complaining a year on about how we don't have that elite quality the top teams have. If you can sign that class for 40 million of course you do. But you don't forgo an absolutely top class talent for far lesser ones due to the latter being cheap.

    IMO there isn't a more perfect signing for our attack than Sancho. He ticks every single box of what we lack in wide areas. These are signings you go overboard for rather than the bloody Fred's of this world.
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
  38. May 18, 2019

    Fridge chutney Full Member

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    He's choosing us over anyone else in England? Nailed on. Lube me up.
  39. May 18, 2019

    In Rainbows Full Member

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    I think people forget how much we've gone for those cheaper under the radar players and how often they've been duds. Our best buys have been the ones where we spend a good amount on young talent.

    De Gea - Highest transfer fee for a teenage gk at time of purchase
    Martial - Highest transfer fee for teenage player at time of purchase
    Shaw - Highest transfer fee for teenage defender at time of purchase
    Pogba - Highest transfer fee at time of purchase

    Now people have a right to not like those mentioned players, but objectively they've been our most successful buys.
  40. May 18, 2019

    RedCurry Full Member

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    By then he could be a forgotten man too. Players don’t realize the importance of taking the opportunity when it comes sometimes. But staying at Dortmund if most likely the best thing for his career.